Smooth had a couple of blocks but he was completely dominated in the post by Dwight Howard whos offensive game is just starting to develop. Darko also took it to Smith on the low block!!!
We need to get bigger there is no way we can win with a 6'8 4. Josh is a three and we just need to accept that we have 2 pretty good young 3s in Smith and Williams!!!!!
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Orl Game should Kill the Smith as a 4 Talk!!!!!!!!
Started by LastDon, Apr 11 2006 07:39 AM
99 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 08:17 AM
Yah, 6'9" guys can't defend the post.... that's absurd. He's 20 years old and he's been in the NBA for not quite two seasons. He has all the physical tools to be a shut down defender at the forward position as well as having the desire to play defense. The only thing he lacks is experience. Everyone is so damned knee jerk around here.
#3
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 08:37 AM
[indent]Quote:
Yah, 6'9" guys can't defend the post.... that's absurd. He's 20 years old and he's been in the NBA for not quite two seasons. He has all the physical tools to be a shut down defender at the forward position as well as having the desire to play defense. The only thing he lacks is experience. Everyone is so damned knee jerk around here.
[/indent]
Agreed. He will be a much better post defender than say Antoine Walker who was an All-Star as a PF in Boston.
I think Josh is clearly showing he can be a stud SF but it is way too early to determine whether he can play PF.
Yah, 6'9" guys can't defend the post.... that's absurd. He's 20 years old and he's been in the NBA for not quite two seasons. He has all the physical tools to be a shut down defender at the forward position as well as having the desire to play defense. The only thing he lacks is experience. Everyone is so damned knee jerk around here.
[/indent]
Agreed. He will be a much better post defender than say Antoine Walker who was an All-Star as a PF in Boston.
I think Josh is clearly showing he can be a stud SF but it is way too early to determine whether he can play PF.
#4
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 09:10 AM
[indent]Quote:
[indent]Quote:
Yah, 6'9" guys can't defend the post.... that's absurd. He's 20 years old and he's been in the NBA for not quite two seasons. He has all the physical tools to be a shut down defender at the forward position as well as having the desire to play defense. The only thing he lacks is experience. Everyone is so damned knee jerk around here.
[/indent]
Agreed. He will be a much better post defender than say Antoine Walker who was an All-Star as a PF in Boston.
I think Josh is clearly showing he can be a stud SF but it is way too early to determine whether he can play PF.
[/indent]
I don't think there is any question as to whether he could be a 4 on defense. Rather the question is where is his optimal position. So far it looks like he is naturally a 3. That may change in time but right now the 3 is defintely his best position.
[indent]Quote:
Yah, 6'9" guys can't defend the post.... that's absurd. He's 20 years old and he's been in the NBA for not quite two seasons. He has all the physical tools to be a shut down defender at the forward position as well as having the desire to play defense. The only thing he lacks is experience. Everyone is so damned knee jerk around here.
[/indent]
Agreed. He will be a much better post defender than say Antoine Walker who was an All-Star as a PF in Boston.
I think Josh is clearly showing he can be a stud SF but it is way too early to determine whether he can play PF.
[/indent]
I don't think there is any question as to whether he could be a 4 on defense. Rather the question is where is his optimal position. So far it looks like he is naturally a 3. That may change in time but right now the 3 is defintely his best position.
#5
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 09:17 AM
So you want to hang Smoove hat on being a better defender than one of the worst defenders and biggest tweeners in the game? I'm shocked you didn't go after Toni Kukoc or Big Dog while you were at it.
He got muscled and abused last night.. period.
And for Chillz youth Argument... Dwight Howard and Darko or younger than Smoove. What happens when they really develop their offenses???
Instead of us making excuses, let's just take the facts that we know. Smoove has the potential to truly dominate the Sf position and be help from the backside. Instead of trying to play to Smoove's weaknesses and hope that he develops, let's try playing to his strengths. Like I said yesterday, Smoove does nothing similar to most good PFs.
He got muscled and abused last night.. period.
And for Chillz youth Argument... Dwight Howard and Darko or younger than Smoove. What happens when they really develop their offenses???
Instead of us making excuses, let's just take the facts that we know. Smoove has the potential to truly dominate the Sf position and be help from the backside. Instead of trying to play to Smoove's weaknesses and hope that he develops, let's try playing to his strengths. Like I said yesterday, Smoove does nothing similar to most good PFs.
#6
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 09:27 AM
[indent]Quote:
...Instead of trying to play to Smoove's weaknesses and hope that he develops, let's try playing to his strengths. Like I said yesterday, Smoove does nothing similar to most good PFs.
[/indent]
No emergency this year...but I have to agree. Smoove looks to me like a young impact player at the 3. You can almost sense some frustration in his game already (due to lack of assistance on defense and inability to get calls). If the Hawks just hang him out at the 4 and hope for the best they may be in for trouble in the longterm (IMHO).
After seeing Diaw go to Phoenix and make good and Delk rise like a Phoenix from the ashes off of the Hawks bench, I would think other GMs will make a mental note for the future and look to snag our guys once their contract years roll around.
...Instead of trying to play to Smoove's weaknesses and hope that he develops, let's try playing to his strengths. Like I said yesterday, Smoove does nothing similar to most good PFs.
[/indent]
No emergency this year...but I have to agree. Smoove looks to me like a young impact player at the 3. You can almost sense some frustration in his game already (due to lack of assistance on defense and inability to get calls). If the Hawks just hang him out at the 4 and hope for the best they may be in for trouble in the longterm (IMHO).
After seeing Diaw go to Phoenix and make good and Delk rise like a Phoenix from the ashes off of the Hawks bench, I would think other GMs will make a mental note for the future and look to snag our guys once their contract years roll around.
#7
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 09:37 AM
MY thought is this...
Get Smoove some defensive help... in the form of JO.
I think there's a deal to be made.
This would solidify our post offense and defense.
The other part of my plan is a Marvin swap for either TJ Ford or Deron Williams. Milwaukee needs a swingman in the worst way and they have Mo Williams and Charlie Bell looking really good. Utah also have other PGs... and they could use a highly tauted Sf because Harpring is on his way out.
This isn't a fly by night plan. This plan gets all of our pieces solid.. Especially with a game time player like JO anchoring our offense and defense. It would only my JJ one of the best SGs in the game.
Lastly... Can't you just imagine TJ Ford blazing pass defenses...!!!!
Get Smoove some defensive help... in the form of JO.
I think there's a deal to be made.
This would solidify our post offense and defense.
The other part of my plan is a Marvin swap for either TJ Ford or Deron Williams. Milwaukee needs a swingman in the worst way and they have Mo Williams and Charlie Bell looking really good. Utah also have other PGs... and they could use a highly tauted Sf because Harpring is on his way out.
This isn't a fly by night plan. This plan gets all of our pieces solid.. Especially with a game time player like JO anchoring our offense and defense. It would only my JJ one of the best SGs in the game.
Lastly... Can't you just imagine TJ Ford blazing pass defenses...!!!!
#8
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 09:52 AM
having two 6'9" forwards on defense doesn't not imply a liability. Josh smith likes to play defense, Marvin likes to play defense. They are both long players and they will both get stronger. There is no reason that either or both of these guys can't be excellent defenders are EITHER forward position, both on the wing and in the paint.
Their positions on offense don't really mean anything in the discussion. I've seen smooth get burned by SF's as well. So if we go by the knee jerk one game reaction, he can't really guard anyone at either position! Now, we know that's not true. But if I wanted to use the same knee jerk logic that people throw around here, I could say it and nobody could dispute it.
as I said, if you want to talk offense, having two All-star caliber SF's is NOT a bad thing. THey would create matchup nightmares across the board. As long as one or both of them have the ability to go into the post on occasion, it simply does not matter. Neither of them have to become pure post players. All they need to do is become comfortable enough down there to operate. So this whole "trying to change what works" crap doesn't even apply. We don't have to try and change either player. Because BOTH of them should and likely will develop reliable post moves, though that will never be their primary role. It doesn't take a lifetime or a 200 IQ to develop reliable post moves.
Their positions on offense don't really mean anything in the discussion. I've seen smooth get burned by SF's as well. So if we go by the knee jerk one game reaction, he can't really guard anyone at either position! Now, we know that's not true. But if I wanted to use the same knee jerk logic that people throw around here, I could say it and nobody could dispute it.
as I said, if you want to talk offense, having two All-star caliber SF's is NOT a bad thing. THey would create matchup nightmares across the board. As long as one or both of them have the ability to go into the post on occasion, it simply does not matter. Neither of them have to become pure post players. All they need to do is become comfortable enough down there to operate. So this whole "trying to change what works" crap doesn't even apply. We don't have to try and change either player. Because BOTH of them should and likely will develop reliable post moves, though that will never be their primary role. It doesn't take a lifetime or a 200 IQ to develop reliable post moves.
#9
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 09:52 AM
[indent]Quote:
So you want to hang Smoove hat on being a better defender than one of the worst defenders and biggest tweeners in the game? I'm shocked you didn't go after Toni Kukoc or Big Dog while you were at it.
He got muscled and abused last night.. period.
[/indent]
Yeah. I do. Walker played PF on playoff teams and made multiple All-Star appearances in Boston. He also played center while he was there. Walker wasn't a great defensive PF by any stretch of the imagination but he also wasn't somebody that got abused and gave up more points than he scored like Big Dog. Why could Walker play PF but Smoove not be able to play there? The simple answer is that Josh is going to be able to effectively defend PFs when he is stronger in a few years.
I agree that that doesn't mean he necessarily should play PF, though. I am taking a wait and see approach as to his development before deciding on that. For now, he is a rising stud SF who can play minutes at PF.
He clearly is not developed enough that he can handle powerful PFs like Howard, Amare, etc. He does much better on PFs like KG, Dirk, etc. (although they are good enough to get their points against him and everyone else too).
Unfortunately, we don't have anyone on our roster who can stay with someone as physical as Howard. That has to be a top priority for this team in the offseason.
So you want to hang Smoove hat on being a better defender than one of the worst defenders and biggest tweeners in the game? I'm shocked you didn't go after Toni Kukoc or Big Dog while you were at it.
He got muscled and abused last night.. period.
[/indent]
Yeah. I do. Walker played PF on playoff teams and made multiple All-Star appearances in Boston. He also played center while he was there. Walker wasn't a great defensive PF by any stretch of the imagination but he also wasn't somebody that got abused and gave up more points than he scored like Big Dog. Why could Walker play PF but Smoove not be able to play there? The simple answer is that Josh is going to be able to effectively defend PFs when he is stronger in a few years.
I agree that that doesn't mean he necessarily should play PF, though. I am taking a wait and see approach as to his development before deciding on that. For now, he is a rising stud SF who can play minutes at PF.
He clearly is not developed enough that he can handle powerful PFs like Howard, Amare, etc. He does much better on PFs like KG, Dirk, etc. (although they are good enough to get their points against him and everyone else too).
Unfortunately, we don't have anyone on our roster who can stay with someone as physical as Howard. That has to be a top priority for this team in the offseason.
#10
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 09:54 AM
[indent]Quote:
MY thought is this...
Get Smoove some defensive help... in the form of JO.
[/indent]
I like that idea a lot. JO would give this team a lot of what it is missing in terms of post defense and offense. I'm not as big on TJ Ford.
MY thought is this...
Get Smoove some defensive help... in the form of JO.
[/indent]
I like that idea a lot. JO would give this team a lot of what it is missing in terms of post defense and offense. I'm not as big on TJ Ford.
#11
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:07 AM
[indent]Quote:
...The simple answer is that Josh is going to be able to effectively defend PFs when he is stronger in a few years...
[/indent]
That's why the Hawks need somebody to play PF for the next few years unless we want to continue getting hurt in the paint. Also, somebody's got to play the defensive PF position, if you stick JS with that when he's not physically ready you risk messing up a potentially great 3 to have a mediocre 4 for the next few years. It doesn't seem to be worth it to me.
A solid 4 like JO for the next three years or so would make perfect sense.
...The simple answer is that Josh is going to be able to effectively defend PFs when he is stronger in a few years...
[/indent]
That's why the Hawks need somebody to play PF for the next few years unless we want to continue getting hurt in the paint. Also, somebody's got to play the defensive PF position, if you stick JS with that when he's not physically ready you risk messing up a potentially great 3 to have a mediocre 4 for the next few years. It doesn't seem to be worth it to me.
A solid 4 like JO for the next three years or so would make perfect sense.
#12
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:16 AM
At the beginning of the season that extra weight hurt Josh's game, it took away some of his explosiveness. Alot of people forget that at the beginning of the season the plan was to make Josh a 4 thats why he gained weight and we had Al to lose Weight.
When Josh trimmed back down that is when his game took back off playing the 3. Why would you guys want him to be a 4 and he shoots a low percentage compared to other 4s. When does he ever post up his whole game is perimeter oriented.
When Josh trimmed back down that is when his game took back off playing the 3. Why would you guys want him to be a 4 and he shoots a low percentage compared to other 4s. When does he ever post up his whole game is perimeter oriented.
#13
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:21 AM
look like an allstar. He was shooting over the top of our guys with ease with that sweet lefty touch. To be honest I'm shocked by Darko's defensive awareness. That sequence when he blocked one of our guys shot and then recovered to block Josh Smith's thunderous dunk was amazing.
#14
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:23 AM
This is stupid. Dwight Howard was the #1 pick in the draft for a reason. You have to also consider that they are best friends and Howard has probably been schooling Smoove since they were 5 years old. Geez
#15
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Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:36 AM
[indent]Quote:
At the beginning of the season that extra weight hurt Josh's game,
[/indent]
Huh? Josh weighed 228 at the 2004 combine. He said he was 240 to start the season. Twelve pounds in a year and a half isn't a big weight gain at that age.
At the beginning of the season that extra weight hurt Josh's game,
[/indent]
Huh? Josh weighed 228 at the 2004 combine. He said he was 240 to start the season. Twelve pounds in a year and a half isn't a big weight gain at that age.
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