hawksfanatic, on 02 November 2009 - 04:43 PM, said:
So you say we shouldn't do it because...its useless? Forget about practice, if you can't dunk a basketball just don't try. Working out? Nope, if you can't do it now then no use working out to do it later. Northcyde says its pointless so everyone just give up, no use practicing.
If you get down by 20, yeah probably not worth practicing because the Lakers won't even attempt to simulate the kind of defense you will see when trying to come back. But being down 10 with 50 seconds left isn't impossible and the Lakers would continue to play defense. There was T-Mac scoring 13 points in 35 seconds a few years back against the Spurs. I guess Northcyde would have said its pointless, don't try it. Fouling would just make the Spurs beat the Rockets by more, and who wants more humiliation?
And its pretty funny that you are saying that the Hawks shouldn't have been playing hard. Northcyde with the loser mentality of just give up, don't play hard. Roll over and die when you think you might not have a chance. Great way to have a team concept, don't practice and don't play hard. I have a hard time swallowing a loser mentality for this game. Why would you NOT try to simulate end of the game situations? You get more practice, you show you are a team of Men and not little sissies who give up. I don't have a problem with losing, but I do have a problem with not trying. Your shots might not be falling, but there is no reason you shouldn't give maximal effort because you can always control the amount of effort you give.
Let me answer that last paragraph first, before I break down what I have bolded.
The main reason you don't try to win a game in which you're down 10 with 50 seconds left, and they have the ball, is because of possible INJURIES. While it is unlikely that someone will get hurt while playing hard in that final minute, it's even MORE UNLIKELY that you'll win a game during that timespan with that much ground to make up.
In those miracle comebacks, you usually need 3 things to happen:
1) the losing team needs to get red hot from 3-point range
2) the losing team needs to force turnovers, and score off of those turnovers
3) the winning team has to completely panic ( or choke ), whether it be with ball handling or by missing free throws or by wide open missed shots or lay-ups
God forbid that someone like JJ or Smoove turns an ankle or suffers some sort of freak injury, while trying to erase a 10 point decifit with under a minute to go. The media and the fans would make Woody walk the plank and into an ocean full of sharks right then and there. This board would be in a state of PURE RAGE if that happened. Hawk Armageddon would come at the 3rd game of the season.
Even I couldn't defend Woody if that happened, because he shouldn't have had them doing that ish in the first place . . down 10 . . with less than a minute to go. Maybe in a playoff elimination game you have them doing that. But not in the 3rd game of the regular season, in a game that is all but lost anyway.
The NBA season is way too long as to act like every loss is going to put you out of playoff contention. The Hawks will definitely have a few games in which we're only down 5 - 7 points with less than a minute, to "practice" this strategy. At least with that point spread, you're only 2 threes away from putting yourself in contention to win the game.
So if the Hawks were showing no signs of seriously putting themselves in position to win the game . . . then yes, shut it down, and fight another day.
Bringing up NBA miracles like Miller's comeback against the Knicks and T-Mac's explosion aganst the Spurs, are merely that . . . .MIRACLES. 99% of games like the one we played in last night, end in a loss. So take the loss and move on.
And actually, since people are sooooooo concerned about JJ's and the starter's minutes, being down 10 with under a minute to go, definitely falls under the category of "wasted minutes in which they could be resting, instead of playing and exerting unnexessary energy."
Now . . it's interesting that you bring up that Houston game. T-Mac's performance was incredible. But the Rockets were in a totally different situation than we were in.
- although Houston was playing like pure crap, so were the Spurs. The score of that game was 60 - 60 early in the 4th quarter.
- Spurs had pushed their lead to 11 points, and were leading by 9 with under 2 minutes to go
- Rockets had only scored like 8 points in the quarter at that point.
So let's pick up the action from here.
*** With the Rockets being down 9, the "great Hawk legend" Bobby Sura, misses a three with 1:22 to go. Spurs get the rebound, and Duncan is fouled with 1:01 to go. Spurs lead . . 74 - 64.
(( Let's stop here for a minute, because already, they're in a totally different situation than we were in last night. Because altough both the Hawks last night, and the Rockets here, are down by 10, Houston has the ball with a chance to cut it to 7 or 8, while our only chance to cut it to 7 or 8, is to force a turnover and score. If not, the Lakers can run the lead to 12 with 2 FTs. If not, they're still up 10, with even less time on the clock. ))
*** T-Mac races down the court and misses a lay-up, but Yao put is back in the hole to cut the Spurs lead to 8 with 52 seconds to go. Then the first major element of the comeback happens. Scott Padgett steals the inbounds pass, and dunks it, cutting the Spur lead to 6 . . . with 47 seconds to go.
(( NOTE: This is the point in which the Rockets started to foul. With them only being down 6 with 47 seconds to go, they have the option to either try to get a stop, or extend the game by fouling. They go the foul route . . but only if they couldn't get a steal first. ))
**** Devin Brown is fouled, and makes 2 FTs, to make the score 76 -68 Spurs. A score by the rockets still makes it a 2-possession game. So when T-Mac hit's that first three to cut it to 76 - 71 with 35 seconds left, they still have a shot if they can get a steal or just one miss FT. But they get neither, and have to foul Brown again. Once agan, he makes 2 FTs and push the Spur lead to 78 - 71 with 31 seconds left.
**** Then the 2nd big play of the comeback happens. T-Mac hits another three, and is FOULED ON THE SHOT BY DUNCAN ( questionable foul, but they called it nonetheless ). After T-Mac hits the FT, you'ew now talking about a one possession game. Score: 78 - 75 Spurs . . with 24 seconds to go.
*** Rockets play for the steal again, but don't get it. They end up fouling Duncan, a pretty good person to foul. He makes his 2 FTs though, and push the Rocket lead back to 5 . . 80 - 75. 16 seconds to go. T-Mac get the ball again, and hits ANOTHER 3 with 11 seconds left, to cut the lead to 80 - 78.
*** Then the final part of the T-Mac miracle happens. Poor Devin Brown has the ball stolen by the one person you don't want to have the ball . . T-Mac. But instead of settling to tie the game, he pulls up for his 4th consecutive three, and knocks the dang shot down with less than 2 seconds left to give the Rockets an 81 - 80 lead. Tony Parker misses his three, and the Rockets win.
So let's review:
- Rockets erased a 10 point lead, but had to score 17 points in the final 1:01 to win
- T-Mac scores 13 points in 35 seconds.
- Although the Spurs went 6 - 6 from the FT line during this span, the 2 turnovers in which the Rockets got 5 points off of, and the Duncan foul on T-Mac's 3rd three pointer, turned out to be the difference in the game.
LOL . . nah man. The Hawks did right last night. Just play defense, but don't foul. Take your loss, and hope to regroup in Portland. Just because miracles DO happen, doesn't mean they happen often enough to expect them to happen. We can practice your "miracle" scenario in a game in which we actually have a slim shot to make it interesting.
If we beat Portland and Sacramento, we're 4 - 1. I think everybody would take that.
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Hawks24
