Chris Paul's playoff debut: 35 points, 10 assists, 4 steals, ONE turnover. he'll finish in the top 3 in the MVP race (with a very legit argument as to why he should be the MVP).

as a Hawks fan, it KILLS me to watch him, and yet he's SO good, as a basketball fan, it's impossible not to watch and admire his play.

the post-hoc rationalizations (ATL stinking for another year allowed the Hawks to get Horford) don't really remove the bitter taste when you watch Paul...

Hindsight is always 20-20. M. Jordan did not go @ #1. Imagine that!

MW isn't a bad player. Alomost everyone thought he should be the pick for Atlanta.
Yet, CP3 is precieved now as the player the Hawks passed on to draft MW.

Can any one honestly say that they knew CP3 would be the greatest NBA player
who ever lived, which most fans who point out our miss, seem to believe when they
reverently mention his name.

CP3 almost singlehandedly destroyed Dallas tonight. He was awesome! No doubt
about that.

No, fans will never forgive the Atlanta Hawks for passing on CP3 and they will
always bring it up when something like tonight happens. Then, for some reason,
MW will be pointed out as the reason CP3 is not a Hawk.

We shouldn't blame MW. It's not his fault. Yet, we do.

Get over it.

What's funny is how selective the memory of a lot of people is concerning the 2005 draft. MOST people wanted Bogut but realized he wasn't available. MW was clearly the 2nd choice, Deron was probably the 3rd choice (he was actually my choice) and a lot of people felt that Felton would be a better PG than Paul because Paul wouldn't be able to defend in the NBA. Almost every mock draft had Bogut/Marvin going 1/2 in some order and yet people trash the Hawks time and again for passing on Paul. Has Marvin become the player we all thought or hoped he would? Of course not, but he is much closer to being that player than Paul is to the player we all thought he would be.

while Marvin was listed on many draft boards as one of the top 2-3 players, ATL was expected to fill its PG needs by many. the fact that that the next two picks were PGs - D Williams then C Paul - is fairly strong evidence that the top two PGs were also considered among the best players. this isn't a case of some 2nd roundc choice proving everyone wrong. in the days before the draft, there were plenty of people - on ESPN, etc - saying ATL should choose a PG to fill the obvious need. this wasn't after-the-fact. it was before and during the draft.

what i don't get from your post is the last two sentences: "Has Marvin become the player we all thought or hoped he would? Of course not, but he is much closer to being that player than Paul is to the player we all thought he would be."

huh? if the consensus was that MW was the 2nd best choice (after Bogut), how can it be that he's "closer to being what was expected" than Paul? shouldn't he further along than he is given how he was projected? and as i noted, Paul wasn't considered chopped-liver. he was the 4th overall choice, not some late pick who shocked everyone.

the following is from ESPN's 2005 Draft coverage:

"The Hornets are the big winners early on in the draft. They get an elite point guard at No. 4..."

this isn't a review years later. it's the day after the draft.

It doesn't matter who the people on this board would have selected. The people on this board aren't getting paid to make the correct selections. Billy Knight is.

Go find some mock drafts from that time where Paul was expected to be the 2nd pick. You might find a few, but the vast majority had Bogut and Marvin as the consensus top two choices and Marvin was almost unanimously predicted to be the best player in 3-5 years. You weren't a member here at the time but I can assure you that people were all over the board about who they wanted but there was certainly not a large percentage of people calling for Paul over Marvin and not even over Deron. Deron was definitely the favorite PG of the Squawk and it was a toss up between Paul and Felton here.

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huh? if the consensus was that MW was the 2nd best choice (after Bogut), how can it be that he's "closer to being what was expected" than Paul?

It means that Paul is significantly better than what most expected of him. Marvin is not as good as was expected but surely not as far below expectations as Paul is above expectations.

Of course not and this is not me saying Knight should be given a pass for missing on Paul and Deron, I just find it funny that the same people (here) who slam the Hawks for not taking Paul are the same ones who were NOT in the Paul camp at draft time.

unfortunately, the fact that he's exceeded expectations as the #4 pick doesn't make it any easier watching him play so well.

it's not Marvin's fault. but like many draft-day stories, he will always be compared to the PGs that went next in terms of his production and contribution to his team's success.

#2 picks kinda have to be stars to justify where they were picked. may not be fair, but it's what happens.

Agreed, I love watching Paul and Deron play but I will always regret that they aren't the PG of the Hawks. Nothing short of the Hawks winning the title with Marvin playing a huge part will ever help to justify the pick, but if there is any consolation at least Marvin isn't a bust and has gotten better every year. I'm not in the "Woodson doesn't develop young talent" camp but if he is fired this offseason let's hope that is the case for why Marvin hasn't developed as fast as we thought he would.

I think the only way to ever live it down is to have Marvin keep progressing to the point where he would play a big role in leading us to a championship. I mean look at Darko Milicic, who currently is about 10X as big a bust as Marvin is, and Darko was chosen 2nd too, immediately ahead of Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, and Dwayne Wade. But yet you never really hear the Pistons getting any crap for selecting Darko, because the very next year they went out and won the NBA Finals.....and that's really a great way and possibly the only way to shut up all your critics. And it's not like Darko helped them win that championship- he was pretty much a total non-factor that season and that playoff run. But the Pistons were able to win it all despite blowing a #2 pick like that- so everybody seemed to forgive and forget. It really didn't even matter that he busted so badly, because they won and they continue to be a winning team in spite of that.

honestly, I dont think anyone thought CP3 was gonna be THIS good..by that I mean the best PG in the NBA in 3 yrs! MW isnt that bad but of course he isnt no CP3 or Deron Williams. but you just gotta get over it man and deal with what you got..for now, lets just talk playoffs..be happy that we're hear and hope that MW shows us something

Who cares about what could of been. There is nothing we can do to change that now. I like Marvin. I hope he steps up and drops that money jumpshot and grabs rebounds throughout the entire playoffs. I wish him the best

I'm tired of hearing about this and i'm one of the few that wanted Paul back then and that's because I didn't know who the others were.I never saw a Utah game or wherever Bogut is from.Marvin was a frickin backup that never did anything,he never jumped out as a future superstar.Deron was pretty good but I never thought he'd be this good,that could be because of Dee Brown and Luther Head playing in the backcourt with him.Dee was more flashy and Head was the 3 point specialist.I saw alot of Wake Forest games and I knew Paul would be a superstar and I knew we needed a PG.Ever since then i've wanted a PG in every draft.If I was GM I would have taken Marcus Williams instead of Shelden (I would have been off).and this year I would have taken Conley but now i'm fine with Horford and Law.Law surprised me with his game.I thought he was just an undersized SG but I think he'll be a great PG in this league in a little bit.

There was more than one team that passed on CP3. Portland traded down to get Martell Webster!!!!! Milwaukee picked Bogut. Still the Hawks are saddled with the label of passing on Paul, and we will not live it down ever. In the NBA the team with the best player is more likely to win. Passing on a superstar is more costly in the NBA, and therefore more memorable. How long have people been talking about Portland passing on MJ?

The truth is we passed on a superstar that could have made our franchise for years, and the only thing that will alleviate that is winning.

Milwaukee didn't need a PG,but would love a superstar.It wasn't about superstar status.It was just the fact we needed a PG bad as hell,yet we took a SF while we already had Harrington,Donta Smith and the year before took 2 in Childess and Smith who both had good rookie years.Milwaukee had TJ Ford and Maurice Williams at the time.NO needed a PG to replace Baron and took him.Utah needed a PG to replace STockton and took one.We needed a PG to replace a guy that left years ago and we took a damn SF.The year after we still needed a PG and we took a damn stiff PF that we reached like hell to get.The year after that we still needed a PG and we took another damn PF(that happened to be a beast) and used the 11 th pick on PG and never played him.

They don't say anything about the Bucks or Blazers because they didn't need a pg as bad as us.The Bucks had TJ ford and Mo Williams, and The Blazer had just drafted Telfair straight out of highschool the year before. We needed a pg more than anyone else, and needed a sf the least.

During the draft alot of people here wanted Marvin , but before the season ended nobody was talking about him.All the draft talk here was about Paul, Deron, and Bogut.
It think alot people here wanted Paul until he kicked that guy in the nuts during a game.

I heard Skip Prosser say that even he was surprised how well Paul played in his rookie season, and he was Paul's college coach. Deron was the more "logical" selection than Paul for this team, because of his size and scouts thought that he would have been a better defender than Paul. IMHO, saying that we should have taken Paul over Deron is truly using 20/20 hindsight. If you really wanted to take a PG over the clear #2 talent, then Deron would have been the most sensible selection.

And I doubt that Utah fans spend much time on this issue, not when Deron took them to the conference finals last season and will likely go deeper this year than Paul. Deron may never be an MVP candidate, but his team may continue to enjoy more successs and isn't that the point?

I'm a hawks fan and yet, I think that should be criticized more for the decision they made to take Marvin over Chris Paul. The decision was EXTREMELY QUESTIONABLE at best. To begin with, you drafted two guys the year before who played the small forward position. They wanted to say Josh Childress was a two guard, fine. But, Josh Smith came straight outta high school and did an EXCELLENT JOB playing that position his rookie year and was clearly the future at that position. To turnaround and draft another small forward with that high of pick showed an utter lack of appreciation for what Josh did his rookie year and a lack of confidence in his ability to get better.

Secondly, Chris Paul PROVED himself the best point guard for three years in the ACC. He came in and gave the hawks HIS BEST WORKOUT and even publicly made it known that he was PRAYING for the hawks to take him. On top of that, the hawks needed a point guard so bad, it was even funny.

For those reasons alone, the hawks will continue to be criticized for such a poor decision. It's not Marvin's fault, but managements. I think Billy Knight's supposed comments about moving Josh Smith to the 3 and moving Marvin to the bench if they get a decent center next year is an admitance that he made a very poor decision there. But hey, we all make mistakes. However, we have to deal with the fallout when we do and especially when we make ones that fly in the face of common sense. That's the way it is.

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I'm a hawks fan and yet, I think that should be criticized more for the decision they made to take Marvin over Chris Paul. The decision was EXTREMELY QUESTIONABLE at best. To begin with, you drafted two guys the year before who played the small forward position. They wanted to say Josh Childress was a two guard, fine. But, Josh Smith came straight outta high school and did an EXCELLENT JOB playing that position his rookie year and was clearly the future at that position. To turnaround and draft another small forward with that high of pick showed an utter lack of appreciation for what Josh did his rookie year and a lack of confidence in his ability to get better.

Don't forget Diaw who was a first rounder the year before and we also had Al Harrington on the roster. Considering how unproven Marvin was, didn't start, losing high school team, and choking in the NCAA Tourney I honestly don't know what BK was thinking.

I'll probably never get past this pick.

Paul actually came out as a sophomore

All I know is that Paul and MW got to the playoff for the first time at the same time. Unless Paul wins a championship I could give a rat's azz

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All I know is that Paul and MW got to the playoff for the first time at the same time. Unless Paul wins a championship I could give a rat's azz

cosign

yeah except.Without Paul NO is not where they are,without Marvin we're still where we are.

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All I know is that Paul and MW got to the playoff for the first time at the same time. Unless Paul wins a championship I could give a rat's azz

This is such a loser response. Have you listened to it? We had 5 Sfs on the roster when we drafted Marvin. We had NO PGs. Not good ones.

Paul and Marvin did get to the playoffs... BUT Paul got there as a candidate for League MVP. Marvin got there as the 4th option on a team that Limped into the playoffs with a losing record.

You say you can give a rats ass... Cool. Noted. However, don't complain about Bibby, Speedy, Salim or Law...because these guys became necessary because of the goof that we made drafting Marvin.

No a loser response is to [censored] about something that can't be changed. Marvin is not the MVP candidate that Paul is but there is no evidence that Paul would have achieved that here. If Dallas would have known that Nash would be the player he would be he would not be in Phx. Joe Johnson should probably still be a Celtic, but there is no evidence that he'd be the all star he is now if he stayed in Boston.

But at the end of the day, I will judge the wisdom of our choice based upon playoff success. If Paul on a team with 2 allstars, Peja and one of the league's best rebounders gets eliminated in round 1 and we beat the Celtics in round 1 should we still [censored] and moan about not drafting Paul?

Until Paul is holding an Obrien trophy before Marvin I don't give a rat's azz.

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No a loser response is to [censored] about something that can't be changed. Marvin is not the MVP candidate that Paul is but there is no evidence that Paul would have achieved that here. If Dallas would have known that Nash would be the player he would be he would not be in Phx. Joe Johnson should probably still be a Celtic, but there is no evidence that he'd be the all star he is now if he stayed in Boston.

But at the end of the day, I will judge the wisdom of our choice based upon playoff success. If Paul on a team with 2 allstars, Peja and one of the league's best rebounders gets eliminated in round 1 and we beat the Celtics in round 1 should we still [censored] and moan about not drafting Paul?

Until Paul is holding an Obrien trophy before Marvin I don't give a rat's azz.

Peja wasn't there when Paul got there lol.and David West wasn't an all-star.Tyson Chandler wasn't there either.All Paul needed was a coach to trust him and give him the reigns of the team like Byron Scott did.Jerry Sloan did the same with Deron,it was delayed half of his rookie year but it still happened.In our case Acie is buried on the bench.NO has Paul and West,Utah has Williams and Boozer.If we get rid of Woody we'll have Law and Horford.

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No a loser response is to [censored] about something that can't be changed. Marvin is not the MVP candidate that Paul is but there is no evidence that Paul would have achieved that here. If Dallas would have known that Nash would be the player he would be he would not be in Phx. Joe Johnson should probably still be a Celtic, but there is no evidence that he'd be the all star he is now if he stayed in Boston.

But at the end of the day, I will judge the wisdom of our choice based upon playoff success. If Paul on a team with 2 allstars, Peja and one of the league's best rebounders gets eliminated in round 1 and we beat the Celtics in round 1 should we still [censored] and moan about not drafting Paul?

Until Paul is holding an Obrien trophy before Marvin I don't give a rat's azz.

Who said anything about changing it? It should be ACKNOWLEDGED.

You know when you say, I can give a rat's azz... That's loser talk translated... I don't care to acknowledge how utterly stupid that pick was. Instead, I will act as though it didn't happen and will criticize anybody who bring it up because it can't be changed.

Well, Look around Jimmy Jack. We should start acknowledging it. Marvin's presence is responsible for the lost of several players already. We're waiting on him to all the sudden become this great player that he has the potential to be. The truth is that he should be coming off the bench until he learns to play with enough passion to leave it all on the floor. We're in win or go home territory. We don't need some unpassionate shoulder shrugging rooh pooh out there blowing this opportunity. The window that we have to accomplish something major is a very small one. So why can't we be critical of what he brings to the game?? Because it shows that maybe, just maybe we f----- up? We're the laughing stock of the 2004-2006 drafts anyway. The sooner we admit it & correct it, the sooner we can move on. There are sometimes in life, when you have to look at the mistake you made... Be a f00---- man and say "I'll never do that again"... Well, you deciding not to give a rats azz and just being happy to be in the playoffs is a sure sign that you just don't care at all if this team makes the same mistake. Really it says that you're not trying to be a man about this!

At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

exactly.We already saw the mistake in Shelden and got Bibby whil giving up other mistakes like AJ,and Lue.Now is time to recognize Marvin was a mistake and move on.

That is the problem you are not moving on. All you are doing now is giving excuses for why Paul and Marvin are at the playoffs at the same time. Let it go..its over.

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

lol yes we did.His numbers fell as the year went on.When u watch Marvin u don't see a 15/6/2 player.That's why I hate stats.He's a goofy dude that should be on the bench.

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Chris Paul's playoff debut: 35 points, 10 assists, 4 steals, ONE turnover. he'll finish in the top 3 in the MVP race (with a very legit argument as to why he should be the MVP).

as a Hawks fan, it KILLS me to watch him, and yet he's SO good, as a basketball fan, it's impossible not to watch and admire his play.

the post-hoc rationalizations (ATL stinking for another year allowed the Hawks to get Horford) don't really remove the bitter taste when you watch Paul...

Post-hoc rationalizations?

What hypocrisy considering the entire argument is hindsight since that if anyone knew how good Paul would have been he would have been the cosensus #1 pick.

The Hawks are the youngest team in the NBA playoffs. WHo knows it could be the youngest core in NBA playoff history.

With such a bright future, the question is WILL Atlanta ever let it go, because with such a core they most defenitely SHOULD.

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That is the problem you are not moving on. All you are doing now is giving excuses for why Paul and Marvin are at the playoffs at the same time. Let it go..its over.

No i'm not,I didn't make this thread.and my first post said i'm tired of this.My point isn't much about Paul it's about Marvin himself.We passed on two great PG's but we could have atleast got a decent SF,but we got some goof.SF is the easist position yet he makes it look like rocket science.He's the only guy on our starting 5 that can't dribble the floor with no problem and yes including Smoove.lol Salim is at the playoffs too and people wanted him traded.

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

Uhm... Hello, we were getting 18/8/3 from Al Harrington.

Tell me, where's this satisfaction coming from??

You're satisfied because that's all you have right?

I mean, we spent the highest pick in the history of the Hawks on 15/6/2?

Horford in his first year is making a much bigger impact than Marvin.

But hey... we won 38 games... Marvin didn't really get any better of the past 3 years... So we're satisfied?!?!

Hmm?

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

lol yes we did.His numbers fell as the year went on.When u watch Marvin u don't see a 15/6/2 player.That's why I hate stats.He's a goofy dude that should be on the bench.

So in other words..."Stats only work when I want them to".

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Go find some mock drafts from that time where Paul was expected to be the 2nd pick. You might find a few, but the vast majority had Bogut and Marvin as the consensus top two choices and Marvin was almost unanimously predicted to be the best player in 3-5 years. You weren't a member here at the time but I can assure you that people were all over the board about who they wanted but there was certainly not a large percentage of people calling for Paul over Marvin and not even over Deron. Deron was definitely the favorite PG of the Squawk and it was a toss up between Paul and Felton here.

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huh? if the consensus was that MW was the 2nd best choice (after Bogut), how can it be that he's "closer to being what was expected" than Paul?

It means that Paul is significantly better than what most expected of him. Marvin is not as good as was expected but surely not as far below expectations as Paul is above expectations.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter that Marvin Williams was a cosensus top 2 pick, and as a 13-win team we clearly had no player that had emerged as a star to base our draft on "need" over BPA considering with such a porous performance we could argue we "needed" everything.

It doesn't matter that Marvin Williams was the cosensus guy who had the superstar potential.

It doesn't matter because when people have an agenda, they have an agenda. And unless we win a championship, the dead horse will forever be beaten. Even if we do win one, I honestly can't say it would cease.

Some people just live to complain and relish and embellish in the past

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

Uhm... Hello, we were getting 18/8/3 from Al Harrington.

Tell me, where's this satisfaction coming from??

You're satisfied because that's all you have right?

I mean, we spent the highest pick in the history of the Hawks on 15/6/2?

Horford in his first year is making a much bigger impact than Marvin.

But hey... we won 38 games... Marvin didn't really get any better of the past 3 years... So we're satisfied?!?!

Hmm?

Al Harrington's numbers were about as meaningful as Zach Randolph. THe offense sputtered when it went through him and he showed no interest in playing defense whatsoever.

Marvin has increased his PPG per 36 minutes over his three years just one point less than Garnett and McGrady in their first 3 years.

Last year was only his 2nd year as a starter.


But facts don't matter when someone has an agenda unfortunately.


You know it would be one thing if Marvin didn't increase his PPG/RPG/overall effeciency etc.

It would be one thing if he didn't show flashes of greatness with nearly a 1/4 of his games with 19+ points.

It would understandable if his numbers were stagnant or even declined. But the kid has improved yet people are still acting as if he has peaked and is a bust of epic proportions

IN reality, he's the youngest player on the team and until he stops improving, I'd hold the declarations of bust/career underachiever

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

lol yes we did.His numbers fell as the year went on.When u watch Marvin u don't see a 15/6/2 player.That's why I hate stats.He's a goofy dude that should be on the bench.

So in other words..."Stats only work when I want them to".

lol where u get that from?U said he's good because he posted those numbers and I said he's not that type of player.Most nights the guy can barely score 10.Please. f stats.I remember seeing John Salmons averaging 17 at one point this year.I didn't post stat to say why he's bad so how how did u get the notion that they only work for me.

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Go find some mock drafts from that time where Paul was expected to be the 2nd pick. You might find a few, but the vast majority had Bogut and Marvin as the consensus top two choices and Marvin was almost unanimously predicted to be the best player in 3-5 years. You weren't a member here at the time but I can assure you that people were all over the board about who they wanted but there was certainly not a large percentage of people calling for Paul over Marvin and not even over Deron. Deron was definitely the favorite PG of the Squawk and it was a toss up between Paul and Felton here.

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huh? if the consensus was that MW was the 2nd best choice (after Bogut), how can it be that he's "closer to being what was expected" than Paul?

It means that Paul is significantly better than what most expected of him. Marvin is not as good as was expected but surely not as far below expectations as Paul is above expectations.

I think a good number of people, myself included, did want Paul.

Plus, you really need to consider the fact that the Hawks drafted TWO small forwards in the first round of the 2004 draft. If BK didn't draft two small forwards the previous year and if the Hawks didn't have such a glaring need a point guard then the choice of Marvin would have made sense.

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Go find some mock drafts from that time where Paul was expected to be the 2nd pick. You might find a few, but the vast majority had Bogut and Marvin as the consensus top two choices and Marvin was almost unanimously predicted to be the best player in 3-5 years. You weren't a member here at the time but I can assure you that people were all over the board about who they wanted but there was certainly not a large percentage of people calling for Paul over Marvin and not even over Deron. Deron was definitely the favorite PG of the Squawk and it was a toss up between Paul and Felton here.

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huh? if the consensus was that MW was the 2nd best choice (after Bogut), how can it be that he's "closer to being what was expected" than Paul?

It means that Paul is significantly better than what most expected of him. Marvin is not as good as was expected but surely not as far below expectations as Paul is above expectations.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter that Marvin Williams was a cosensus top 2 pick, and as a 13-win team we clearly had no player that had emerged as a star to base our draft on "need" over BPA considering with such a porous performance we could argue we "needed" everything.

It doesn't matter that Marvin Williams was the cosensus guy who had the superstar potential.

It doesn't matter because when people have an agenda, they have an agenda. And unless we win a championship, the dead horse will forever be beaten. Even if we do win one, I honestly can't say it would cease.

Some people just live to complain and relish and embellish in the past

Agenda... If you don't realize how stupid that pick was.. then you have an agenda. Just man up and say... we f---- up. It's the GM's responsibility to look beyond what the pundits say and determine the truth about a player. The pundits were wrong about Smith and we acknowledge BK for choosing him anyway. Well, with the pundits being wrong about Marvin, you make it sound like there should be no acknowledgment that we ------ up there... come on BB... stop acting like a woman here.

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

Uhm... Hello, we were getting 18/8/3 from Al Harrington.

Tell me, where's this satisfaction coming from??

You're satisfied because that's all you have right?

I mean, we spent the highest pick in the history of the Hawks on 15/6/2?

Horford in his first year is making a much bigger impact than Marvin.

But hey... we won 38 games... Marvin didn't really get any better of the past 3 years... So we're satisfied?!?!

Hmm?

Al Harrington's numbers were about as meaningful as Zach Randolph. THe offense sputtered when it went through him and he showed no interest in playing defense whatsoever.

Marvin has increased his PPG per 36 minutes over his three years just one point less than Garnett and McGrady in their first 3 years.

Last year was only his 2nd year as a starter.


But facts don't matter when someone has an agenda unfortunately.


You know it would be one thing if Marvin didn't increase his PPG/RPG/overall effeciency etc.

It would be one thing if he didn't show flashes of greatness with nearly a 1/4 of his games with 19+ points.

It would understandable if his numbers were stagnant or even declined. But the kid has improved yet people are still acting as if he has peaked and is a bust of epic proportions

IN reality, he's the youngest player on the team and until he stops improving, I'd hold the declarations of bust/career underachiever

lol see Duff Man this is the guy that u should be saying that to.

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Agenda... If you don't realize how stupid that trade is... then you have an agenda. Just man up and say... we f---- up. It's the GM's responsibility to look beyond what the pundits say and determine the truth about a player. The pundits was wrong about Smith and we acknowledge BK for choosing him anyway. Well, with the pundits being wrong about Marvin, you make it sound like there should be no acknowledgement that we ------ up there... come on BB... stop acting like a woman here.

Stop having selective amnesia.

It wasn't just media pundits, just about every scout said that Marvin Williams had the most star potential.

Clearly neither Josh Smith or Childress had emerged at that point to justify passing on a player that had the most star potential because he played the same position.


And even if that wasn't the case, the fact that people are stuck in the past is the REAL loser mentality.

LOSERS wallow in their own self-pity and have the woe is me attitude.

People with character LEARN from failures, they don't drown in them, they try to overcome them.

ANd despite that draft day blunder/hindsight, we have recovered.


How? Well with recent fortune in the lottery, we have now constructed arguably the 2nd most talented young team in the league behind the Blazers.

We are the youngest team in the post-season and unquestionably one of the youngest teams in NBA history (if not the youngest)


Will either one of our core players be as good as Chris Paul? Maybe not. But they don't have to be for us to win an NBA-title. With guys like Joe Johnon, Josh Smith, and Al HOrford who can all rank in the top 10 in the league at their respective positions, with contributions from Marvin and Acie Law down the road, this is a championship caliber core.

none of that has anything to do with Marvin sucking now.Marvin could have very well been a good player with those guys but he decided to be a goofy dude with no real game to go to.

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Marvin has increased his PPG per 36 minutes over his three years just one point less than Garnett and McGrady in their first 3 years.

lol, Garnett and McGrady.

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It would be one thing if he didn't show flashes of greatness with nearly a 1/4 of his games

He doesn't.

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It would be one thing if he didn't show flashes of greatness with nearly a 1/4 of his games

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none of that has anything to do with Marvin sucking now.Marvin could have very well been a good player with those guys but he decided to be a goofy dude with no real game to go to.

So Marvin sucks and his game has peaked?

Ok. That's always good to know

Holy sh!t we selected Marvin over Paul? That's not good.
Nice Post btw, i think that's the first one on this topic.

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none of that has anything to do with Marvin sucking now.Marvin could have very well been a good player with those guys but he decided to be a goofy dude with no real game to go to.

So Marvin sucks and his game has peaked?

Ok. That's always good to know

no he has not peaked and will get better but he'll never be a superstar,he doesn't have the tools.He's not even a natural,fluid basketball player let alone a good one.

Unless Marvin becomes an All-star, I dont think the Hawks should live it down. Passing on a future all-nba for a decent small forward on a team with three decent small forwards is folly. How many other small forwards in the nba do you think could average 15 points a game playing Marvin's minutes, and getting as many wide-open looks as he does? Plenty. How many pg's can do what Paul does? None.

We would be a 50-win team with Paul, JJ, and Smith. We wouldnt have reached on Shelden, either.

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Unless Marvin becomes an All-star, I dont think the Hawks should live it down. Passing on a future all-nba for a decent small forward on a team with three decent small forwards is folly. How many other small forwards in the nba do you think could average 15 points a game playing Marvin's minutes, and getting as many wide-open looks as he does? Plenty. How many pg's can do what Paul does? None.

We would be a 50-win team with Paul, JJ, and Smith. We wouldnt have reached on Shelden, either.

Marvin will never be an all-star.He's not even a good basketball player.U don't develop being a good basketball player.He just doesn't have IT.

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Ok. That's always good to know

no he has not peaked and will get better but he'll never be a superstar,he doesn't have the tools.He's not even a natural,fluid basketball player let alone a good one.

Ok so why do you detract from the point I made that if Horford, Smoove, and JJ are all top 10 at their respective positions (which is not even close to unrealstic given their age and talet), that we don't NEED Marvin to be a superstar or even an all-star for us to be a Championship contender?


IGnoring that and wallowing in the past is a loser mentality

Marvin isn't even a decent starter.If you aren't a big part of the team u can atleast be able to shoot 3's or finish at the rim.He can barely dribble.

Aw God... another one of these threads, again?

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Who cares about what could of been. There is nothing we can do to change that now.

Wrong. We still employ the GM who drafted him and 2 other consecutive 3rd worst of 3 potential prospects in each draft. WE can fire the bum.

W

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Who cares about what could of been. There is nothing we can do to change that now.

Wrong. We still employ the GM who drafted him and 2 other consecutive 3rd worst of 3 potential prospects in each draft. WE can fire the bum.

W

Good point.

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Aw God... another one of these threads, again?

Back for your viewing pleasure....

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Who cares about what could of been. There is nothing we can do to change that now.

Wrong. We still employ the GM who drafted him and 2 other consecutive 3rd worst of 3 potential prospects in each draft. WE can fire the bum.

W

Good point.

Now that I'll cosign on.

Yep, it's revisionist history once again to bring up MW over CP3. Just like it was revisionist's history when Nique was traded for a guy who wanted nothing to do with the team, Koncak was drafted ahead of (insert Hall of Famer here), Bob Weiss, Lon Kruger, and Alan Henderson/Chris Crawford's contract extensions.

When you haven't had a winning record since dial-up internet was hot, folks look back on the reasons WHY. Spending a 2nd overall pick on a SF with numbers any guy worth his salt could get with his minutes and open looks (after spending THREE picks the previous year on swingmen and still having Diaw and Harrington on the roster no less) over a PG when the likes of Tyronn Lue and Royal Ivey are left running the show is asinine to the 5th degree. It gets even worse to take when the guy BK passed over all but single-handedly saved pro basketball in NO, is an MVP candidate, and made Jason Kidd look like an old man in his playoff debut. If this was any other team in the league, we'd be laughing our ASSES off at them and their fans for the next 12 years.

If that one pick was done again, we wouldn't have had to see....

Shelden Williams taken at 5 (he would've fell to BK at 16)
Craig Claxton being paid $25 million to show off his Armani suit collection on the bench
MW get stuffed in the lane or get called for (insert infraction here) while driving to the rim
Royal Ivey starting
Tyronn Lue starting
Anthony Johnson starting
$14+ million of cap room being eaten up because we had to go out and get Mike Bibby while the Joshes reach free agency

and most importantly,

26-56, 30-52, and 37-45.

Until MW grows up (oh BTW, he's only a year younger than Paul so let's stop with the 'he's still young' story) and start playing up to his 'potential', or the Hawks win a title, folks will never, EVER forget about MW over CP3/Deron/Felton.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

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Who cares about what could of been. There is nothing we can do to change that now.

Wrong. We still employ the GM who drafted him and 2 other consecutive 3rd worst of 3 potential prospects in each draft. WE can fire the bum.

W

Good point.

Now that I'll cosign on.

Yep, it's revisionist history once again to bring up MW over CP3. Just like it was revisionist's history when Nique was traded for a guy who wanted nothing to do with the team, Koncak was drafted ahead of (insert Hall of Famer here), Bob Weiss, Lon Kruger, and Alan Henderson/Chris Crawford's contract extensions.

When you haven't had a winning record since dial-up internet was hot, folks look back on the reasons WHY. Spending a 2nd overall pick on a SF with numbers any guy worth his salt could get with his minutes and open looks (after spending THREE picks the previous year on swingmen and still having Diaw and Harrington on the roster no less) over a PG when the likes of Tyronn Lue and Royal Ivey are left running the show is asinine to the 5th degree. It gets even worse to take when the guy BK passed over all but single-handedly saved pro basketball in NO, is an MVP candidate, and made Jason Kidd look like an old man in his playoff debut. If this was any other team in the league, we'd be laughing our ASSES off at them and their fans for the next 12 years.

If that one pick was done again, we wouldn't have had to see....

Shelden Williams taken at 5 (he would've fell to BK at 16)
Craig Claxton being paid $25 million to show off his Armani suit collection on the bench
MW get stuffed in the lane or get called for (insert infraction here) while driving to the rim
Royal Ivey starting
Tyronn Lue starting
Anthony Johnson starting
$14+ million of cap room being eaten up because we had to go out and get Mike Bibby while the Joshes reach free agency

and most importantly,

26-56, 30-52, and 37-45.

Until MW grows up (oh BTW, he's only a year younger than Paul so let's stop with the 'he's still young' story) and start playing up to his 'potential', or the Hawks win a title, folks will never, EVER forget about MW over CP3/Deron/Felton.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

Realistically, the reason why this issue remains a subject of converstion so frequently is because Billy Knight is still the GM of this team. Once he gets fired I think it will give alot of people some closure (I know it will help me move).

Marvin IS a bust.

Superstar potential???? The dude wasn't even a starter on his college team was he? How is that a sign of superstar potential?

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Realistically, the reason why this issue remains a subject of converstion so frequently is because Billy Knight is still the GM of this team. Once he gets fired I think it will give alot of people some closure (I know it will help me move).

Exactly. My biggest fear is that we've already compounded BK's MANY horrendous drafting mistakes by retaining BK and allowing him to judge what to do about those mistakes. ANY person would be reluctant to admit their own mistakes (you must do so in order to best rectify them), but BK might be the single most egotistical GM out there and many times less likely to admit much less correct his mistakes.

Keeping BK is NOT an option. Simply NOT an option. Not unless we want more of the same and less of something better.

W