90 replies to this topic

[Sasquatch]

northcyde, on 01 November 2009 - 11:30 PM, said:

Because everytime these players play like ish, that's always the excuse. This team just straight up collasped and got outworked on the frontline. This doesnmt have a DAMN THING TO DO WITH COACHING.

It's a shame that people don't put the responsibility where it belongs.

When your frontline plays soft, and your guards turn the ball over time and time again, that's not coaching folks. It ain't the offense either, because they were running the same ish in the first half that they were running in the 3rd quarter. It's just that the Lakers turned the intensity WAY UP, and we didn't even come close to matching it.

LOL . . . what a 3rd quarter by the World Champs.

Having said all of that, you only have 24 hours to cry about this game. In the NBA, there's no way in hell you can dwell on a performance like this.

Too late.

I already trashed him.

That said...

Dude, you gotta send a message when Josh comes out chunkin... and Dozer (marvin) comes out snorin'

I do not care if you have to put Othello Hunter in or Randolph Morris. We gettin trounced any way. Let them know that if it's gonna be ugly like this, they ain't gonna dictate it.

'preciate the thread though... needed to be discussed

[volman]

The Hawks will never win another game this season I guess.

Doom and gloom here we come.

Guys, the Hawks didn't play a terrible game...but they did turn the ball over way too much. That's the end of the game right there... None of this, "the guards shoot too much---the bigs need touches" stuff. The Hawks just plain old lost tonight. Time to get over it and move to the next game.

[northcyde]

thecampster, on 02 November 2009 - 12:16 AM, said:

On the don't blame Woody question.

3 games into the season we are giving up 105 ppg with a "defensive" minded coach.

Either it's the scheme's fault or he's lost the players willingness to execute the scheme. Either way, that's not a good sign.

The biggest issue tonight though is this......in the first two games we forced the ball inside and let the big men dominate the game. tonight comparing the top 4 big men (horf, josh, joe smith, williams) to the top 4 guards (bibby, johnson, teague, crawford) the stats show we reverted to being a guard dominated team.

Guards - 24-47 shooting, 9 assists, 15 rebounds
bigmen - 10-30 shooting, 11 assists, 21 rebounds

When the guards are taking almost 60% more shots and dishing out less assists than your bigs, that is a problem. The bigs were obviously somewhat active with 21 rebounds (though that shows how few opportunities they had for boards..the lakers made everything and defensively their guards made it to the lane all night.). But when your top assists man is Josh Smith AGAIN, you have a problem.

What i saw all night was the guards dominating the ball and not trying to get it into the hands of the bigs with them in position. Lots of one on one and not looking up to start the offense down low like we did in the first game. The shots offered don't lie.

in the wizards game it was 40 - 34....closer and in indiana, 38-40. I saw all last year a definite difference in how the team played, with how much the guards dominated the ball. First 2 games it was 78-74 in favor of the guards. this game...47-30...that is a monstrous difference. you can not win without balance.

So let me get this straight. The guards shot 51% FG, and the bigs shot 33% . . yet . . you want the bigs to get more shots? LOL.

You know why the bigs didn't get the shots in this game? It's because they played SOFT and weren't nearly as aggressive as they normally are. Horford at least tried, but Marvin and Smoove were non-existant. The frontlines of Indiana and Washington are some of the softest in the league. That's why our guys were aggressive against those guys.

As for Josh Smith, he got 2 or 3 assists in the 4th quarter, when the game was already decided. Overall, he played like straight garbage tonight, mainly because he didn't even come close to matching the effort of Odom. Add Marvin to that garbage list too, because he didn't show up at all.

Matter of fact, up until the last 2 minutes of the game, JJ was leading this team in points, rebounds, and assists. Why is your 2-guard leading the team in rebounding, when we have one of the most athletic frontlines in the league?

And some of you wonder why JJ looks mad or emotionless all the time.

But go ahead. Put blame on the coach for the 4 minute collapse that decided the game.

(( shaking my head ))

[northcyde]

Hotlanta1981, on 02 November 2009 - 12:05 AM, said:

Who gives a damn if they beat Portland or not? It's meaingless in the grand scheme of things.

You have to walk before you can run. We're past the crawling stage, so next is "walking". Before expecting to beat the Lakers on their home court, we need to beat a team like Portland first on their home floor. If they can consistently do that, maybe it will better prepare them against the BIG 3 and the top teams in the West.

[High5]

volman, on 02 November 2009 - 12:39 AM, said:

The Hawks will never win another game this season I guess.

Doom and gloom here we come.

Guys, the Hawks didn't play a terrible game...but they did turn the ball over way too much. That's the end of the game right there... None of this, "the guards shoot too much---the bigs need touches" stuff. The Hawks just plain old lost tonight. Time to get over it and move to the next game.

Compare our third quarter with some Washington Generals footage and see if you can tell which team is losing on purpose. The Hawks most definitely played a terrible game. It's not doom and gloom, it's just passionate fans wanting to see this team take that next step.

[Hotlanta1981]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 12:49 AM, said:

You have to walk before you can run. We're past the crawling stage, so next is "walking". Before expecting to beat the Lakers on their home court, we need to beat a team like Portland first on their home floor. If they can consistently do that, maybe it will better prepare them against the BIG 3 and the top teams in the West.

The rebuilding started for this team like 5 or 6 seasons ago. So need to talk about how you have to walk before you can run. Did Boston have to walk before they could run? Does LA have to walk before they can run? Does the Spurs have to walk for they run? A team shouldn't take 8 seasons to develop. This team still does a lot of the same things they did 3 years ago. Plus, the teams best player is pushing 30 and everybody else is still a role player. The Hawks have a roster full of role players and they're not going to reach the elite teams. Period. This team missed it's shot to have a player to build around when they drafted Marvin Williams.

Blame Woodson? No blame Billy Knight. This team will end up just as Memphis did. Remember that team that won 50 games but never got anywhere in the playoffs? The only reason this team did was because they were playing the one player team in Wade. This team was went as far it can go, and that is laid at the feet of Billy Knight.

Edited by Hotlanta1981, 02 November 2009 - 12:57 AM.

[RedDawg#8]

The Lakers were a lottery team after Shaq left town, it took what 5-6 seasons to climb back to a championship level, that with them being the Yankees of basketball

so yes, they had to wak first too.

Bos bought a championshi teamp, we are trying to grow one

but yeah, I jus saw how we got dominated in the 3rd but atleast we fought back.... a little. Heck, I had a good day so its hard for me to upset about this loss right now, sorry guys.

[northcyde]

High5, on 02 November 2009 - 12:26 AM, said:

If performances like this happen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again the coach has to be somewhat accountable. Woodson is an incompetent head coach and/or he doesn't have the respect of his players. That's a problem. It has been a problem for a long time now. This was just a terrible game all around so I'm not going to waste anymore time posting about.

It wasn't a terrible game all around. This team played decent in the first half. But once the Lakers started turning up the heat, we simply folded.

This mainly happens against the teams with strong and active frontines. It only happens over and over and over against those types of teams. Smoove and Marvin can't access their He-Man powers from the crowd, when we're on the road.

If those dudes wouldn't have collapsed for a 4 minute stretch, we could've stayed within 10 and maybe had a shot at the end to possibly win.

But go ahead and use the cop out excuse, and blame Woody. God forbid the players take total responsibility for a loss.

[Hotlanta1981]

RedDawg#8, on 02 November 2009 - 12:59 AM, said:

The Lakers were a lottery team after Shaq left town, it took what 5-6 seasons to climb back to a championship level, that with them being the Yankees of basketball

so yes, they had to wak first too.

Bos bought a championshi teamp, we are trying to grow one

but yeah, I jus saw how we got dominated in the 3rd but atleast we fought back.... a little. Heck, I had a good day so its hard for me to upset about this loss right now, sorry guys.

The Lakers have had like 1 losing season in 15 years. This team just had it's first winning season in 10 years. And 5 seasons? More like 3.

This team isn't even close to growing a championship team. The parts aren't here. Too many blown draft picks.

[High5]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 01:01 AM, said:

It wasn't a terrible game all around. This team played decent in the first half. But once the Lakers started turning up the heat, we simply folded.

This mainly happens against the teams with strong and active frontines. It only happens over and over and over against those types of teams. Smoove and Marvin can't access their He-Man powers from the crowd, when we're on the road.

If those dudes wouldn't have collapsed for a 4 minute stretch, we could've stayed within 10 and maybe had a shot at the end to possibly win.

But go ahead and use the cop out excuse, and blame Woody. God forbid the players take total responsibility for a loss.

It happens to us against any team on the road. Some teams are just better at capitalizing on it than others. But whatever, if you want to believe Woodson is a quality coach I'm not going to stop you.

[thecampster]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 12:44 AM, said:

So let me get this straight. The guards shot 51% FG, and the bigs shot 33% . . yet . . you want the bigs to get more shots? LOL.

You know why the bigs didn't get the shots in this game? It's because they played SOFT and weren't nearly as aggressive as they normally are. Horford at least tried, but Marvin and Smoove were non-existant. The frontlines of Indiana and Washington are some of the softest in the league. That's why our guys were aggressive against those guys.

As for Josh Smith, he got 2 or 3 assists in the 4th quarter, when the game was already decided. Overall, he played like straight garbage tonight, mainly because he didn't even come close to matching the effort of Odom. Add Marvin to that garbage list too, because he didn't show up at all.

Matter of fact, up until the last 2 minutes of the game, JJ was leading this team in points, rebounds, and assists. Why is your 2-guard leading the team in rebounding, when we have one of the most athletic frontlines in the league?

And some of you wonder why JJ looks mad or emotionless all the time.

But go ahead. Put blame on the coach for the 4 minute collapse that decided the game.

(( shaking my head ))

That is exactly what I'm saying. We played with the ball out at the perimeter all night. Long shots and sloppy guard play lead to the fast break points you saw tonight. A good indication of how we played tonight is the +/- stat. From worst to best.

Zaza -15
Bibby -10
Josh-10
Evans -9
Marvin -6
Joe -5
Jamal -5
Joe Smith +5
Horford +7
Teague +8

The only starter with a positive score is Horford at +7.

Zaza going -15 in 16 minutes is pretty telling.

By the way. For the year, the +/- stat for the starters.

Horford - +26
Josh - +19
Williams - +14
Joe - +12
Bibby - +12

[northcyde]

High5, on 02 November 2009 - 01:22 AM, said:

It happens to us against any team on the road. Some teams are just better at capitalizing on it than others. But whatever, if you want to believe Woodson is a quality coach I'm not going to stop you.

Some teams are better at capitalizing on it, because they have stronger and more active frontlines.

Woody is nowhere near as bad of a coach that people make him out to be. I just get tired of this fan base always blaming him for when things go wrong, and not the players in question. Whenever you virtually lose a game in a 5 minute stretch in which you have a million turnovers, leading to breakaway dunks on the other end, that's obviously a PLAYERS' LOSS.

Hell, he put Crawford in, and even he played like ish during that stretch. The guy that people wanted JJ's and Bibby's minutes reduced for, couldn't even get it done. This wasn't a situation in which Woody got outcoached in the 3rd quarter. Those guys simply choked once the Lakers turned up the intensity.

That's why I defend him. Because this loss OBVIOUSLY wasn't his fault. Not his fault at all.

[EazyRoc]

thecampster, on 02 November 2009 - 01:48 AM, said:

That is exactly what I'm saying. We played with the ball out at the perimeter all night. Long shots and sloppy guard play lead to the fast break points you saw tonight. A good indication of how we played tonight is the +/- stat. From worst to best.

Zaza -15
Bibby -10
Josh-10
Evans -9
Marvin -6
Joe -5
Jamal -5
Joe Smith +5
Horford +7
Teague +8

The only starter with a positive score is Horford at +7.

Zaza going -15 in 16 minutes is pretty telling.

By the way. For the year, the +/- stat for the starters.

Horford - +26
Josh - +19
Williams - +14
Joe - +12
Bibby - +12

That is incorrect. 6 of the 8 turnovers committed during the 3rd quarter were due to our frontline players. Not long shots or sloppy guard play. I might be wrong, but I believe all 6 of those turnovers led to dunks. So that's about 12 fast break points from turnovers committed by the frontline players who didn't get the basketball enough according to you.

Edited by EazyRoc, 02 November 2009 - 02:04 AM.

[thecampster]

EazyRoc, on 02 November 2009 - 02:02 AM, said:

That is incorrect. 6 of the 8 turnovers committed during the 3rd quarter were due to our frontline players. Not long shots or sloppy guard play. I might be wrong, but I believe all 6 of those turnovers led to dunks. So that's about 12 fast break points from turnovers committed by the frontline players who didn't get the basketball enough according to you.

Those turnovers were happening primarily at the 3 point line.

[EazyRoc]

I don't get the point you're trying to prove. Even though that's still inaccurate. Those turnovers happened all over the floor, because of bad passes, clumsiness, or carelessness with the basketball. It wasn't like Al Horford, Josh Smith, or Pachulia were trying to get their offense on the perimeter. It's just they were turning the ball over when they had it, and it was a very big part of why we lost this game.