[Deeman]

http://www.nba.com/h.../What_I_Do.html

The skits are pretty funny, but does he actually have a chance at winning DPOY this year?

[wfhawkfan]

:laugh: at the rebounds and block skits

[Diesel]

Deeman, on 11 March 2010 - 01:41 PM, said:

http://www.nba.com/h.../What_I_Do.html

The skits are pretty funny, but does he actually have a chance at winning DPOY this year?

Nah.

Dwight Howard has 13.3 rpg, 2.8 bpg, and 1.0 spg... plus he intimidates most offenses.

[niremetal]

Deeman, on 11 March 2010 - 01:41 PM, said:

http://www.nba.com/h.../What_I_Do.html

The skits are pretty funny, but does he actually have a chance at winning DPOY this year?

Probably not. But that's ok, because who wins DPOY has nothing to do with who actually is the best defensive player in the league. Votes and voters for DPOY fall into 3 categories. Most of the voters are idiots like Mark Bradley and Jeff Schultz, who don't know anything about the importance and nuances of playing defense in basketball and therefore vote for the players with the most blocks, steals, and/or rebounds. That's why Marcus Camby - one of the weakest on-ball post defenders in the NBA - won DPOY. And why the Nuggets' defense improved immensely the year after he was traded for a pile of beans. The other categories of players who get lots of votes are 2) superstars and 3) grizzled veterans with a long reputation for defensive toughness (though the latter category never actually wins - they just get a few votes). That's a better basis than looking at blocks and steals, but it's still a BS reason.

The best on-ball defenders in the NBA the past 5+ years have been Shane Battier on the perimeter and Tim Duncan in the post. Neither has won a DPOY. For help D, it's been Josh the past couple years and either Kirilenko or Garnett before that. Relatedly, Kirilenko and Garnett were also the most versatile defenders in the league, the only guys who were actually good-to-great at guarding any of the 5 positions. Kirilenko never won, and Garnett only won based on reputation after several players had surpassed him in terms of both versatility and help impact.

Josh is the league's best help defender, and his impact playing help D and in transition D makes him one of the 5 best defensive players in the league overall, IMHO. But that's been true for at least 2 seasons past and hasn't led to him getting even an All-Defensive team selection. So I doubt he'll get DPOY this time. Look for D-12 to take it home again and Artest to get the reputation votes. Varejao might get some votes too. I think Josh will finish Top 5, but I would be (pleasantly) shocked if he came close to winning.

(Also, a tip to the Hawks' PR staff: Being 25th in the NBA in rebounds isn't exactly a selling point. But the skit was funny.)

This post has been edited by niremetal: 11 March 2010 - 02:44 PM

[SmooveTheFuture]

If his rebounds per game were around 11 he would def have a legit chance but not this year Howard will win it. He is def. on gonna win be on the Defensive all nba first team.

[Diesel]

SmooveTheFuture, on 11 March 2010 - 02:43 PM, said:

If his rebounds per game were around 11 he would def have a legit chance but not this year Howard will win it. He is def. on gonna win be on the Defensive all nba first team.

A guy that has a shot at Howard is Gerald Wallace, but he has to get his steals a little higher.

Of Course, Dwayne Wade and Lebron will get their votes too.

[Atlantaholic]

DPOY has nothing to do with defense, so I'm not to worried about whether Smoove gets it or not. He is definitely a very good defender, but he still needs to improve to be among the very best. What sets Smith apart is that he is the complete package. Very good defense, very good offense. if he continues to improve he could definitely become a perennial All-Star. He isn't quite there yet though.

[Diesel]

Atlantaholic, on 11 March 2010 - 04:03 PM, said:

DPOY has nothing to do with defense, so I'm not to worried about whether Smoove gets it or not. He is definitely a very good defender, but he still needs to improve to be among the very best. What sets Smith apart is that he is the complete package. Very good defense, very good offense. if he continues to improve he could definitely become a perennial All-Star. He isn't quite there yet though.

Holic,
I have heard you crying about this a few times already. I don't understand. So i have gathered the list of winners of the DPOY since it's inception. I want to ask, who should not be on this list and who should?


1982–83 Moncrief, SidneySidney Moncrief
1983–84 Moncrief, SidneySidney Moncrief (2)
1984–85 Eaton, MarkMark Eaton
1985–86 Robertson, AlvinAlvin Robertson
1986–87 Cooper, MichaelMichael Cooper
1987–88 Jordan, MichaelMichael Jordan
1988–89 Eaton, MarkMark Eaton
1989–90 Rodman, DennisDennis Rodman
1990–91 Rodman, DennisDennis Rodman
1991–92 Robinson, DavidDavid Robinson
1992–93 Olajuwon, HakeemHakeem Olajuwon
1993–94 Olajuwon, HakeemHakeem Olajuwon
1994–95 Mutombo, DikembeDikembe Mutombo
1995–96 Payton, GaryGary Payton
1996–97 Mutombo, DikembeDikembe Mutombo
1997–98 Mutombo, DikembeDikembe Mutombo
1998–99 Mourning, AlonzoAlonzo Mourning
1999–00 Mourning, AlonzoAlonzo Mourning
2000–01 Mutombo, DikembeDikembe Mutombo
2001–02 Wallace, BenBen Wallace
2002–03 Wallace, BenBen Wallace
2003–04 Artest, RonRon Artest
2004–05 Wallace, BenBen Wallace
2005–06 Wallace, BenBen Wallace
2006–07 Camby, MarcusMarcus Camby
2007–08 Garnett, KevinKevin Garnett
2008–09 Howard, DwightDwight Howard

[Diesel]

Holic, I even took that task for myself. I said Kevin Garnett in 2007-2008. SO I went to what the coaches had to say...

This is their All Defensive teams:

2007-08 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM
Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points
Forward Kevin Garnett, Boston 24 4 52
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 24 4 52
Center Marcus Camby, Denver 14 9 37
Guard/Forward Bruce Bowen, San Antonio 13 10 36
Forward Tim Duncan, San Antonio 12 9 33

2007-08 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM
Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points
Forward Shane Battier, Houston 9 11 29
Guard Chris Paul, New Orleans 10 6 26
Center Dwight Howard, Orlando 8 9 25
Forward Tayshaun Prince, Detroit 3 14 20
Guard Raja Bell, Phoenix 4 10 18

Other players receiving votes, with point totals (First Team votes in parentheses): Chauncey Billups, Detroit, 14 (5); Jason Kidd, Dallas, 13 (4); Rasheed Wallace, Detroit, 13 (3); Rajon Rondo, Boston, 11 (3); Deron Williams, Utah, 8, (3); Josh Smith, Atlanta, 8, (3); Ron Artest, Sacramento, 8 (2); Tyson Chandler, New Orleans, 8 (1); Andrei Kirilenko, Utah, 6; Derek Fisher, Los Angeles Lakers, 4 (1); LeBron James, Cleveland, 4 (1); Manu Ginobili, San Antonio, 4 (1); Kirk Hinrich, Chicago, 3 (1); Samuel Dalembert, Philadelphia, 3 (1); Andre Iguodala, Philadelphia, 2 (1); Brandon Roy, Portland, 2; Paul Pierce, Boston, 2; Andre Miller, Philadelphia, 1; Andres Nocioni, Chicago, 1; Baron Davis, Golden State, 1; Caron Butler, Washington, 1; Chris Bosh, Toronto, 1; Dikembe Mutombo, Houston, 1; Josh Howard, Dallas, 1; Richard Hamilton, Detroit, 1; Ronnie Brewer, Utah, 1.

Only Kobe got as many points from the coaches.

KG got 24/30 coaches to give him a first place vote. That's impressive.

[High5]

No way Wallace should be a 4x winner while Duncan has none.

As far as this year's race, there shouldn't be one. Howard is the DPOY.

[Diesel]

High5, on 11 March 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

No way Wallace should be a 4x winner while Duncan has none.

As far as this year's race, there shouldn't be one. Howard is the DPOY.

2001-02 NBA All-Defensive Teams:

NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM

Player Team Points 1st Team Votes
Tim Duncan San Antonio 40 17
Kevin Garnett Minnesota 27 10
Ben Wallace Detroit 51 24
Gary Payton Seattle 47 20
Jason Kidd New Jersey 37 15

2002-03 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM

Position Player, Team Points 1st Votes
Forward Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 47 (22)
Forward Tim Duncan, San Antonio 44 (18)
Center Ben Wallace, Detroit 55 (27)
Guard Doug Christie, Sacramento 38 (14)
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 35 (15)

2004-05 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM

Postion Player Team Points First Team Votes
Center Ben Wallace Detroit 51 23
Forward Kevin Garnett Minnesota 48 19
Guard Bruce Bowen San Antonio 48 23
Forward Tim Duncan San Antonio 39 16
Guard Larry Hughes Washington 22 9


2005-06 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM:
Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points
Guard Bruce Bowen, San Antonio 26 3 55
Center Ben Wallace, Detroit 26 2 54
Forward Andrei Kirilenko, Utah 19 6 44
Forward Ron Artest, Sacramento 11 8 30
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 12 4 28
Guard Jason Kidd, New Jersey 9 10 28

According to the coaches, Ben Wallace was better than Tim Duncan in the years that he won. IN 2005 however, he did steal it from Bruce Bowen (in the coaches minds). IN that year, Duncan was a 2nd teamer.

[lethalweapon3]

((Habitat construction site -- Joe is wearing a hardhat and chatting with the construction crew, standing by wheelbarrow))

((WINDOW CRASHES)) (crew ducks)

JOE (startled): Josh! (grabs wheelbarrow, approaches Josh) The wheelbarrow's right here, man. Why you gotta throw bricks from twenty feet away?

JOSH: That's what I do, man! That's what I do!

~lw3

[AHF]

High5, on 11 March 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

No way Wallace should be a 4x winner while Duncan has none.

No award system is perfect but this list isn't so bad. I would say that there is no way Shaq should only have one MVP or that there is no way Steve Nash should have more MVPs than Shaq, but that doesn't make the MVP list a joke or anything.

Wallace was a beast defensively during that time and was at least among the top elite defenders in the league when he won those awards. The only "throw away" one appears to me to be Marcus Camby. The others all look very defensible, even if not free from controversy.

[lethalweapon3]

I think Smoove's got a better shot at MIP than DPOY, but he could get better consideration this year for Defensive Second Team.

~lw3

[High5]

AHF, on 11 March 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

No award system is perfect but this list isn't so bad. I would say that there is no way Shaq should only have one MVP or that there is no way Steve Nash should have more MVPs than Shaq, but that doesn't make the MVP list a joke or anything.

Wallace was a beast defensively during that time and was at least among the top elite defenders in the league when he won those awards. The only "throw away" one appears to me to be Marcus Camby. The others all look very defensible, even if not free from controversy.

I never said it was a joke. I just said Wallace shouldn't have 4 while Duncan has 0. Just like Jerry Sloan should have at least one COY award.