90 replies to this topic

[EazyRoc]

Our guards were turning the ball over, but until that 3rd quarter sequence we were very much in the game. They were carrying us, and doing their part. Al Horford is not going to get much going down low with a 7' with a eagle-like wingspan guarding him. Almost every shot he took was contested, and even the ones he made weren't real efficient. Josh Smith is naturally going to have a hard time against a player like Odom, who is quick enough to stick with Josh Smith to keep him from dribble driving. That's why Josh was trying to shoot jumpers, so he could open things up for him. Marvin had opportunities, but was just ice cold and also was playing kind of sloppy was well.

[TheTruth]

Northcyde will bump this topic after every Hawks loss I suppose. *SMH*

At any rate, I am interested in seeing how we play against Portland on the road now. They are a legit team who play very well at home. We better not fold like we did tonight.

[High5]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 01:51 AM, said:

Some teams are better at capitalizing on it, because they have stronger and more active frontlines.

Woody is nowhere near as bad of a coach that people make him out to be. I just get tired of this fan base always blaming him for when things go wrong, and not the players in question. Whenever you virtually lose a game in a 5 minute stretch in which you have a million turnovers, leading to breakaway dunks on the other end, that's obviously a PLAYERS' LOSS.

Hell, he put Crawford in, and even he played like ish during that stretch. The guy that people wanted JJ's and Bibby's minutes reduced for, couldn't even get it done. This wasn't a situation in which Woody got outcoached in the 3rd quarter. Those guys simply choked once the Lakers turned up the intensity.

That's why I defend him. Because this loss OBVIOUSLY wasn't his fault. Not his fault at all.

You're criticizing people for blaming Woodson when you're the other extreme. Most people realize there is plenty of blame to go around. Sure you can't blame him for the team tossing the ball around with the Lakers, but how about him allowing Josh Smith to camp out on the perimeter for nearly the entire game? What coach in their right mind would continue to let Josh try his luck out there rather than trying to be an effective basketball player? And why does he take Joe out of the game when he's having the best quarter of his life? Why did he allow Joe to basically be invisible for the next 20 minutes or so? Things like that he does have control over but he's not a very good coach.

[sillent]

Hotlanta1981, on 02 November 2009 - 12:05 AM, said:

Who gives a damn if they beat Portland or not? It's meaingless in the grand scheme of things.

Seriously every team has it's oop games (Lakers had theirs against the Mavs). These are the wake up calls for players and coaches alike. In situations like this you got to trust your bench(if you have one which we do) and/or let the guys that came to play play. We have so many different combination's we can use and Woody is very hesitant to figure them out. Not to take away the incompetence of our players (at least tonight) but this is the time where you call time outs to slow down runs, switch up game plans, or let your bench create the fire/intensity that will light a spark in your starters. This is a game where Teague could have used a lot more minutes rookie or not. We have a problem with controlling the ball put your most efficient ball handlers or low turn over ratio players in. It is/was a game that had a lot more to be seen and the Lakers didn't necessarily beat us, we Beat ourselves with carelessness . Again another reason to put people who are hungry to play in the game. We played like we were still enjoying Halloween and ready to go to sleep.

No need to press the panic button though it is one game against the defending champs and we beat us more than they did. Always good to have wake up calls early during the season and any time we are just cruising instead of going to work. It's hard to choose a better team to slack against early on the road (meaning it would have been a difficult game either way win or lose). The Lakers were going to try everything in the book to get this game so although I don't approve of giving away a game if we were in need of a wake up call game this was a good one against a good team to snap out our sleep walking mode. This is actually a good lesson for our players that think we are so deep they don't have to bring their A game. Against the Elite( Or any team for that matter) you have to be prepared to bring your A game. If that means just adding your two cents like Marvin did in the Washington game or taking control like Horford did in the Pacers game.

This Portland game will now be the real test since we got our wake up call early during our road trip and like the Lakers you would think that we would have to perform better.

[sillent]

Hotlanta1981, on 02 November 2009 - 12:54 AM, said:

The rebuilding started for this team like 5 or 6 seasons ago. So need to talk about how you have to walk before you can run. Did Boston have to walk before they could run? Does LA have to walk before they can run? Does the Spurs have to walk for they run? A team shouldn't take 8 seasons to develop. This team still does a lot of the same things they did 3 years ago. Plus, the teams best player is pushing 30 and everybody else is still a role player. The Hawks have a roster full of role players and they're not going to reach the elite teams. Period. This team missed it's shot to have a player to build around when they drafted Marvin Williams.

Blame Woodson? No blame Billy Knight. This team will end up just as Memphis did. Remember that team that won 50 games but never got anywhere in the playoffs? The only reason this team did was because they were playing the one player team in Wade. This team was went as far it can go, and that is laid at the feet of Billy Knight.

Yes!! All of their Marquee players have at least 10 years in this league and/or had to learn from greats to be great.

Memphis did not win a single game in the playoffs if I recall correctly and since your such a Billy Knight hater I have two more facts. Memphis did not start winning until Billy Knight came (traded Shareef for a Rookie named Pau Gasol) and got other pieces for them. They started losing when Billy Knight left( For the Hawks Ironically). We have been one of the cheapest and youngest to win under Billy Knight's tenure. Sund obviously feels like BK has done a pretty good job keeping every BK choosen player but Childress and and enjoying/adding to our year to year improvements.

Besides Vaughn, Speedy (would have been a good pick up if not for being injury prone which BK usually has/had a good eye for),Lue(who actually was decent on the offensive end at times), and Sheldon (BK thought he was Horford at the time but made the right pick the second time around). Law (although I felt he may have had some potential) was not really a BK pick and was more of a forced pick by fans, Woody, etc...Teague would have been a BK pick( young, athletic, multi dimensional PG/SG).

You are definitely a CP lover but BK had forsight enough to know that depth beats a one man team. Look at New Orleans now (very stagnant and will take a lot of work to move forward). When double O is your prize for losing Chandler it is kind of sad. We have four young and talented players that can fill four/five of the positions the NBA requires and they all have no where to go but up. Marvin may be currently shell shocked over all the talent we have but once he learns where to fit in and how much he is a key to the team we will be one of the deadliest teams in the league( assuming Smoove, Horford and Teague continue their stellar play). Everybody has bad games in the league (including Kobe) so one game does not mean the season is over.

Edited by sillent, 02 November 2009 - 04:11 AM.

[spotatl]

He Hawks are simply not as good as the lakers- I think its ridiculous to blame woodson in this situation. I do think its ridiculous how people blame woodson for every single loss- the hawks would seemingly go undefeated this season if the Hawks had a different coach in some people's minds.

I think that people don't understand that the Hawks have just 1 guy on the team who can consistently draw a doubleteam and find the open man. (Crawford can draw a doubleteam but its not clear that he can find the open man after that happens) The Hawks have no post players that teams are worried about. Its a perimeter oriented team because thats where the team can attack from. Bibby, Marvin, Josh, and Al all pretty much need to face an unsettled defense to get their points at this point. Thats not Woody's fault.

[hawksfanatic]

northcyde, on 02 November 2009 - 12:31 AM, said:

Foul at the end of the game? Why? So we could lose by MORE POINTS?


This isn't college basketball, in which you have the 1 and 1. If you miss that first free throw, you can rebound the ball and go the other way. In college, when you reach the free throw foul penalty ( 7 fouls ), a team gets to shoot the 1 and 1 until the opposing team reaches the 10th foul. After that, they get 2 shots no matter what.

The NBA is vastly different. Once a team reaches 5 fouls, the opposing gets to shoot 2 free throws . . no matter what. And in the NBA, most of the guards who will handle the ball in late game situations, are at least 80%+ free throw shooters.

That's why you hardly ever see an NBA team excessively foul at the end of games. It's pretty much useless. It's almost an unwritten rule that if you're down more than 8 points with a minute to go, that the opposing team isn't going to foul you to extend the game.

I really question whether or not you ever watch NBA basketball. Teams foul at the end of the game all the time, its not a college exclusive event.

When the Lakers are throwing out Lamar Odom (.701 career), Artest (.721 career), and Bynum (.676 career) at the end of the game and you have a chance to foul them you do it. You also want to instill an attitude that you can win games and are going to try. At least TRY, if you don't you are putting out a piss poor effort and creating a loser mentality. "Oh the lead is too big, lets just get it over with. No need to embarrass ourselves by trying"

And by the way, Lamar Odom was handling the ball with 40 seconds left, not Derek Fisher as you imply in this post. It helps to actually watch the games when you want to comment on the game.

[macdaddy]

If your theme is that we lost a) because we got outworked and b) because what we were doing in the 1st quarter wasn't still working in the 3rd quarter then I have a hard time with your conclusion that Woody doesn't deserve some blame.

[northcyde]

EazyRoc, on 02 November 2009 - 02:02 AM, said:

That is incorrect. 6 of the 8 turnovers committed during the 3rd quarter were due to our frontline players. Not long shots or sloppy guard play. I might be wrong, but I believe all 6 of those turnovers led to dunks. So that's about 12 fast break points from turnovers committed by the frontline players who didn't get the basketball enough according to you.

Thank you. Anybody who watched the game would know that. I haven't even looked at the ESPN play by play log yer, but I'm sure it will show something similar to what you said.

[HawksFan87]

You guys are too funny lol... Yeah our season is over after the 3rd game.. And yes Woody is too blame, we don't play any defense at all..

Edited by jsmoovefan, 02 November 2009 - 10:34 AM.

[northcyde]

TheTruth, on 02 November 2009 - 02:42 AM, said:

Northcyde will bump this topic after every Hawks loss I suppose. *SMH*

At any rate, I am interested in seeing how we play against Portland on the road now. They are a legit team who play very well at home. We better not fold like we did tonight.

Nope.

It's funny though. People bash Woody every chance they get for the littliest of things, and it basically gets a pass on this board and on other blogs/message boards. But when I defend him, I'm the crazy one? If Woody makes a bad coaching decision, I have no problem calling that dude out. But when the players OBVIOUSLY melted down on their own, that has nothing to do with coaching.

I posted this topic right after that run in the 3rd quarter, because I KNEW people would go back to blaming Woody. You call yourself "the truth". Well, be truthful about last night. Don't take the easy way out and bame coaching. For once, put the blame where it belongs.

[NineOhTheRino]

Gentleman It tis what it tis

Woodson is a mediocre coach.

Sund is a mediocre GM.

ASG are mediocre owners.

The players are mediocre.

The Hawks have a mediocre fanbase.


I say with such an abundance mediocrity around we should all accept it and move on. Just enjoy the wins vs the bad teams guys. And in the case of Woody and the hawks I say there's is no same in being 8th best out of 30 at anything.

Edited by NineOhTheRino, 02 November 2009 - 10:18 AM.

[Duff_Man]

Woodson pulled Joe after a dazzling 1st quarter display. The benching of the hottest player on Earth instead of riding the wave is easily questionable.

7 points after that. Woody's new nickname is "The Cooler."

[NineOhTheRino]

Duff_Man, on 02 November 2009 - 10:22 AM, said:

Woodson pulled Joe after a dazzling 1st quarter display. The benching of the hottest player on Earth instead of riding the wave is easily questionable.

7 points after that. Woody's new nickname is "The Cooler."

no that's Crawford's new nickname.

[northcyde]

High5, on 02 November 2009 - 02:45 AM, said:

You're criticizing people for blaming Woodson when you're the other extreme. Most people realize there is plenty of blame to go around. Sure you can't blame him for the team tossing the ball around with the Lakers, but how about him allowing Josh Smith to camp out on the perimeter for nearly the entire game? What coach in their right mind would continue to let Josh try his luck out there rather than trying to be an effective basketball player? And why does he take Joe out of the game when he's having the best quarter of his life? Why did he allow Joe to basically be invisible for the next 20 minutes or so? Things like that he does have control over but he's not a very good coach.

LMAo . . damn. So all season, people have been crying about reducing JJ's minutes. But when JJ has a monster quarter, and Woody looks for the bench to sustain the effort, Woody gets questioned for not keeping JJ in? And Woody "allowed" JJ to be invisible for 20 minutes?

Does Woody have an X-Box controller or something?

It's incredible what some of you guys say sometimes. I mean damn. So JJ has one of the best quarters of his life, but Woody pulls him aside and says "JJ, we need you to dial it down a bit"? It had nothing to do with both Kobe and Artest or Odom running out at JJ, forcing him to give up the ball? JJ did try to score the ball, but after he came back in the game after his 2nd quarter rest, every shot except the 3 pointer at the end of the half was contested. The only person that really stepped up to help JJ, was Bibby.




And let me ask you this about Josh Smith. And really think about your answer before you type it. When Josh Smith goes up against a good defensive PF, what usually happens?

Here's a hint . . . I'll GUARANTEE YOU that he doesn't play like this against LaMarcus Aldridge, a guy who isn't known for his defense.

So I guess in his case, Woody told Smoove . . "Hey Josh, I know you've had success driving the ball and being a playmaker for us the past 2 games . . but tonight . . I don't want you to mix it up at all on the inside. I want Horford to battle Odom and Artest by himself on the boards, and you stay out of his way. And oh yeah . . if you want to go back shooting long jumpers tonight, you have my blessing to do so."

Is that what Woody told him?