90 replies to this topic

[Hotlanta1981]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 12:49 AM, said:

You have to walk before you can run. We're past the crawling stage, so next is "walking". Before expecting to beat the Lakers on their home court, we need to beat a team like Portland first on their home floor. If they can consistently do that, maybe it will better prepare them against the BIG 3 and the top teams in the West.

The rebuilding started for this team like 5 or 6 seasons ago. So need to talk about how you have to walk before you can run. Did Boston have to walk before they could run? Does LA have to walk before they can run? Does the Spurs have to walk for they run? A team shouldn't take 8 seasons to develop. This team still does a lot of the same things they did 3 years ago. Plus, the teams best player is pushing 30 and everybody else is still a role player. The Hawks have a roster full of role players and they're not going to reach the elite teams. Period. This team missed it's shot to have a player to build around when they drafted Marvin Williams.

Blame Woodson? No blame Billy Knight. This team will end up just as Memphis did. Remember that team that won 50 games but never got anywhere in the playoffs? The only reason this team did was because they were playing the one player team in Wade. This team was went as far it can go, and that is laid at the feet of Billy Knight.

Edited by Hotlanta1981, 02 November 2009 - 12:57 AM.

[RedDawg#8]

The Lakers were a lottery team after Shaq left town, it took what 5-6 seasons to climb back to a championship level, that with them being the Yankees of basketball

so yes, they had to wak first too.

Bos bought a championshi teamp, we are trying to grow one

but yeah, I jus saw how we got dominated in the 3rd but atleast we fought back.... a little. Heck, I had a good day so its hard for me to upset about this loss right now, sorry guys.

[northcyde]

High5, on 02 November 2009 - 12:26 AM, said:

If performances like this happen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again the coach has to be somewhat accountable. Woodson is an incompetent head coach and/or he doesn't have the respect of his players. That's a problem. It has been a problem for a long time now. This was just a terrible game all around so I'm not going to waste anymore time posting about.

It wasn't a terrible game all around. This team played decent in the first half. But once the Lakers started turning up the heat, we simply folded.

This mainly happens against the teams with strong and active frontines. It only happens over and over and over against those types of teams. Smoove and Marvin can't access their He-Man powers from the crowd, when we're on the road.

If those dudes wouldn't have collapsed for a 4 minute stretch, we could've stayed within 10 and maybe had a shot at the end to possibly win.

But go ahead and use the cop out excuse, and blame Woody. God forbid the players take total responsibility for a loss.

[Hotlanta1981]

RedDawg#8, on 02 November 2009 - 12:59 AM, said:

The Lakers were a lottery team after Shaq left town, it took what 5-6 seasons to climb back to a championship level, that with them being the Yankees of basketball

so yes, they had to wak first too.

Bos bought a championshi teamp, we are trying to grow one

but yeah, I jus saw how we got dominated in the 3rd but atleast we fought back.... a little. Heck, I had a good day so its hard for me to upset about this loss right now, sorry guys.

The Lakers have had like 1 losing season in 15 years. This team just had it's first winning season in 10 years. And 5 seasons? More like 3.

This team isn't even close to growing a championship team. The parts aren't here. Too many blown draft picks.

[High5]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 01:01 AM, said:

It wasn't a terrible game all around. This team played decent in the first half. But once the Lakers started turning up the heat, we simply folded.

This mainly happens against the teams with strong and active frontines. It only happens over and over and over against those types of teams. Smoove and Marvin can't access their He-Man powers from the crowd, when we're on the road.

If those dudes wouldn't have collapsed for a 4 minute stretch, we could've stayed within 10 and maybe had a shot at the end to possibly win.

But go ahead and use the cop out excuse, and blame Woody. God forbid the players take total responsibility for a loss.

It happens to us against any team on the road. Some teams are just better at capitalizing on it than others. But whatever, if you want to believe Woodson is a quality coach I'm not going to stop you.

[thecampster]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 12:44 AM, said:

So let me get this straight. The guards shot 51% FG, and the bigs shot 33% . . yet . . you want the bigs to get more shots? LOL.

You know why the bigs didn't get the shots in this game? It's because they played SOFT and weren't nearly as aggressive as they normally are. Horford at least tried, but Marvin and Smoove were non-existant. The frontlines of Indiana and Washington are some of the softest in the league. That's why our guys were aggressive against those guys.

As for Josh Smith, he got 2 or 3 assists in the 4th quarter, when the game was already decided. Overall, he played like straight garbage tonight, mainly because he didn't even come close to matching the effort of Odom. Add Marvin to that garbage list too, because he didn't show up at all.

Matter of fact, up until the last 2 minutes of the game, JJ was leading this team in points, rebounds, and assists. Why is your 2-guard leading the team in rebounding, when we have one of the most athletic frontlines in the league?

And some of you wonder why JJ looks mad or emotionless all the time.

But go ahead. Put blame on the coach for the 4 minute collapse that decided the game.

(( shaking my head ))

That is exactly what I'm saying. We played with the ball out at the perimeter all night. Long shots and sloppy guard play lead to the fast break points you saw tonight. A good indication of how we played tonight is the +/- stat. From worst to best.

Zaza -15
Bibby -10
Josh-10
Evans -9
Marvin -6
Joe -5
Jamal -5
Joe Smith +5
Horford +7
Teague +8

The only starter with a positive score is Horford at +7.

Zaza going -15 in 16 minutes is pretty telling.

By the way. For the year, the +/- stat for the starters.

Horford - +26
Josh - +19
Williams - +14
Joe - +12
Bibby - +12

[northcyde]

High5, on 02 November 2009 - 01:22 AM, said:

It happens to us against any team on the road. Some teams are just better at capitalizing on it than others. But whatever, if you want to believe Woodson is a quality coach I'm not going to stop you.

Some teams are better at capitalizing on it, because they have stronger and more active frontlines.

Woody is nowhere near as bad of a coach that people make him out to be. I just get tired of this fan base always blaming him for when things go wrong, and not the players in question. Whenever you virtually lose a game in a 5 minute stretch in which you have a million turnovers, leading to breakaway dunks on the other end, that's obviously a PLAYERS' LOSS.

Hell, he put Crawford in, and even he played like ish during that stretch. The guy that people wanted JJ's and Bibby's minutes reduced for, couldn't even get it done. This wasn't a situation in which Woody got outcoached in the 3rd quarter. Those guys simply choked once the Lakers turned up the intensity.

That's why I defend him. Because this loss OBVIOUSLY wasn't his fault. Not his fault at all.

[EazyRoc]

thecampster, on 02 November 2009 - 01:48 AM, said:

That is exactly what I'm saying. We played with the ball out at the perimeter all night. Long shots and sloppy guard play lead to the fast break points you saw tonight. A good indication of how we played tonight is the +/- stat. From worst to best.

Zaza -15
Bibby -10
Josh-10
Evans -9
Marvin -6
Joe -5
Jamal -5
Joe Smith +5
Horford +7
Teague +8

The only starter with a positive score is Horford at +7.

Zaza going -15 in 16 minutes is pretty telling.

By the way. For the year, the +/- stat for the starters.

Horford - +26
Josh - +19
Williams - +14
Joe - +12
Bibby - +12

That is incorrect. 6 of the 8 turnovers committed during the 3rd quarter were due to our frontline players. Not long shots or sloppy guard play. I might be wrong, but I believe all 6 of those turnovers led to dunks. So that's about 12 fast break points from turnovers committed by the frontline players who didn't get the basketball enough according to you.

Edited by EazyRoc, 02 November 2009 - 02:04 AM.

[thecampster]

EazyRoc, on 02 November 2009 - 02:02 AM, said:

That is incorrect. 6 of the 8 turnovers committed during the 3rd quarter were due to our frontline players. Not long shots or sloppy guard play. I might be wrong, but I believe all 6 of those turnovers led to dunks. So that's about 12 fast break points from turnovers committed by the frontline players who didn't get the basketball enough according to you.

Those turnovers were happening primarily at the 3 point line.

[EazyRoc]

I don't get the point you're trying to prove. Even though that's still inaccurate. Those turnovers happened all over the floor, because of bad passes, clumsiness, or carelessness with the basketball. It wasn't like Al Horford, Josh Smith, or Pachulia were trying to get their offense on the perimeter. It's just they were turning the ball over when they had it, and it was a very big part of why we lost this game.

[EazyRoc]

Our guards were turning the ball over, but until that 3rd quarter sequence we were very much in the game. They were carrying us, and doing their part. Al Horford is not going to get much going down low with a 7' with a eagle-like wingspan guarding him. Almost every shot he took was contested, and even the ones he made weren't real efficient. Josh Smith is naturally going to have a hard time against a player like Odom, who is quick enough to stick with Josh Smith to keep him from dribble driving. That's why Josh was trying to shoot jumpers, so he could open things up for him. Marvin had opportunities, but was just ice cold and also was playing kind of sloppy was well.

[TheTruth]

Northcyde will bump this topic after every Hawks loss I suppose. *SMH*

At any rate, I am interested in seeing how we play against Portland on the road now. They are a legit team who play very well at home. We better not fold like we did tonight.

[High5]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 01:51 AM, said:

Some teams are better at capitalizing on it, because they have stronger and more active frontlines.

Woody is nowhere near as bad of a coach that people make him out to be. I just get tired of this fan base always blaming him for when things go wrong, and not the players in question. Whenever you virtually lose a game in a 5 minute stretch in which you have a million turnovers, leading to breakaway dunks on the other end, that's obviously a PLAYERS' LOSS.

Hell, he put Crawford in, and even he played like ish during that stretch. The guy that people wanted JJ's and Bibby's minutes reduced for, couldn't even get it done. This wasn't a situation in which Woody got outcoached in the 3rd quarter. Those guys simply choked once the Lakers turned up the intensity.

That's why I defend him. Because this loss OBVIOUSLY wasn't his fault. Not his fault at all.

You're criticizing people for blaming Woodson when you're the other extreme. Most people realize there is plenty of blame to go around. Sure you can't blame him for the team tossing the ball around with the Lakers, but how about him allowing Josh Smith to camp out on the perimeter for nearly the entire game? What coach in their right mind would continue to let Josh try his luck out there rather than trying to be an effective basketball player? And why does he take Joe out of the game when he's having the best quarter of his life? Why did he allow Joe to basically be invisible for the next 20 minutes or so? Things like that he does have control over but he's not a very good coach.

[sillent]

Hotlanta1981, on 02 November 2009 - 12:05 AM, said:

Who gives a damn if they beat Portland or not? It's meaingless in the grand scheme of things.

Seriously every team has it's oop games (Lakers had theirs against the Mavs). These are the wake up calls for players and coaches alike. In situations like this you got to trust your bench(if you have one which we do) and/or let the guys that came to play play. We have so many different combination's we can use and Woody is very hesitant to figure them out. Not to take away the incompetence of our players (at least tonight) but this is the time where you call time outs to slow down runs, switch up game plans, or let your bench create the fire/intensity that will light a spark in your starters. This is a game where Teague could have used a lot more minutes rookie or not. We have a problem with controlling the ball put your most efficient ball handlers or low turn over ratio players in. It is/was a game that had a lot more to be seen and the Lakers didn't necessarily beat us, we Beat ourselves with carelessness . Again another reason to put people who are hungry to play in the game. We played like we were still enjoying Halloween and ready to go to sleep.

No need to press the panic button though it is one game against the defending champs and we beat us more than they did. Always good to have wake up calls early during the season and any time we are just cruising instead of going to work. It's hard to choose a better team to slack against early on the road (meaning it would have been a difficult game either way win or lose). The Lakers were going to try everything in the book to get this game so although I don't approve of giving away a game if we were in need of a wake up call game this was a good one against a good team to snap out our sleep walking mode. This is actually a good lesson for our players that think we are so deep they don't have to bring their A game. Against the Elite( Or any team for that matter) you have to be prepared to bring your A game. If that means just adding your two cents like Marvin did in the Washington game or taking control like Horford did in the Pacers game.

This Portland game will now be the real test since we got our wake up call early during our road trip and like the Lakers you would think that we would have to perform better.

[sillent]

Hotlanta1981, on 02 November 2009 - 12:54 AM, said:

The rebuilding started for this team like 5 or 6 seasons ago. So need to talk about how you have to walk before you can run. Did Boston have to walk before they could run? Does LA have to walk before they can run? Does the Spurs have to walk for they run? A team shouldn't take 8 seasons to develop. This team still does a lot of the same things they did 3 years ago. Plus, the teams best player is pushing 30 and everybody else is still a role player. The Hawks have a roster full of role players and they're not going to reach the elite teams. Period. This team missed it's shot to have a player to build around when they drafted Marvin Williams.

Blame Woodson? No blame Billy Knight. This team will end up just as Memphis did. Remember that team that won 50 games but never got anywhere in the playoffs? The only reason this team did was because they were playing the one player team in Wade. This team was went as far it can go, and that is laid at the feet of Billy Knight.

Yes!! All of their Marquee players have at least 10 years in this league and/or had to learn from greats to be great.

Memphis did not win a single game in the playoffs if I recall correctly and since your such a Billy Knight hater I have two more facts. Memphis did not start winning until Billy Knight came (traded Shareef for a Rookie named Pau Gasol) and got other pieces for them. They started losing when Billy Knight left( For the Hawks Ironically). We have been one of the cheapest and youngest to win under Billy Knight's tenure. Sund obviously feels like BK has done a pretty good job keeping every BK choosen player but Childress and and enjoying/adding to our year to year improvements.

Besides Vaughn, Speedy (would have been a good pick up if not for being injury prone which BK usually has/had a good eye for),Lue(who actually was decent on the offensive end at times), and Sheldon (BK thought he was Horford at the time but made the right pick the second time around). Law (although I felt he may have had some potential) was not really a BK pick and was more of a forced pick by fans, Woody, etc...Teague would have been a BK pick( young, athletic, multi dimensional PG/SG).

You are definitely a CP lover but BK had forsight enough to know that depth beats a one man team. Look at New Orleans now (very stagnant and will take a lot of work to move forward). When double O is your prize for losing Chandler it is kind of sad. We have four young and talented players that can fill four/five of the positions the NBA requires and they all have no where to go but up. Marvin may be currently shell shocked over all the talent we have but once he learns where to fit in and how much he is a key to the team we will be one of the deadliest teams in the league( assuming Smoove, Horford and Teague continue their stellar play). Everybody has bad games in the league (including Kobe) so one game does not mean the season is over.

Edited by sillent, 02 November 2009 - 04:11 AM.