[northcyde]

Because everytime these players play like ish, that's always the excuse. This team just straight up collasped and got outworked on the frontline. This doesnmt have a DAMN THING TO DO WITH COACHING.

It's a shame that people don't put the responsibility where it belongs.

When your frontline plays soft, and your guards turn the ball over time and time again, that's not coaching folks. It ain't the offense either, because they were running the same ish in the first half that they were running in the 3rd quarter. It's just that the Lakers turned the intensity WAY UP, and we didn't even come close to matching it.

LOL . . . what a 3rd quarter by the World Champs.

Having said all of that, you only have 24 hours to cry about this game. In the NBA, there's no way in hell you can dwell on a performance like this.

[TheTruth]

Sigh northcyde. We ALL know you have major love for Woodson...I have never known anyone to love Woody as much as you.

However, this was a terrible game all the way around. I have said my peace in other threads, so I won't say much here. The TEAM let us down tonight.

[EazyRoc]

The players let us down. I'm sure that sequence of turnovers wasn't a part of Woodson's gameplan. Up until then, we were very much in the game.

[hawksfanatic]

The players certainly played like crap, but why didn't we foul at the end of the game? I'm not saying we would have won, but its a situation that could help you prepare for future games. Your players get into the habit of playing a certain way at the end of the game, might as well start it off right by putting the Lakers on the line and stopping the clock.

[thefloydian]

Terrible thread.

[Hotlanta1981]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 05:30 AM, said:

Because everytime these players play like ish, that's always the excuse. This team just straight up collasped and got outworked on the frontline. This doesnmt have a DAMN THING TO DO WITH COACHING.

It's a shame that people don't put the responsibility where it belongs.

When your frontline plays soft, and your guards turn the ball over time and time again, that's not coaching folks. It ain't the offense either, because they were running the same ish in the first half that they were running in the 3rd quarter. It's just that the Lakers turned the intensity WAY UP, and we didn't even come close to matching it.

LOL . . . what a 3rd quarter by the World Champs.

Having said all of that, you only have 24 hours to cry about this game. In the NBA, there's no way in hell you can dwell on a performance like this.

Who gives a damn if they beat Portland or not? It's meaingless in the grand scheme of things.

[thecampster]

EazyRoc, on 02 November 2009 - 12:51 AM, said:

The players let us down. I'm sure that sequence of turnovers wasn't a part of Woodson's gameplan. Up until then, we were very much in the game.

On the don't blame Woody question.

3 games into the season we are giving up 105 ppg with a "defensive" minded coach.

Either it's the scheme's fault or he's lost the players willingness to execute the scheme. Either way, that's not a good sign.

The biggest issue tonight though is this......in the first two games we forced the ball inside and let the big men dominate the game. tonight comparing the top 4 big men (horf, josh, joe smith, williams) to the top 4 guards (bibby, johnson, teague, crawford) the stats show we reverted to being a guard dominated team.

Guards - 24-47 shooting, 9 assists, 15 rebounds
bigmen - 10-30 shooting, 11 assists, 21 rebounds

When the guards are taking almost 60% more shots and dishing out less assists than your bigs, that is a problem. The bigs were obviously somewhat active with 21 rebounds (though that shows how few opportunities they had for boards..the lakers made everything and defensively their guards made it to the lane all night.). But when your top assists man is Josh Smith AGAIN, you have a problem.

What i saw all night was the guards dominating the ball and not trying to get it into the hands of the bigs with them in position. Lots of one on one and not looking up to start the offense down low like we did in the first game. The shots offered don't lie.

in the wizards game it was 40 - 34....closer and in indiana, 38-40. I saw all last year a definite difference in how the team played, with how much the guards dominated the ball. First 2 games it was 78-74 in favor of the guards. this game...47-30...that is a monstrous difference. you can not win without balance.

This post has been edited by thecampster: 02 November 2009 - 12:17 AM

[Deeman]

Lol at the title of this thread.

[northcyde]

EazyRoc, on 02 November 2009 - 05:51 AM, said:

The players let us down. I'm sure that sequence of turnovers wasn't a part of Woodson's gameplan. Up until then, we were very much in the game.

Exactly. Now THAT'S "the truth".

Woody called 2 timeouts in that damn quarter, and it still didn't help. Once the Lakers started to really push our guys around, they just folded. Coaching can't prevent guys who don't like to be pushed around, from folding up like a tent. I'm mainly talking about Marvin and Smoove tonight.

But I guess all of that is Woody's fault I guess. I'm sure he's taking the brunt of the blame on RealGM, ESPN, and on the AJC blog comments. Him and probably JJ, for not scoring 40 to help us win.

LOL . . this team scores 110 points on the road and still loses. They should've saved some of those points for Portland.

Oh well . . no time to cry during the NBA season. We got 4 more games just this week.

[High5]

If performances like this happen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again the coach has to be somewhat accountable. Woodson is an incompetent head coach and/or he doesn't have the respect of his players. That's a problem. It has been a problem for a long time now. This was just a terrible game all around so I'm not going to waste anymore time posting about.

[northcyde]

hawksfanatic, on 02 November 2009 - 06:02 AM, said:

The players certainly played like crap, but why didn't we foul at the end of the game? I'm not saying we would have won, but its a situation that could help you prepare for future games. Your players get into the habit of playing a certain way at the end of the game, might as well start it off right by putting the Lakers on the line and stopping the clock.

Foul at the end of the game? Why? So we could lose by MORE POINTS?


This isn't college basketball, in which you have the 1 and 1. If you miss that first free throw, you can rebound the ball and go the other way. In college, when you reach the free throw foul penalty ( 7 fouls ), a team gets to shoot the 1 and 1 until the opposing team reaches the 10th foul. After that, they get 2 shots no matter what.

The NBA is vastly different. Once a team reaches 5 fouls, the opposing gets to shoot 2 free throws . . no matter what. And in the NBA, most of the guards who will handle the ball in late game situations, are at least 80%+ free throw shooters.

That's why you hardly ever see an NBA team excessively foul at the end of games. It's pretty much useless. It's almost an unwritten rule that if you're down more than 8 points with a minute to go, that the opposing team isn't going to foul you to extend the game.

[EazyRoc]

thecampster, on 02 November 2009 - 12:16 AM, said:

On the don't blame Woody question.

3 games into the season we are giving up 105 ppg with a "defensive" minded coach.

Either it's the scheme's fault or he's lost the players willingness to execute the scheme. Either way, that's not a good sign.

The biggest issue tonight though is this......in the first two games we forced the ball inside and let the big men dominate the game. tonight comparing the top 4 big men (horf, josh, joe smith, williams) to the top 4 guards (bibby, johnson, teague, crawford) the stats show we reverted to being a guard dominated team.

Guards - 24-47 shooting, 9 assists, 15 rebounds
bigmen - 10-30 shooting, 11 assists, 21 rebounds

When the guards are taking almost 60% more shots and dishing out less assists than your bigs, that is a problem. The bigs were obviously somewhat active with 21 rebounds (though that shows how few opportunities they had for boards..the lakers made everything and defensively their guards made it to the lane all night.). But when your top assists man is Josh Smith AGAIN, you have a problem.

What i saw all night was the guards dominating the ball and not trying to get it into the hands of the bigs with them in position. Lots of one on one and not looking up to start the offense down low like we did in the first game. The shots offered don't lie.

in the wizards game it was 40 - 34....closer and in indiana, 38-40. I saw all last year a definite difference in how the team played, with how much the guards dominated the ball. First 2 games it was 78-74 in favor of the guards. this game...47-30...that is a monstrous difference. you can not win without balance.

Joe was hot, so naturally those numbers are going to be guards in the Hawks favor. Do you want to know the real reason we didn't get our big men the looks like we did in the last 2 games ? Because Washington and Indiana don't have a frontline anywhere near as good as the Lakers..even without Pau Gasol. So of course the guards are going to get a lot of shots, and for most of the game it was working. Until all the players, including the big men, started getting careless with the basketball.

This post has been edited by EazyRoc: 02 November 2009 - 12:33 AM

[RedDawg#8]

You can tell this team has come a long way when we are arguing about an 8 point Road loss against the World Champs and the greatest player in the NBA post-Jordan era.

Unfortunately I didnt get to watch the game so I cant comment on effort and heart and things like that, but after the way the Lakers lost their previous game at home, I figured we'd be a long shot to win this no matter what, they are the better team on any day but they were esp motivated coming in to this game, had they not lost the other day, I coulda saw us pull this one out but they simply were not gonna let themselves lose back to back games at home, Im just glad they didnt get blown out, and it actually looks like a close game (on paper).

[EazyRoc]

We could have won this game if it wasn't for the turnovers. The Hawks were uncharacteristically careless with the basketball and paid the price for it.

[Hotlanta1981]

RedDawg#8, on 02 November 2009 - 06:35 AM, said:

You can tell this team has come a long way when we are arguing about an 8 point Road loss against the World Champs and the greatest player in the NBA post-Jordan era.

Unfortunately I didnt get to watch the game so I cant comment on effort and heart and things like that, but after the way the Lakers lost their previous game at home, I figured we'd be a long shot to win this no matter what, they are the better team on any day but they were esp motivated coming in to this game, had they not lost the other day, I coulda saw us pull this one out but they simply were not gonna let themselves lose back to back games at home, Im just glad they didnt get blown out, and it actually looks like a close game (on paper).

It was a 20 point game in the 3rd period. This game WAS a blow out.

[Sasquatch]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 04:30 AM, said:

Because everytime these players play like ish, that's always the excuse. This team just straight up collasped and got outworked on the frontline. This doesnmt have a DAMN THING TO DO WITH COACHING.

It's a shame that people don't put the responsibility where it belongs.

When your frontline plays soft, and your guards turn the ball over time and time again, that's not coaching folks. It ain't the offense either, because they were running the same ish in the first half that they were running in the 3rd quarter. It's just that the Lakers turned the intensity WAY UP, and we didn't even come close to matching it.

LOL . . . what a 3rd quarter by the World Champs.

Having said all of that, you only have 24 hours to cry about this game. In the NBA, there's no way in hell you can dwell on a performance like this.

Too late.

I already trashed him.

That said...

Dude, you gotta send a message when Josh comes out chunkin... and Dozer (marvin) comes out snorin'

I do not care if you have to put Othello Hunter in or Randolph Morris. We gettin trounced any way. Let them know that if it's gonna be ugly like this, they ain't gonna dictate it.

'preciate the thread though... needed to be discussed

[volman]

The Hawks will never win another game this season I guess.

Doom and gloom here we come.

Guys, the Hawks didn't play a terrible game...but they did turn the ball over way too much. That's the end of the game right there... None of this, "the guards shoot too much---the bigs need touches" stuff. The Hawks just plain old lost tonight. Time to get over it and move to the next game.

[northcyde]

thecampster, on 02 November 2009 - 06:16 AM, said:

On the don't blame Woody question.

3 games into the season we are giving up 105 ppg with a "defensive" minded coach.

Either it's the scheme's fault or he's lost the players willingness to execute the scheme. Either way, that's not a good sign.

The biggest issue tonight though is this......in the first two games we forced the ball inside and let the big men dominate the game. tonight comparing the top 4 big men (horf, josh, joe smith, williams) to the top 4 guards (bibby, johnson, teague, crawford) the stats show we reverted to being a guard dominated team.

Guards - 24-47 shooting, 9 assists, 15 rebounds
bigmen - 10-30 shooting, 11 assists, 21 rebounds

When the guards are taking almost 60% more shots and dishing out less assists than your bigs, that is a problem. The bigs were obviously somewhat active with 21 rebounds (though that shows how few opportunities they had for boards..the lakers made everything and defensively their guards made it to the lane all night.). But when your top assists man is Josh Smith AGAIN, you have a problem.

What i saw all night was the guards dominating the ball and not trying to get it into the hands of the bigs with them in position. Lots of one on one and not looking up to start the offense down low like we did in the first game. The shots offered don't lie.

in the wizards game it was 40 - 34....closer and in indiana, 38-40. I saw all last year a definite difference in how the team played, with how much the guards dominated the ball. First 2 games it was 78-74 in favor of the guards. this game...47-30...that is a monstrous difference. you can not win without balance.

So let me get this straight. The guards shot 51% FG, and the bigs shot 33% . . yet . . you want the bigs to get more shots? LOL.

You know why the bigs didn't get the shots in this game? It's because they played SOFT and weren't nearly as aggressive as they normally are. Horford at least tried, but Marvin and Smoove were non-existant. The frontlines of Indiana and Washington are some of the softest in the league. That's why our guys were aggressive against those guys.

As for Josh Smith, he got 2 or 3 assists in the 4th quarter, when the game was already decided. Overall, he played like straight garbage tonight, mainly because he didn't even come close to matching the effort of Odom. Add Marvin to that garbage list too, because he didn't show up at all.

Matter of fact, up until the last 2 minutes of the game, JJ was leading this team in points, rebounds, and assists. Why is your 2-guard leading the team in rebounding, when we have one of the most athletic frontlines in the league?

And some of you wonder why JJ looks mad or emotionless all the time.

But go ahead. Put blame on the coach for the 4 minute collapse that decided the game.

(( shaking my head ))

[northcyde]

Hotlanta1981, on 02 November 2009 - 06:05 AM, said:

Who gives a damn if they beat Portland or not? It's meaingless in the grand scheme of things.

You have to walk before you can run. We're past the crawling stage, so next is "walking". Before expecting to beat the Lakers on their home court, we need to beat a team like Portland first on their home floor. If they can consistently do that, maybe it will better prepare them against the BIG 3 and the top teams in the West.

[High5]

volman, on 02 November 2009 - 05:39 AM, said:

The Hawks will never win another game this season I guess.

Doom and gloom here we come.

Guys, the Hawks didn't play a terrible game...but they did turn the ball over way too much. That's the end of the game right there... None of this, "the guards shoot too much---the bigs need touches" stuff. The Hawks just plain old lost tonight. Time to get over it and move to the next game.

Compare our third quarter with some Washington Generals footage and see if you can tell which team is losing on purpose. The Hawks most definitely played a terrible game. It's not doom and gloom, it's just passionate fans wanting to see this team take that next step.