EazyRoc

Quote: Amongst the movers, Denver, the Clips and Golden State may most be in the "break them up" mode. I would tender Bibby and Marvin to AI and Anthony Carter. Denver will save 3-4 mil. and have a 13 mil. expiring. The Hawks can move JJ to the 3, have AI at the 2 and Carter for needful minutes at the Point. If Sterling scraps the Clips, we can look at Maggette, Kamen or possible Brand. Maggette and Brand can walk if they want which makes it easier to menuever a deal. Again Marvin and Bibby are the bait. The entire Warriors lineup (save Ellis) will be available. I like Baron and Azubuike. And Barnes and Biedrins. My choice of these will be AI and Carter. I would move the 2010 first round pick to Memphis for Javaris and have that Big point matched with AI's 2G backcourt. I can't see the Clips being in rebuild mode, considering they have one of the better frontcourts in the league if Brand stays. Kaman, Brand, and Thornton is very potent. They are a few moves away from contending in the west, if you ask me. I would love to have AI here, but like you said we would need a big PG. We could also put him at PG. I don't know how it would work, but I'm thinking because Joe is also a playmaker then it will work better than it did when they tried it in Denver.

Quote: Quote: I cant stand Dunleavy. Im not saying he dioesnt have game but I just cant stand him. It would be hard to root for him like it was hard to root for Laetner when he was a Hawk. I also dislike Dunleavy and am skeptical of someone who just had a career season. I would much rather watch Marvin develop than reinvest in Dunleavy. Forget Dunleavy! That trade would bring us BD, which makes me like it. Yall are focused on the wrong thing.

Quote: Quote: Carter and JO are not stars anymore. They fill stat sheets. They do not help teams win ball games. lol what did KG and Ray Allen and Paul Pirece do before this year?they damn sure weren't helping win anything.The kind of guys you're looking for aren't available Only way we're going to get a star is if we do a Sign and Trade. I wouldn't mind taking Carter, even though we really don't need him.

Quote: Quote: It's Kobe Bryant without a doubt in my mind. There is nothing he isn't capable of doing. You've got it right, hands down. He's the best player in the league, best athlete, period. I can't believe some of the names i'm seeing on this list, much less some people trying to justify some of those names over Kobe..... insanity. Anything Kobe can do, LeBron can do it too, and probably better. The reason Jason Maxiell is on this list because he's 6'5" and plays PF/C extremely well. He is a very big, compact dude at 260 lbs and can do things a lot of taller players can't. He is an outstanding shotblocker (he was killing KG in the playoff game I saw) and he is easily one of the top 3 most explosive players in the league. Have you seen how fast he gets off the court ?

Quote: Quote: You actually think lebron is quicker and has better hops than Kobe?? Yes, not to mention being much stronger. Eh ? We're talking about Kobe Bryant. Not Kobe Schwarzenegger. LeBron is a world class athlete who is bigger and stronger than Kobe Bryant. They are just as fast and quick as one another, but the only difference is LeBron got about 20 lbs on Kobe. Kobe is a great athlete, but he's not top-knotch anymore.

Woody is a good man, and it would be a great opportunity for him in Detroit. Unfortunately, our team just doesn't respond to him like I believe a veteran team would. He should take the offer in Detroit and never look back, and we should move forward with a coach that can get the most out of our roster.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Amare Stoudemire always struck me as being extremely athletic, especially the pre-injury version of Amare. He's probably not on an athletic par with those top guys, but IMO he's right up there- or at least he used to be. I feel bad for leaving Amare out. He's hands down one of the best dunkers (in-game) in the league. I've seen him dunk the ball in ways 95% of the league can't. He's very quick for a big man, too. Amare is the only player I've seen so far that actually dunked over Josh Smith when Josh actually tries to block the shot head on (most other dunk on Josh was when Josh come over at a slight angle). I've seen KG and I also think I've seen Bosh dunk on Josh Smith straight on.

Quote: Amare Stoudemire always struck me as being extremely athletic, especially the pre-injury version of Amare. He's probably not on an athletic par with those top guys, but IMO he's right up there- or at least he used to be. I feel bad for leaving Amare out. He's hands down one of the best dunkers (in-game) in the league. I've seen him dunk the ball in ways 95% of the league can't. He's very quick for a big man, too.

Quote: Quote: OK, then, Kobe, hands down. He could play any sport at any level. Kobe could not play major league baseball and would have a very hard time playing in the NFL because of his height. As for the NBA's best athlete I have a hard time picking between Josh, Dwight and LeBron because they are on a level that no one in the NBA can match. Kobe might not be able to play baseball, but he'd be a helluva wide receiver in football.

Quote: Just the fact that we are talking 'bout Smoove in this thread is proof he needs keeping I think its pretty much a toss-up across the board and "athletically" has a broad meaning. Hops, its Smoove, strength goes to Howard, and speed and etc. goes to Kobe and LBJ. Refine the poll, dude. No need to refine the poll, because I want to know who is the best at all of the above. Not whose better for each individual category. "Whose the NBA's best athlete ?" What needs to be refined about that ?

Quote: Are you talking about just hops? What are you using to judge it? I think Kobe would be a great RB, WR, DB in football, he could be a track star, I bet he would be a hell of a baseball player too. He is the closest thing in the NBA to Michael Jordan and Jordan was the best athlete in the NBA IMO. Mainly Hops, but you can factor in speed and quickness too.

Quote: but are you factoring in basketball skills? I'm talking strictly as an athlete. Athletically speaking, I'd say Kobe is easily a step below Dwight/Smith/Lebron. Yeah, Kobe is a top-notch athlete, but he isn't (at this point in his career) where Lebron and others are right now. I'm actually surprised no one has voted for LeBron.

Quote: Think about what transpired each time Smith had an altercation with Woody. Why did it happen? I actually don't know, and am curious about that myself.

Quote: I also wonder why those coaches are unemployed, if they are so great. I think someone will definitely go after Saunders, but it will probably have to be a veteran team with strong leadership that doesn't have a disruptive guy like Rasheed on it. It may not even be this year but someone will definitely hire him again. Well, in Dallas' sake, it's obvious that they're about change for the sake of change. That and the fact that Mark Cuban is a little bit too hands-on with basketball operations. Apparently, Avery wasn't happy when Mark Cuban traded away the Mavericks' future for Jason Kidd. Can you blame him when he put so much work in with Devin Harris ? Flip doesn't have a job, because the Pistons are going in a different direction with their team. He couldn't take them to the level Dumars expected him to be able to. However, not a lot of coaches will be. If your star players don't seem like they want to win it all, then it's probably not going to happen for you. Quote: Coaching wise I think he is probably a better coach than Woody, but if he lost his team in Dallas I would be worried that the same might happen here and that's a huge risk. For all of Woody's faults (real or imagined) the one thing he has done is keep the respect of his players. I don't see how you arrived at that assumption. It's true that Joe (one of our stars) respects Mike Woodson, but it's also true that Josh Smith (another one of our stars) has had his issues with him. The thing I respect about Woody is that he doesn't make excuses. He owns up for a lot of his mistakes, and doesn't throw his players under the bus.

Quote: Yep, too much hating going on. So much hating that it makes me look like I do nothing but praise Woody when I probably scream at the tv as much as anyone else when he makes mistakes but I have to defend him against some of these absurd comments from these child posters. It's easy to ignore how much better our offense looked with Bibby, but then the Woody haters will do nothing but give the credit to Bibby and claim that he was running his own plays out there. Woody never gets credit for anything good that the team does, he only gets the blame for the bad. I also wonder why those coaches are unemployed, if they are so great. I think someone will definitely go after Saunders, but it will probably have to be a veteran team with strong leadership that doesn't have a disruptive guy like Rasheed on it. It may not even be this year but someone will definitely hire him again. Regarding Avery, I'm not totally against him and I think he got a raw deal in Dallas, but it does concern me that he might be a Skiles type of coach that wears his players down to the point where they stop responding to him. I guess that's what you get when you have a bunch of million dollar athletes who don't have to worry about getting fired, they can just ignore the coach until he is fired. Coaching wise I think he is probably a better coach than Woody, but if he lost his team in Dallas I would be worried that the same might happen here and that's a huge risk. For all of Woody's faults (real or imagined) the one thing he has done is keep the respect of his players. If Flip Saunders or Avery Johnson weren't available, I'd want to keep Mike Woodson here for another year. I think they are better coaches, but I don't think Woody is terrible. Our team, when focused, can play absolutely stifling defense which is why we were able to come from behind in our playoff wins and a lot in the regular season. It's just so often that we wait until we're down in double digits to really play great defense. I think Woodson can be considered slightly below average with a young team (I gave him a D+ in the GPA thread), but I think he'd perform better with a veteran team that knows what to do out on the court.

Alright, just trying to get an idea of what you guys think. Please refrain from being a homer, and be as unbiased as possible. I've seen all of those players do some very unbelievable things on the court. I personally picked Jason Maxiell, because I've seen him do some ridiculous put-backs and freakish blocks. In my mind, it's almost like a three way tie after him.

Quote: Bibs to LAC. Thomas to Detroit. Magette, Knight, and McDyess to Atlanta. Man, we are really robbing LA and Detroit blind in this trade. I'd do it without thinking twice.

Quote: Of course. Give Lister the credit for Horford's offensive development. Because we all remember how much of an offensive BEAST Lister was on offense. He used to dominate centers offensively with is great 15 foot jumper and his plethora of bck to the basket post moves. Olajuwon and Moses Malone couldn't dream of stopping Lister. Horford improved offensively, especially after Bibby got here, because a guy like Bibby could get him 1 or 2 more easy baskets a game. He started taking and making the 12 to 15 foot jumper a little mote. He even started to take his man off the dribble when he got the ball around the FT line. Heaven forbid that our coaches try to teach our kids anything. They're part of Woody's staff, but Woody had no role whatsoever in their development . . lol. What are you talking about ..? Lister is one of our coaches, more specifically our big men coach. Therefore, I'm giving credit to Woodson's staff for Horford's improvement. Quote: It was Woody and the coaches who not only moved him to the 4, so that he'd be more potent on offense, it was they who told him to attack more. He didn't see the light until he sat out and saw how the team needed someone to attack the rim. He STILL tries to play like a guard at times, and it hurts the team. But when he listens to the coaches and attacks, good things usually happen. Outside of changing his position, Josh Smith had came to realize himself that he can be more effective attacking the rim. Whether or not the coaching staff was preaching it is irrelevant considering that Josh Smith didn't start attacking the rim until he himself decided that he's better when doing so. The fact that doesn't do it consistently is a negative on Smith, but it also looks bad because it seems like the staff isn't able to reign him in completely. Also, I never had a "Woody doesn't know what the hell he is doing" theory, don't put words in my mouth. I think Woodson's hands-on development of his players is very limited. Maybe because he's busy trying to manage the game or for whatever reason. Woodson doesn't do a whole lot of sideline coaching, no matter how many pictures you pull up. Can you honestly look at all the athletes we drafted and say that in 3/4 years, Woodson has turned them into skillful basketball players ? I'm base my assumptions on results and evidence, and evidence shows that most of our players aren't making big strides playing under Mike Woodson.

Quote: Just what I thought. Flip can't properly motivate a team. He seems really lacking in that area to me and I noticed as his stint as a Pistons head coach. I don't think it's as simple as that. Quote: When you have a veteran roster than already has a championship, you can't blame the coach for lack of motivation. Almost everyone on that team knew what it takes to win big, but they just didn't do what needed to be done. It's hard to motivate people who have already got the hardware to win more.

Quote: Yeah the same thing was said when Lenny was the coach, that we needed a new coach and that we were underachieving and we would be better and blah blah blah. We only got worse after he was fired and if history has taught us anything it's that it tends to repeat itself. The grass is not always greener on the other side ya know. Woody ain't Lenny, and probably never will be.

Quote: I'm not saying that no coach who hasn't won a title isn't better than Woody. What I have repeatedly said is that I wouldn't disrupt our chemistry to hire a non-championship winning coach, just to make a change. I don't want to get rid of Woody just for the sake of change. His offensive "scheme" is non-existent. In the 4 years that Mike Woodson has been here, our team really has no identity . I mean what are we ? a defensive team or an offensive team ? Are we a fast break team or a half court team ? Mike Woodson does not do a lot to help improve the skills of his young players. Everybody and their mama knows that Josh Smith puts in a lot of work in the off-season to improve his game. Marvin has made some improvements, but nothing particularly noteworthy. The evidence of significant improvement is just not there. However! Avery Johnson has developed some solid players in his time as Dallas' coach. Look at players like Devin Harris, Josh Howard, Brandon Bass, and even Diop. Diop was just a big body in Cleveland, but he was considered by a lot of players to be an important piece of Dallas' defense before he was traded away. He had gone from a big body to a very good post defender under Avery. Josh Howard was one of the best perimiter defenders in the league under Avery Johnson (until this year). Devin Harris is a young star in the making and so much so that NJ is rumored to be shopping Marcus Williams. Brandon Bass' playoff performance speaks for itself. He's a combo forward with a lot of skill and athleticism. Flip Saunders has really developed some solid players, too. Flip put some faith in Stuckey and Stuckey's game has improved because of it. He can really get to the basket and finish, instead of playing timid (sounds like Acie) and afraid to take shots. Jason Maxiell is a force, and has combined his freakish athleticism with defense skill. Tayshaun Prince's offensive game has also improved these past few years. I fail to mention that Flip is also considered a good offensive coach, who I think could maximize our offense by putting our players in better positions to score.

Quote: So Smith got better as the year went on? As if maybe he was being coached during the year and got better because of it? For the record, when he came into the league he was horrible with anything that didn't involve pure athleticism. He is FAR better now, but still has a ways to go. Horford got significantly better on offense towards the end of the year. At the beginning of the year he was trying to back everyone down and towards the end he had developed a nice spin move, was using a pump fake, his jumper was much better, and he became a reliable post scoring option. He certainly didn't come into the year like that. Smith's development came from his own passion and hardwork. He seeked out Hall of Fame players to help improve his own game. Even so, his actual skills really aren't that polished, but he's able to "out-quick" PFs due to his freakish athleticism. He still has a long way to go.. Horford did get better at the end of the year, but I think that has more to do with Alton Lister. Even then, he wasn't a reliable post scoring option, but he did perform better in the post. I don't know if Woody personally had anything to do with any of his player's development. That's why our assistants are so good. Even JJ praised our assistants when making the case for keeping Woody.

Quote: Dumars is the one that put that out there, I don't have enough knowledge of the situation in Detroit to make that statement. I'm just basing that off of his press conference. I heard Dumars say he fired him because of the lack of effort displayed by his veteran players. I haven't heard anything about a lack of respect. Do you have a link to the press conference ?

Quote: Those coaches were fired because their players lost respect for them. That has not happened in Atlanta other than a few minor arguments with Smoove and AJ. At this point we don't know that Woody will be retained, Sund hasn't made that decision that we are aware of so who knows maybe he was waiting to see what coaches would become available. The players in Detroit didn't lose respect for Flip Saunders. They just didnt have the gas in their tanks to play championship level basketball. You don't make it to the conference finals playing for someone you don't respect. It doesn't happen. The reason Dallas didn't make it was because the GM completely destroyed the team for a PG they really didn't need. He was making the flashy trade to keep up with the Lakers and the Suns. Even then, Dallas didn't have much of a team to begin with. Dirk is a solid player and bonafide All-Star, but his defense is lackluster and he's playing on a team where post defense is a weakness. Josh Howard's defense has went down ever since he's became the legitimate second option on that team. Dallas' problem is that they didnt have a good enough defense despite being a better defensive team under Avery, or a gimmicky offensive scheme that would make up for their lack of great defense.

Quote: So what do you do when the players aren't executing on a consistent basis? Do you bench them and risk losing games that you can't afford to lose? Or do you get in their ear every time they come off the floor, like Woody already does? I think if we had a solid bench you would see him disciplining players a lot more often. He's had a chance to bench players in previous years, when he could afford to lose. Woody doesn't always get in player's ears when they play wildly. I've watched J.Smith do boneheaded things and instead of saying anything, Woody ignores J.Smith as he walks to the bench. J.Smith isn't a rookie, so he's had his chance to really bench him for making mistakes. In fact, I've seen him stand with his arms crossed and a dumb look on his face more than I seen him coaching/guiding his players.