GS would trade Andris Biedrins for Smoove straight up. We wanted a future first rounder with some lottery protection throw in and they balked.

Personally I am not sure why GS would want to trade Biedrins as he is the perfect center for the kind of offense they run. If Atlanta can't (and by can't I do in fact mean they actually could but don't want to spend the actual money) match Josh's RFA offer then they will lose him for nothing.

Not too much else to report, that was the only thing worth noting. The Gasol front is still a possibility that Knight is trying to explore, the Bulls are doing the same just as quietly but the Grizz don't want to move him.

GS would have no center if they made that trade but man that would be one of the most the most exciting teams I've ever seen. Wright,Harrington,and Smith are all PF's with the size of SF's. All of those options at center would be a disaster IMO.

Quick question about Gasol..do you think he will be harder to pry away than Amare(who was rumored to go for the 3 & 11 in the summer)?

Quote:

---

GS would trade Andris Biedrins for Smoove straight up...

---

That's something I would think about - better - get them to take Speedy off our hands for somebody who can at least take the court occasionally.

My gut says BK would never trade JS (if it's his decision)...JS is BK's only bigtime draft success. Still, if what you say is true (about us wanting a first also)...that means we are at least entertaining the option

Knight is an idiot......

Smoove was starting to play hard, he is going to play even harder after hearing this. Some team out there will really appreciate what he brings to the table...

BK is an idiot for turning DOWN a trade for Smith? WTF

Yes he is, you do not trade the face of this franchise unless it is for an All Star PG or C.

Biedrins he's ok nothing special..

he didn't trade smoove

golden state sent the offer; we didn't send them the offer

he countered with future first to prolly see how serious they are and how desperate they are for smoove

I would do this trade yesterday, but that's just me.

Quote:

---

I would do this trade yesterday, but that's just me.

---

As unpopular as it will sound...so would I. We would finally have a regular starting lineup of:

PG- Law
SG- Joe
SF- Marvin
PF- Horford
C- Biedrins

Quote:

---

GS would trade Andris Biedrins for Smoove straight up. We wanted a future first rounder with some lottery protection throw in and they balked.

---

Wow that is a shocker. I believe the only other center they have on the roster is O'Bryant.

I wonder if they would do that deal for Horford. The JRich deal showed they are very concerned about the cap.

I like Beidrins a lot but i am not so crazy about a Biedrins/Horford frontcourt. I like Biedrins/Smith much better because Smith is a much better scorer. Having two offensively challenged guys at the 4/5 might not work that well long term.

Biedrins is very good at finishing inside. He is averaging 13/11 now shooting 60% and last year averaged nearly a double double in only 29 minutes per game. Given Smiths passing ability i think they would complement each other really well.

i wouldn't

all he is better at is rebounding and fg%, and we have horford/shelden/zaza who can also rebound

smoove is a 5x5 player...those are so amazingly rare

and horford can hold down center just fine, so we don't NEED a center like we did

to even consider this trade, we'd have to get monta ellis and biedrins, so at least we'd have another pg to go with law


law/ellis
jj/chill/slim
marvin/chill
horford/shelden
biedrins/zaza



biedrins loses to his opp center -11.8 per this year; and was +0.2 per last year

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I would do this trade yesterday, but that's just me.

---

As unpopular as it will sound...so would I. We would finally have a regular starting lineup of:

PG- Law
SG- Joe
SF- Marvin
PF- Horford
C- Biedrins

---

I think BK is right to try to milk it for everything he can, but, yeah, eventually, this trade needs to get done.

i don't get the obsession with biedrins

he's a great rebounder for sure; tho horford won't be much worse

he doesn't bring the defense that smoove brings, nor the assists or steals or blocks

he doesn't play the man defense as good as horford

smoove is a very UNIQUE talent and he is only getting better every year...the last two games he showed that he is ready to start driving and not settle for jumpers and as he matures (still only 22), he will become one of the best players in this game

why trade that away?

Quote:

---

Yes he is, you do not trade the face of this franchise unless it is for an All Star PG or C.

Biedrins he's ok nothing special..

---

Biedrins is a better young center than Bynum. He's only 21 and is already averaging 14/11/2. He's a better rebounder than Smith, a good shotblocker, and a true defensive center.

Look at some of the games he's had for GS:

Vs. LAC - 23/18/2
Vs. Detroit - 18/11/1
Vs. Denver - 31/10/1
Vs. SAS - 18/15/6
Vs. Milwaukee - 17/12/3
Vs. Sacramento - 20/14/3
Vs. Boston - 20/17/4
Vs. Seattle - 15/16/2
Vs. Memphis - 21/14/2
Vs. Washington - 24/12/0

Biedrins plays a position that is harder to fill and still has a ton of upside. Only Greg Oden is a better center prospect in the NBA.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Yes he is, you do not trade the face of this franchise unless it is for an All Star PG or C.

Biedrins he's ok nothing special..

---

Biedrins is a better young center than Bynum. He's only 21 and is already averaging 14/11/2. He's a better rebounder than Smith, a good shotblocker, and a true defensive center.

Look at some of the games he's had for GS:

Vs. LAC - 23/18/2
Vs. Detroit - 18/11/1
Vs. Denver - 31/10/1
Vs. SAS - 18/15/6
Vs. Milwaukee - 17/12/3
Vs. Sacramento - 20/14/3
Vs. Boston - 20/17/4
Vs. Seattle - 15/16/2
Vs. Memphis - 21/14/2
Vs. Washington - 24/12/0

Biedrins plays a position that is harder to fill and still has a ton of upside. Only Greg Oden is a better center prospect in the NBA.

---

I don't care unless we are getting Kobe or an All-Star PG or C. No thanks..

Not a bad offer IF we were looking to trade Smith. However, I just haven't been very impressed with Biedrins. He doesn't strike me as a player who will ever be able to score the ball, he will NEVER be a good free throw shooter given his atrocious form. His only permanant assets will be defense and rebounding, which are 2 things that Smith EXCELS at, plus much more.

Quote:

---

he doesn't bring the defense that smoove brings, nor the assists or steals or blocks

---

I think the idea is that Horford would bring those things. He's a good outlet passes and shotblocker, too.

Quote:

---

he doesn't play the man defense as good as horford

---

I'd beg to differ. Plus, you're moving Horford to his natural position, where he'd be the one creating mismatches, not the other way around.

Quote:

---

smoove is a very UNIQUE talent and he is only getting better every year...the last two games he showed that he is ready to start driving and not settle for jumpers and as he matures (still only 22), he will become one of the best players in this game

why trade that away?

---

He's also highly combustible, incredibly inefficient offensive, and "reportedly" hard to get along with. If the Hawks made this deal, I think we can assume that some of the rumors about Smith are true.

Who said Smoove was hard to get along with???

Or did you get that info from the Detroit Newspaper??

Quote:

---

I don't care unless we are getting Kobe or an All-Star PG or C. No thanks..

---

You would be getting a player with every bit as much potential to be an All-Star as Josh Smith does.

There are few centers capable of putting up the numbers Biedrins has since the All-Star break last year.

The key question is how much of that is a product of good coaching.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I don't care unless we are getting Kobe or an All-Star PG or C. No thanks..

---

You would be getting a player with every bit as much potential to be an All-Star as Josh Smith does.

There are few centers capable of putting up the numbers Biedrins has since the All-Star break last year.

The key question is how much of that is a product of good coaching. [/quote



Sure, And there are few players capable of putting up the numbers Smoove does...

This is why I brought up the Marvin OR Smooth thread last week. You are not gonna be able to keep both (in the long run) especially since you just added Horford. This information confirms that Atlanta feels like what Marvin is doing is here to stay. Smoov had a great game last night and if he keeps this up, I think GS would eventually give in to a pick. We really need a skill guy in the post guys. We have the luxury of having a bunch of athletic guys that do alot of the same things (some better then others). Smoov happends to be the best of that bunch right now and believe me he is gonna command HUGE dollars in the offseason. Can he be the #2 option on this team everynight? We havnt seen it. Why do you think Joe Johnson is bitching? Cause there is no Other guy.

We need help down low. Let Al go to the 4 and marvin play the 3 and Bierdens play center. We've seen what atlanta is this year....We are young and athletic but we are treading water yall.

Marvin needs to stop being so d@mn soft, He can be a super star in this league. He can get to the hole at will if he so chooses. Al still has a long way to go....

That is one player I would trade Smoove for straight up. We got a our true PF now in Horford. Marvin is a natural SF. JJ is a natural SG. Chill is a great 6th man. Acie started show signs of being a legit PG. Biedrins would finally give us a 7'0 shot blocking and great rebouding center. It would have finally add balance to this team. We have gotta get rid of BK and Woodson. One thing that is hurting this team just as it hurting the Bulls. There is no balance. Unless you got a Paul,Nash, or another elite PG. This running style is just not going to work.

Quote:

---

We need help down low. Let Al go to the 4 and marvin play the 3 and Bierdens play center. We've seen what atlanta is this year....We are young and athletic but we are treading water yall.

---

Biedrins will be expensive as well next year, so that needs to be factored in.

Plus, you still have to address the PG position.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

We need help down low. Let Al go to the 4 and marvin play the 3 and Bierdens play center. We've seen what atlanta is this year....We are young and athletic but we are treading water yall.

---

Biedrins will be expensive as well next year, so that needs to be factored in.

Plus, you still have to address the PG position.

---

I agree. We just got to spread the talent to other positions other then the 3 and the 4. Man he would really give us a boost. I think weve maxed out what we are even with Acie hurt. Zaza just doesnt play any D and Horford is a better 4 then a 5. I dont think anyone can dispute that.

IN the tradition of HS posters fascination with stiffs. Why would we want a center from a team that believes that Al Harrington is a center?

The more I think about it, the more I like it. Biedrins is a true center, Horford is a true PF, and Marvin is a true SF who is also a borderline PF. All of them can rebound and play defense, and all of them are team-oriented, and stay inside their role in the offense. If Law comes through at PG, we wouldn't have a weakness, except for head coach.

Quote:

---

IN the tradition of HS posters fascination with stiffs. Why would we want a center from a team that believes that Al Harrington is a center?

---

Because our front office thinks that Al Horford is a center?

It would be stupid to trade Smoove for Biedrins.

Our need for a Center is not that great. Not so much so that we would give up the most marketable player since Dominique.. One who is starting to come into his own and one who's presence on the court makes so great of a difference.

It's stupid. And regardless of if GS don't give up the first. They can give up and unprotected first, what difference will it make if it's #23 overall?

That is a tough call. Six of one and half a dozen of the other. The only reason I'd be in favor of it is the log jam we have at the 3-4 postions. Both Smoove and Marvin are coming on. But Smoove's performance last night was just sick. Hard to part with that. But on the other had I'd love to see us have a real center.

the problem is the coach.

I have to agree with those saying they'd do this deal. Biedrins would complete this team in a lot of ways. Maybe then we could parlay Shelden and expirings into a guy like Andre Miller.

This is probably the best offer we'll get for Smoove. To think he's worth an All Star is just Atlanta fans overvaluing him as usual. I can't blame BK for countering with the draft pick, but I hope this deal gets done one way or another.

Well it's not really that stupid....While I think Smith is the better player...Biedrins would allow Horford to play PF which is better suited at. I can't blame BK for not pulling the trigger and asking for more but I can think of much worse scenarios than trading Smith for Biedrins.

horford isn't better suited at pf guys

he played CENTER in college

he has put up 9/11 in the NBA at CENTER so far

he will do better against the 'centers' that are in the nba these days than the pfs like garnett anyway

There's a high chance that GS will be going to the lottery this year.

I just looked up Biedrins stats this season:

13.1 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 2.1 bpg, .607 fgp.

WE NEED TO DO THIS TRADE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Biedrins gives us the size and length we desparately need, he rebounds better than Smoove, he blocks shots at about the same rate, he's still young with upside, and he even scores about the same per game but gives you over .600 percent shooting from the field.

Basically, that means Biedrins could replace Smoove's offensive production without all the terrible shots. And he fits in with our whole quick, long, athletic, and versatile thing because he's athletic and fairly mobile and can run the floor and guard two positions.

With Biedrins and Horford at the 4 and 5 spots, suddenly we would have more size at both those positions than almost any other team we played, but we really wouldn't have much of a drop-off in terms of quickness and athleticism, and we'd probably have a more efficient offense.

I'm down with this - please get it done!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

IN the tradition of HS posters fascination with stiffs. Why would we want a center from a team that believes that Al Harrington is a center?

---

Because our front office thinks that Al Horford is a center?

---

Yeah, because his performance the other night when Zaza returned certainly proved that he's a PF . He has played great defense and rebounded extremely well at the Center position, I still don't see how y'all think he can't play center, or should play PF because he's just as effective at either position..

SERIOUSLY - I WOULD DO THIS TRADE, SMOOVE FOR BIEDRINS STRAIGHT UP - RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Horford can play C...but I still think Horford plus Biedrins is a more effective, well-rounded and efficient front court than Smoove and Horford.

19.4 vs 13.1 ppg is not about the same (even without the assists)
3.6 vs 2.1 bpg is not about the same; 1.5bpg --- not anyone can have that

not to mentioned steals difference of 2spg in favor of Smith.

Quote:

---

i don't get the obsession with biedrins

he's a great rebounder for sure; tho horford won't be much worse

he doesn't bring the defense that smoove brings, nor the assists or steals or blocks

he doesn't play the man defense as good as horford

smoove is a very UNIQUE talent and he is only getting better every year...the last two games he showed that he is ready to start driving and not settle for jumpers and as he matures (still only 22), he will become one of the best players in this game

why trade that away?

---

I totally agree. Biedrins is only a decent player because of the system he plays in. G-State is so small upfront, that if anybody gets a rebound, it's probably going to be him anyway. He's not the type of player whose skills can translate to any team he plays on. Kind of like Boris Diaw.

Or maybe a better example is Al Harrington. Al is averaging 21 ppg - 7 rebs - and is shooting a career high 54% FG right now. If he's that good, we should be trading to get Al back in the mix here.

As far as Biedrins' defense goes, he's slipping in that department so far this season. Right now, opponents have an eFG% of 57% against him. In comparison, Horford is at 52%, Smith, Shelden and Marvin at 48%. Yes, he'll block some shots, but you also have to get stops in this league by plaing good "on-the-ball" defense.

And you pretty much get nothing from Biedrins on offense, unless he puts back offensive rebounds in the hole, or if a PG is setting him up for easy lay-ups. This guy has literally taken ONE SHOT outside of 5 feet from the basket. One.

There is no way in hell that you trade a Josh Smith + a 1st rounder, for that. No way. LOL @ bringing in ANOTHER young guy ( the draft pick ) to this team. That's the last thing we need right now. We need experienced guys that know how to play, and have no problem filling their roles.

There are a lot of obsessions on this board for players who are just marginal players that probably wouldn't help us much, especially if we have to trade a Smoove, Chill, or Marvin to get that player.

Guys like Luke Ridnour, Andre Miller, will not keep us from being an inconsistent team, because . . lol . . they're inconsistent themselves.

NO F-IN WAY YOU TRADE SMOOVE FOR THAT SKINNY SLIGHTLY MORE COORDINATED DEFENSIVE ZAZA.

I would love a Gasol for Smoove deal.

You guys are nucking futs to think we should do this trade. I hope Smoove stays for the long term. He is an Atlanta boy, has grown up with this franchise, and I hope he stays in the ATL for a LONG TIME.

Quote:

---

GS would trade Andris Biedrins for Smoove straight up. We wanted a future first rounder with some lottery protection throw in and they balked.

Personally I am not sure why GS would want to trade Biedrins as he is the perfect center for the kind of offense they run. If Atlanta can't (and by can't I do in fact mean they actually could but don't want to spend the actual money) match Josh's RFA offer then they will lose him for nothing.

Not too much else to report, that was the only thing worth noting. The Gasol front is still a possibility that Knight is trying to explore, the Bulls are doing the same just as quietly but the Grizz don't want to move him.

---

any news about woody getting fired?

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

i don't get the obsession with biedrins

he's a great rebounder for sure; tho horford won't be much worse

he doesn't bring the defense that smoove brings, nor the assists or steals or blocks

he doesn't play the man defense as good as horford

smoove is a very UNIQUE talent and he is only getting better every year...the last two games he showed that he is ready to start driving and not settle for jumpers and as he matures (still only 22), he will become one of the best players in this game

why trade that away?

---

I totally agree. Biedrins is only a decent player because of the system he plays in. G-State is so small upfront, that if anybody gets a rebound, it's probably going to be him anyway. He's not the type of player whose skills can translate to any team he plays on. Kind of like Boris Diaw.

Or maybe a better example is Al Harrington. Al is averaging 21 ppg - 7 rebs - and is shooting a career high 54% FG right now. If he's that good, we should be trading to get Al back in the mix here.

---

That's been my point exactly, Biedrins is helped offensively because he plays with Baron and on one of the fastest paced teams in the league. It's like he's playing for the PHX Suns, he WILL score on that team. Imagine what Josh Smith would do for them, he is the quintessential player for that system.

Biedrins offense has been absolutely DISGUSTING everytime I've seen him, he only scores on putbacks, garbage points, and perfect passes from teammates. He can't shoot free throws at all, and his form is just nasty. On our team, he would not get easy buckets AT ALL. LMAO at people comparing 13 ppg on GS to 19 on ATL.

Quote:

---

The more I think about it, the more I like it. Biedrins is a true center, Horford is a true PF, and Marvin is a true SF who is also a borderline PF. All of them can rebound and play defense, and all of them are team-oriented, and stay inside their role in the offense. If Law comes through at PG, we wouldn't have a weakness, except for head coach.

---

Biedrins is 6-11 . . and MIGHT be 235 pounds. In reality, Horford is a bigger player than he is.

He's not a true center. He's a PF playing center on a very small team that likes to run. Skilled post players pretty much aren't scared at all facing Biendrins.


vs Clippers:

Biedrins: 12 points - 7 rebounds . . Kaman: 26 points - 18 rebounds


vs Utah:

Biedrins: 14 points - 9 rebounds . . Okur: 28 points - 3 rebounds


vs Cleveland:

Biedrins: 12 points - 10 rebounds . . Big Z: 22 points - 14 rebounds


vs Dallas:

Biedrins: 9 points - 10 rebounds . . Diop: 4 points - 5 rebounds ( in 15 minutes )


vs Detroit:

Biedrins: 18 points - 11 rebounds . . Wallace: 22 points - 9 rebounds


vs Clippers:

Biedrins: 23 points - 18 rebounds . . Kaman: 20 points - 12 rebounds


vs Toronto:

Biedrins: 15 points - 14 rebounds . . Maceo Baston ( lol . . the forward from Michigan? WTF is he doing starting at center for the Raptors? ) 4 points - 3 rebounds ( in 13 minutes )



With Biedrins in the mix here, we're going to have the exact same problem in the post, whenever we go up against decent post players. Biedrins is the type of player you give up expiring contracts, or maybe Shelden + Salim for. You don't give up a starter, especially not a versatile one like Josh Smith, to bring him in.

We'd have to get lucky again in the draft if we traded Smoove for Biendrins + 1st rounder. We'd have to hope we land in the top 3, and then hope that Roy Hibbert or some other big center, was available with that pick.

It's funny because if you asked GS fans whether they would trade Beans straight-up for Josh Smith, they'd give you some of the same passionate "NO's" as you're reading on here. The truth is somewhere between the two extremes.

Again, if the Hawks are actively considering trading Smith, I think you can assume that either:

1. The AS is cheap/tied down financially, or
2. Josh Smith is a problem off the court.

I'd like to know more about those two things, but Sekou hasn't exactly been using his investigative reporting skills much lately.

Quote:

---

I would love a Gasol for Smoove deal.

---

Watched the Memphis game last night ( because SportSouth is KILLING ME by not showing Hawk games right now. I got a (( bleepin )) replay of the UT-Chattanooga vs Applachian St football game ). The Griz remind me of the Hawks so much.

It's no doubt they have the athletic talent. But they just can't close out game and they can't get stops when they need it the most. LOL . . and they also could use a BIG in the middle.

A Gasol - Smith trade, would meant that Smoove would be playing center for the Griz. LOL . . not sure how that would quite work out, but it would be intersting.

Like with the Hawks, the Griz TRY to play uptempo. And like with the Hawks, the Griz lose because they can't stop anybody.

Of course, we overate other players and undervalue ours.

I don't understand the comments about marketability. Smith is NOT AI. We are NOT selling out games. If we trade Smith for a center, then not only do we get an improvement at that position, but we get a legit PF too... Horford. It's 2 for 1. If Smith's talent never translates into wins (the modern version of perennial 20/10 SAR who never won anything while putting up great stats), then who cares how many stat columns he fills up?

(Has Smith ever won at a team level? Did any of his high school teams win anything, or his AAU Teams? Just curious if this guy has ever experience team success).

I'm not bumping for Biedrins, but the notion that Smith is somehow bringing tremendous attendance and therefore revenue seems like a reach.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Yes he is, you do not trade the face of this franchise unless it is for an All Star PG or C.

Biedrins he's ok nothing special..

---

Biedrins is a better young center than Bynum. He's only 21 and is already averaging 14/11/2. He's a better rebounder than Smith, a good shotblocker, and a true defensive center.

Look at some of the games he's had for GS:

Vs. LAC - 23/18/2
Vs. Detroit - 18/11/1
Vs. Denver - 31/10/1
Vs. SAS - 18/15/6
Vs. Milwaukee - 17/12/3
Vs. Sacramento - 20/14/3
Vs. Boston - 20/17/4
Vs. Seattle - 15/16/2
Vs. Memphis - 21/14/2
Vs. Washington - 24/12/0

Biedrins plays a position that is harder to fill and still has a ton of upside. Only Greg Oden is a better center prospect in the NBA.

---

I don't care unless we are getting Kobe or an All-Star PG or C. No thanks..

---

Bedrinas will be an allstar center this year.

Mark it down !

What centers are better then him in the West ?

Quote:

---

horford isn't better suited at pf guys

he played CENTER in college

he has put up 9/11 in the NBA at CENTER so far

he will do better against the 'centers' that are in the nba these days than the pfs like garnett anyway

---

Bedrinas should guard the Garnett types very well. He has the length to match them.

Then Horford guards the bruiser types likes Jefferson or Boozer.

I would be very hesistant to the deal straight up but I would think long and hard about it.

By the way, when is Bedrinas up for an extension ?

Yao
Amare
Okur
Duncan
Gasol
Kaman
Camby

Quote:

---

It would be stupid to trade Smoove for Biedrins.

Our need for a Center is not that great. Not so much so that we would give up the most marketable player since Dominique.. One who is starting to come into his own and one who's presence on the court makes so great of a difference.

It's stupid. And regardless of if GS don't give up the first. They can give up and unprotected first, what difference will it make if it's #23 overall?

---

Seems to me that Diesel and northcyde are the only ones with a brain in this thread!

I don't think we should trade our young emerging star and the face of the franchise for another soft euro center. Biedrins also sucks at freethrows and his rebounding numbers are inflated with Golden State and the pace they play at.

I much rather keep developing this year and pay Smoove his money and let Acie and Horford develop.

STAY THE COURSE!

we do not trade smoove for anyone not named dwight howard or lebron james or kobe bryant...

the kid is a beast in the making...did u see how he was taking over the milwaukee game?
how he changes the game on both sides of the floor when his head is into the game?
how he has a semblance of a post game now...

if we got rid of him...
and traded him for some scrub...
he'd come to philips and own us harder than damien wilkins...
and get a quadruple double or something...

It seems to me that only about 5 people in this thread have actually seen Beans play. He is NOT a soft Euro center, nor is he a scrub. He's a tireless worker (he's improved his free throw shooting each year), a good finisher inside, a great rebounder, a good shotblocker, athletic, can get up and down the court as well as just about any starting center in the league, and is still barely old enough to drink. He also moves extremely well (for a center) without the ball. Most of his points inside are easy points in the sense that Baron Davis & Co. often find him wide open, having seen him slip behind his man to the basket. He also handles the primary share of interior work on defense, because it's not like Al Harrington offers anything in the way of weakside help.

While I can completely understand not wanting to give Smith up for anything other than a proven veteran, Biedrins is about as good a center as you could ever hope to get in exchange for him. It's perfectly acceptable to simply not want to trade Smith, and you don't have to make trash up about the other team's player to justify it. Biedrins is as beloved by Warriors' fans as Smith is in Atlanta, and there's a reason for that.

Quote:

---

I just looked up Biedrins stats this season:

13.1 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 2.1 bpg, .607 fgp.

WE NEED TO DO THIS TRADE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Biedrins gives us the size and length we desparately need, he rebounds better than Smoove, he blocks shots at about the same rate, he's still young with upside, and he even scores about the same per game but gives you over .600 percent shooting from the field.

Basically, that means Biedrins could replace Smoove's offensive production without all the terrible shots. And he fits in with our whole quick, long, athletic, and versatile thing because he's athletic and fairly mobile and can run the floor and guard two positions.

With Biedrins and Horford at the 4 and 5 spots, suddenly we would have more size at both those positions than almost any other team we played, but we really wouldn't have much of a drop-off in terms of quickness and athleticism, and we'd probably have a more efficient offense.

I'm down with this - please get it done!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

When I first seen this thread I was like bye Josh, but now that I think about it we should wait for more offers.

Smith would play PF on Memphis next to Darko. I just think it's going to be extremely hard to get Gasol. Chicago reportedly tried to get him last year and West started the negotiations with Deng and Ben Gordon...hopefully Chris Wallace isn't as tough to negotiate a trade with.

Not much to add here except I agree 100%. Biedrins is a fantastic young center. "Soft Euro" is honestly an absurd term to use to describe his play. He actually plays so intense and physical the coaches have to get on him to lay off.

I can understand why Hawks fans would hate to do this trade but realistically it would give us a stable rotation with all five players matched to their natural positions.

Quote:

---

Not much to add here except I agree 100%. Biedrins is a fantastic young center. "Soft Euro" is honestly an absurd term to use to describe his play. He actually plays so intense and physical the coaches have to get on him to lay off.

I can understand why Hawks fans would hate to do this trade but realistically it would give us a stable rotation with all five players matched to their natural positions.

---

I agree with the reason hell I'm for the trade but I I think we should sit on this offer and wait to see what else is on the market. I think we can get more from GS. It's clear they feel they can replace AB hell they offered him but he really fits our biggest needs and brings a lot to the table talent wise.

You aren't getting a better OFFER for Smith. This is the best the Hawks could realistically expect another team to offer for Smith. Now if the Hawks want to try and package Smith for an unhappy all-star like Gasol that's a different story...but don't expect BK to be getting offers such as Carmelo or CP3 for Smith any time soon.

I also don't think enough people are realizing how lop sided this is. Whether this makes the Hawks a better team is debatable(I think it could). This trade makes no sense for the Warriors because they would be forced to play an undersized PF at Center FULL TIME. It would never work yet some people expect GSW to offer even more.

I have always been a huge Smoove fan but Biedrins is a great young center that would immediately balance our team out. Horford and Biedrins would clean up the boards and give the Hawks a tough young defensive 4/5 combo and help clarify everyones roles in a true 1 though 5 lineup.

Sometimes to get quality you have to give up quality. In my opinion if we can trade a 3/4 rising star tweener for a rising star 5 we should strongly consider it.

Quote:

---

You aren't getting a better OFFER for Smith. This is the best the Hawks could realistically expect another team to offer for Smith

---

I would agree with this. However i still don't like the deal. People are assuming that Horford will just all of a sudden become a scorer when he hasn't been his whole career.

We need Smiths offense because not only does he score but he also forces the D to react to him and creates opportunities for other players.

Some call him an "inefficient" scorer but that is for one simple reason, he takes too many long jumpers. Take away his shots outside 18 feet and his shooting percentage is fine. That is not a tough correction to make.

It is funny how many people don't realize what we have in JJ and Smith. I like Biedrins a lot but the idea of trading Smith for him isn't very appealing.

Quote:

---

You aren't getting a better OFFER for Smith. This is the best the Hawks could realistically expect another team to offer for Smith. Now if the Hawks want to try and package Smith for an unhappy all-star like Gasol that's a different story...but don't expect BK to be getting offers such as Carmelo or CP3 for Smith any time soon.

I also don't think enough people are realizing how lop sided this is. Whether this makes the Hawks a better team is debatable(I think it could). This trade makes no sense for the Warriors because they would be forced to play an undersized PF at Center FULL TIME. It would never work yet some people expect GSW to offer even more.

---

The way the Warriors play they don't need a true Center, I don't know what there going to do but AB is a major KOO for the Hawks, I would do this trade in a second, it's too good to be true, like those trades in NBA 2k8 they are offered to you unless there is something I don't know that the Warriors and Hawks do. Zaza can get traded as well.

Over the last 2 1/2 games smith has scored 76 pts shooting 57% and has gotten to the line 36 times.

He has only had 3 bad shooting games this season and in each case he filled up the stat sheet in other ways. It seems some people want to criticize Smith when he shoots poorly but don't want to give him credit when he shoots well.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

You aren't getting a better OFFER for Smith. This is the best the Hawks could realistically expect another team to offer for Smith

---

I would agree with this. However i still don't like the deal. People are assuming that Horford will just all of a sudden become a scorer when he hasn't been his whole career.

We need Smiths offense because not only does he score but he also forces the D to react to him and creates opportunities for other players.

Some call him an "inefficient" scorer but that is for one simple reason, he takes too many long jumpers. Take away his shots outside 18 feet and his shooting percentage is fine. That is not a tough correction to make.

It is funny how many people don't realize what we have in JJ and Smith. I like Biedrins a lot but the idea of trading Smith for him isn't very appealing.

---

Totally agree.

+ Smith is about to make a hyper-leap. This is a wrong time to trade him as his value is about to go up a lot. Biedrin's trade value won't make as sharp an upswing as Smoove's before the trading deadline.

Patience. At the least we'll know about Horford's value a little bit more.

We need to see Smoove under a real coach first.

Yes...Smith is likely a better player than Biedrins but once you consider positions it's likely a wash. Brandan Wright,Al Harrington,and Josh Smith are undersized PF's who can play a little 3...playing any of them at the 5 full time would be a disaster regardless of how fast they play.

I would also consider doing it even though I like Josh but I have to question why the other team would do it considering that it makes no sense for them what so ever. Why would GSW even consider moving Biedrins especially when they are loaded at SG/SF/PF. Biedrins and Baron Davis are the only two players they can't afford to lose because they have no one that could step up and replace them at the two most important positions ...point guard and center.

Quote:

---

Yes...Smith is likely a better player than Biedrins but once you consider positions it's likely a wash. Brandan Wright,Al Harrington,and Josh Smith are undersized PF's who can play a little 3...playing any of them at the 5 full time would be a disaster regardless of how fast they play.

I would also consider doing it even though I like Josh but I have to question why the other team would do it considering that it makes no sense for them what so ever. Why would GSW even consider moving Biedrins especially when they are loaded at SG/SF/PF. Biedrins and Baron Davis are the only two players they can't afford to lose because they have no one that could step up and replace them at the two most important positions ...point guard and center.

---

There build on athletcism and there is no player more athletic then Josh Smith, I'm not even a fan of his and I know that, he would trive in that offense, defensively there a help off the ball team so they don't play much man to man anyway, watching Josh Smith play this season proved he would do well on a team like that with structure. He would never do really good here becuase he has too much power here and the only way that changes is if he's gone. He would be nothing but a more athletic less smarter SAR on this team. He really fits GS more then any other team in the league.

God, we should have re-signed Smoove pre-season. Doh.

If the Hawks made this trade, I believe it would go down in the same catagory as the Nique/Manning, Smitty/Rider trades. In an effort to develop a "better" starting five, Smith would go to Golden State, blow up, and Hawks fans would whine "boy, we should have kept him." Go to any barbershop in the ATL and you'll hear fans moan about all the players the Hawks let get away. I'm a native of this city and whether it's been the Braves with Brett Butler, the Falcons with Favre, or the Hawks and take your pick of a player, this city's teams have been notorious for giving up on talent too soon, only see the players develop elsewhere. The management teams spin it in a way where a part of the city finds a way to say "yeah, that makes sense."
Then, the player who gets traded "blows up" and we wonder why we didn't keep them. Our teams have bypassed, let go of too early, or traded away good talent time and time again and all the ATL has to show for it is one championship. The Braves is the only team here that finally got it right with personel decisions (for the most part).

Bottom line, something tells me, from what I've seen and what I believe, that Josh is something special. No knock on Biedrens, but if we're going to trade away a guy who is 21 (or under), whose scoring average is climbing, is in the top three in steals and blocks, and is constantly improving, hold off until you find a sweeter deal for someone who can really make you competitive. I don't believe Biedrens makes this team that much better (no knock on him). This deal smells of Nique and Manning. Nique wanted a new contract (Smith). The Hawks didn't want to pay him. Manning was available and "seemed" to fit the team concept and system better than Nique (like Biendrens). Nique was improving in all statistical and team catagories (Like Josh). Hawks made the trade anyway and sends Nique to basketball's Babylon through Pete Babcock, a questionable GM (Billy). This smells of disaster.

This ain't the move to make.

Nice thoughts you have there but all is for nothing since this trade will never go through. BK wanted 1st rnder + Biendrens according to Soln and GS refuses.

I emailed Sekou about the rumor. We'll see if he has anything to say?

Has anyone answered the question of why GS would want to trade him if he is so great??????

just the fact that he entertained it is frightening enough for me.

I can see it now...Lines of fans with Biedrens jerseys on.

Couldn't wait to hear 3D struggle on whether to pronounce his name BEE-Drends or BE-AT-RICH

Or maybe his nick name would be BIYATCH-TRICH



Has Pryzstiff fallen out of favor with HS? I haven't heard a trade scenerio involving that stiff in months.

From my perspective on the matter, Smoove being the better player is the main issue. I don't see Biedrins as being some prototypical "great" Center. I see him as being a PF turned Center just like all the rest. He's a decent enough shot blocker, but is he really better than Smoove? The fact that Smoove is putting the ball on the floor and driving instead of shooting those god awful threes make me say... NO Way.

I Understand the want to have the great Classical team. Heck, I preach it. However, I don't think that you take a cut in talent and marketing just to get it. Neither Al or Marvin has shown me enough to make me say Away with Smoove.

I can't say for sure, but I was watching some of a GS game the other day and Patrick OBryant doesn't look so bad. He's not good, but he's going to be a real Center.

Let's face the facts though...


Biedrin's #s are inflated by the brand of uptempo GS runs. Basically, Biedrins is a good runner in a running system. GS does a good job of getting him the ball. BUT.. He can't stop anybody.

Smoove on that team for Biedrins would be the cat's meow!! Nellie would be proclaimed Executive of the YEAR and we'd be the punchline (Worse than CP3).

Quote:

---

I haven't heard a trade scenerio involving that stiff in months.

---

You do realize that Oden is out for the season right?

How dumb could the Hawks be?

Where is AB even mentioned, outside of GS? And yes I have seen him play. And there is a reason, he's outta the lineup...when they go small ball. There is also a reason they wanna get rid of him. Why Smoove? Why trade..the best all around player we have....for another teams 5th best. And yes he's the 5th best player on that team. Quit reading stats and watch his games

This has disater written all over it. Which sounds like something...this franchise would do.

Although, I don't think this would ever happen.

And please show me...where GS fans value him, so much. For some reason, my co-worker got real excited when I mentioned this move...I wonder why

You're preaching to the choir, here. This move reeks of Nique for Manning to me. After seeing what Diaw could do in Phoenix, I shudder to think of what numbers Smith would put up in Nellie's system (with a legit PG no less). While I'm not the biggest fan in terms of Smith's shot selection, he has all the makings of a guy who can average double-doubles of the 20/13 kind for the next decade, especially if a 'real' head coach was here (cough cough).

You don't move a guy like that for a functional center, even if its Biedrins; you just don't. If he was a problem in the locker room or wanted out of here, that's a different story. But right now, I'd need a little more...

Josh Smith is being very underrated in this thread. Yes AB is a better rebounder and inside scorer, but if Smoove left tell me, who's gonna replace his weak-side shot blocking, who's gonna replace his energy, can AB guard the perimeter, can he beat player off the dribble and take it to the whole. Can he finish like Josh in the open court, who will replace the passion that Josh brings to the table. This is a bad trade, that shouldn't even be considered.

Quote:

---

Josh Smith is being very underrated in this thread. Yes AB is a better rebounder and inside scorer, but if Smoove left tell me, who's gonna replace his weak-side shot blocking,

---

Biedrins.

Quote:

---

who's gonna replace his energy

---

Biedrins. (Are you sure you've seen him?)

Quote:

---

can AB guard the perimeter

---

Umm, the Hawks' perimeter players?

Quote:

---

can he beat player off the dribble and take it to the whole.

---

If Smith did that with consistency, no one would ever consider trading him.

Quote:

---

Can he finish like Josh in the open court,

---

Yes. He's a good dunker.

Quote:

---

who will replace the passion that Josh brings to the table.

---

I couldn't care less, because passion doesn't win games. Defense does.

No disrespect at all but, what you posted...proves--that you haven't seen AB that many times. He's a bigger body yes....but he plays much worse interior Defense. We are better off with the lineup we have.

Just look at the stats of players...who've faced him this year.

But as usual...this fanbase overhypes another teams player and undervalue ours.

I like his game and think he works hard. He also fits with what Golden State likes to do.

But why would they want to trade their top center for Josh Smith? Because they can't handle Utah and need someone who can muscle up with Boozer and Milsap. Now I'm not saying Smith is a rebounding monster but he can use his strength to bother Utah more so than Biedrens.

Perhaps the soft euro comment was a bit harsh but at the end of the day I'd take Smith over Biedrens every time.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

who will replace the passion that Josh brings to the table.

---

I couldn't care less, because passion doesn't win games. Defense does.

---

By making this statement you wouldn't make this trade.

MrH., I think you're just way off on this one. Biendrins is 6-11 . . 235. That's pretty much the same size as Marcus Camby.

The knock on Camby is, that while he's a very good shot blocker, he's not that great of a man defender. Good post players can muscle and push Camby around. And that's exactly what they do to Biendrins.

Boris Diaw damn near looked like an all-star two years ago in the playoffs, when he played "point" center for Phoenix. 19 ppg in the playoffs for that kid? And why? Because he was able to take advantage of bigger centers, and use his quickness to score. It's all about the Phoenix system, when it comes to Diaw.

The same goes for Biendrins. His numbers are greatly enhanced by that Golden St. system. And until I see this guy really hunker down on defense, and actually stop a good post player from having his way on him, I can't even consider trading a talent like Smith, for a role player like Biendrins. He couldn't do anything with Utah's big guys last year in the playoffs. 6.4 ppg and 6.3 rebs in the entire playoffs last year, while not being able to stop anybody.

You know who Biendrins is? He's a less skilled offensive, better skilled defensive version of Troy Murphy. A nice player to have on your team, but NOT a player to trade a starter for.

It'll be totally different if you were talking about adding him, without trading Smith. Then you would be getting somewhere, because we could either start him in place of ZaZa, or bring him off the bench as a decent defensive big. But to subtract Smith to add Biendrins? No way.


******


The bad thing about this thread, is that Smoove is almost certain to struggle against San Antonio. Smith will look great against bad defensive PFs, but look bad against PFs that can play good defense. Tim Duncan will probably be on him, and he always struggles with the Spurs.

It was actually ZaZa that played well against the Spurs last February. I think Smoove's career high vs the Spurs is 9 points, in that same game last February. He shot 3 - 14 in that game. So it will be interesting to see how he plays against them in a couple of days.

Have any of these people who are slobbering all over Biedrins actually seen him play?

He is not a defensive presence, not even close. He is the anchor for one of the worst defenses in NBA history. The thing that would be appealing about Biedrins are his height and his age.

We would be a worse defensive team with Biedrins instead of Smoove... why the hell do you think the NBA's WORST defensive team is trying to get Smoove for Biedrins?... to improve their offense? no. They need to get better at defense and J-Smoove looks like a future Defensive player of the year, while Biedrins looks like another undersized center.

Oh, and Biedrins' 2.1 blocks in 37 minutes a game is not even close to impressive for someone his size. Biedrins ranks 28th in Blocks per 48 minutes... behind other Defensive monsters like: Andrew Bogut, Chris Kaman, Yi Jianlian, David Harrison, Amare Stoudemire, Kendrick Perkins, Dwayne Jones, Stromile Swift, Darko Milicic etc...

I love that the only proof that mrHonline gives for Biedrins being a good defender is an 8 game log... that just reeks of an agenda, not to mention he brings up the "fact" that Smoove is hard to get along with, when the only people in the entire organization he has ever had any kind of beef with are Woody and AJ... (the worst coach in the NBA and the player who WALKED out on the team... obviously Smoove is a punk ) J-Smoove is well liked by all his teamates (except perhaps by Anthony, "I'm so good I can show up to games whenever I like, Johsnon). Erratic offensive play is the only real point that he brings up. That's a valid point, but, after seeing him in his last three games, I don't see why it is hard to assume that he will get better at it.

After the Seattle and the Milwaukee game it amazes me how people can continue to underestimate Smooves' value to our team. He is the only reason we are not ahead of Golden State in Points per game allowed.

If Golden State's package included a first rounder, I would consider it... but there is no way, in a million years, that I would take Biedrins for Smoove straight up.

Quote:

---

The more I think about it, the more I like it. Biedrins is a true center, Horford is a true PF, and Marvin is a true SF who is also a borderline PF. All of them can rebound and play defense, and all of them are team-oriented, and stay inside their role in the offense. If Law comes through at PG, we wouldn't have a weakness, except for head coach.

---

ALL TRUE so just get us a new coach first before we make any trade.

Quote:

---

Bedrinas will be an allstar center this year.

Mark it down !

What centers are better then him in the West ?

---

duncan is on the ballot as a center
yao
amare
gasol
okur
etc
etc

Quote:

---

Bedrinas will be an allstar center this year.

Mark it down !

What centers are better then him in the West ?

---

Let see... First and foremost... Yao will be starting Center in the West.
Second... Duncan will be starting PF.

Also at PF you have: Carlos Boozer, Dirk Nitwitski, David West, and Al Jefferson

At C you have: Kaman, Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge, Camby, and even AL Harrington!

Somebody will get snubbed but Biedrins won't be an allstar.

Quote:

---

Second... Duncan will be starting PF.

---

actually, duncan is on ballot as Center, so he will either have to beat yao to start at center, or he will be a backup...he cannot be the starting pf when he's not on the ballot at pf

also, u left amare off ur list of centers who make it waaaayy before biedrins

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Bedrinas will be an allstar center this year.

Mark it down !

What centers are better then him in the West ?

---

Let see... First and foremost... Yao will be starting Center in the West.
Second... Duncan will be starting PF.

Also at PF you have: Carlos Boozer, Dirk Nitwitski, David West, and Al Jefferson

At C you have: Kaman, Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge, Camby, and even AL Harrington!

Somebody will get snubbed but Biedrins won't be an allstar.

---

he is not even the best center on his team since Harrington is apparently a center on that squad as well.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Smoove because I like him but from a "fairness" perspective, this is certainly a fair offer. When you throw in the fact that Biedrins plays C and that good C's are hard to come by, it is MORE than fair.

All that said, if BK could wrangle that 1st out of GS, I'd have to strongly consider pulling the trigger. This is no knock against Smoove - I'd trade any player on our roster other than JJ for Biedrins/1st.

Caveat - I would have to get some kind of indication as to what it would take to resign Beidrins before I would pull the trigger on a deal. If I have to overpay, I'm going to overpay Smoove all day.

it's been 9 games; how did their eff ratings compare last year?

if the guy is having an above-average 9 games, then it's a little early to say it's a 'fair' trade

it. I would keep Smoove rather than trade him for Biedrins straight up because I have an emotional investment with Smoove and I think his upside is higher than Biedrins'. I also really enjoy watching Smoove play even if he does frustrate me at times.

Still, if Smoove for Biedrins is not a fair offer, what is? Both are 21 (Smoove is 4 months older), both have tons of upside and both have flaws in their games. Both also have All Star potential. I think Smoove's upside is higher but I think Biedrin's upside is sufficiently high when you consider that he plays a premium position that the offer is "fair."

I think more than me having an "emotional investment" with Smoove, the thing that makes me not want to pull the trigger is the fact that I know what Smoove is, because I've seen him with my own eyes on a consistent basis, and I feel I have a good idea about how good he can become. I haven't seen Biedrins play as much as Smoove (not even close to be honest), but when I have seen him he has been a total non factor on defense... that, plus the fact that he is getting 37 minutes a game at Center for a team that is allowing over 110 points a game leads me to believe he is an overrated defender. The main thing people have to think about, when they consider Biedrins, is how his numbers would translate to our team... Biedrins right now is scoring 13 a game and shooting 60% from the field... this with Baron Davis at the point and Don Nelson at the helm... does anybody really believe that his offensive production won't suffer with Lue at the point and with Woody calling the plays???

I'm sure if you ask the experts some would tell you Smoove is the player with better potential, and others would tell you that Biedrins is... personally I go with Smoove just due to the fact that he has put up better numbers (last year) in a less structured (understatement of the century alert) system.

After further research....I'm calling Bullshit on this one. I won't say what led me to this...Bullshit, it is.

Bullshit on the trade rumor or on my post?

The rumor...sorry

of becoming a perennial All-Star who has the ability to change the game in so many ways, in both good ways and bad ways. I don't believe that us fans can say whether this trade is the right move for the Hawks simply because we don't know the truth behind the rumors of him being a malcontent and this and that. It's hard for me to believe that he is a problem that can't be accepted considering how much he does for the team, but there is a chance that he might really be a major pain in the *ss for BK, Woody, his teammates, etc. That is the only reason I would trade Smoove and even in that instance I would have to get equal value for him.

Biedrins, while not as flashy, is every bit the equal value that Smoove us and he mans a premium position and has plenty of room for growth. Other than Dwight Howard who else is putting up the numbers that Biedrins is at the center position? While not as gifted offensively as Gasol is, Biedrins is a significantly better defensive player and it's hard to imagine that pairing him with Horford wouldn't make for an intimidating front line.

Also, consider that Biedrins is putting up these numbers while playing on a team full of ball hogs and chuckers. If he can get 13+ ppg with Harrington, Jax, Davis, and Ellis imagine what he could do here.

So, if Smoove is a problem behind the scenes I would trade him for Biedrins and a future first. Otherwise, we keep him and watch him become one of the best 5 tool players the NBA has ever seen.

I can agree with this post, except for the part where you say Biedrins would probably have better numbers in our offense than in Golden States'... if you check the stats of Golden States' players FGA per game, you'll find that they have better shot distribution than the Hawks. Also, Golden State actually runs an offense, which makes it easier for players to get buckets. They have a higher team FG%, PPG, and, more Assists than the Hawks, and they are getting a million times better PG play.

I agree that Biedrins would eventually improve the scoring numbers that he is putting up now, were he to become a Hawk, because he is so young and has such room to grow, but I really do think there would be a steeper adjustment curve that Biedrins would have to go through in coming here than most people think. On the other hand, Smoove is already showing (at least IMO)that he can contribute to our team on defense and offense... So my thinking is, Why mess with a good thing?