RedDawg#8

Without any further moves, I think we can agree that a top end rotation of Trae, Murray, Dre, JC, CC, Bogi, and OO is a very good first 7. You are now just hoping that out of the 2 Holidays, JJ, Harkless, Griffin and Kaminsky that 2 or 3 shake out to have really good seasons in reserve roles for us. My hope is that Griffin and JJ breakout and J Holiday gives us some version of Wright/Snell veteran magic. A solid 10-man is best case, but Nate truly only needs a 9-man rotation to carry us through the regular season and an 8-man unit for the playoffs. I think we are sitting in a good spot to hit all of those marks. J Holiday has the edge without anyone suiting yet for 8th man. After that, it’s wide open. This squad is “D”efinitely going to be tougher to score on next year.

I agree that he is a fit next to OO who can now be the center on offense and Kamisky the stretch 4, and vice versa when it comes to defense. My only reservation is that means he is outplaying JJ for rotation minutes which I hope doesn’t happen. I really want Frank to be the 5th/6th big man at best, behind JJ and/or Harkless

Kuminga and Moody both played more games and minutes for the world champs than Jalen did for a play-in team. Jordan Poole (2019 pick 28) already became one of their best players going in to last season while we gave up on his classmate Cam and are holding our breath on Dre. We gave them minutes but results are mixed on if they actually were developed properly. Meanwhile Poole very well may have outplayed both Klay and Wiggins this past season. As far as the Grizzlies, kudos to them. Nobody forces us to draft “projects” in favor of ready made players. We picked who we picked knowing we were trying to win. Projects made sense 3-4 years ago. We can draft win now players if we truly want to. That’s not a good excuse. Especially knowing we had 2 PF’s with contracts we were willing to move. Developing Jalen should have been a bigger priority.

We don’t have any real offensive bigs outside of JC, so I like the addition of Frank. He gives us real size as a true 7ft, if not the actual defensive presence to go along with it. He will help us in a reserve role to fill whichever need occurs at either PF or C. Bench unit compared to last year: Dieng - Frank Gallo - Harkless Knox - JJ TLC - AJ Wright - J Holiday Lou - A Holiday Mays - Martin Bogi - Bogi OO - OO

Warriors, Celtics, Sixers, Heat, Grizzlies all had success despite giving big minutes to 1st and 2nd year players. Trust must go hand in hand with Development. No player that you draft should have the same question marks that keep them off the court going in to years 2 or 3 of their rookie contract. That means coaching and development haven’t done their job of getting them ready to compete. Draft assets are too valuable, as we have seen come draft night, for them not to touch the floor and have some kind of an impact. That’s a waste of an asset that could have been better spent elsewhere. Organizations must be committed to developing these young guys.

It’s time to unleash the “O” The kid has quite a knack guarding the toughest bigs in the game.

I don't doubt his offensive skillset. I think that his defensive awareness is the only thing that kept him from getting more minutes as a rookie. He should look better next season for sure.

Listen, if Beal wants to get paid and hold his team hostage, more power to him. Takes one iron out of the fire in our division. Now we can place our focus on the Heat and Hornets for the next few seasons until the Magic finally grow up

Lofton Jr is the classic case of a guy being underrated because of his body. He can flat out play basketball. Glad he is succeeding so far. Memphis has yet another grit and grind type on their hands. Dude is aggressive and confident.

Randle is a poor 3 point shooter, our team needs more spacing, not less. Randle is a ball stopper, we are already trying to coach that out of Dre, no need to add more of it to the lineup. Otherwise, sure why not (as in realistically, no)

Another rumor that never came from JC's mouth at any point. Every player wants max money, why not get paid the most possible amount. But JC never made any contract demands. It's called negotiation. You clearly take every rumor you hear and just run with it, while also holding it against people. That's why the insider stuff is dangerous when people can't take information with a grain of salt before turning on someone. Negotiations are never simple and easy. No 2 sides just agree on the first number and that's it. He was offered a number that he felt was low, he bet on himself, and he got more money in the end. And you feel like a big man by snarking that he didn't get a Max. He still won by waiting it out and getting more money. You seem more salty about it than he was lol

If it ain't broke don't fix it. I personally was defending JC against those who were justifying their desire to trade him by saying he didn't fit with Clint, as if that was his fault. Everything should be about a fit with Trae, and Trae has always thrived in the PNR. He also has always had a big man that could shoot 3's. JC checks those boxes. I do think that in the absence of Gallo, the Atlanta Hawks need a post scoring presence if we want to be successful in the playoffs. And unless we add someone else from the outside we have to consider internally looking at JC or Dre to fill that void. I have less faith in JC than I do in Dre to do this, but that would be the only reason I would consider increasing his role. Not to make his stats look better, but to fill a need in our lineup as currently constructed. JC does not need to be a focal point for us. Trae, Murray, Dre, then JC. That should be the order of who gets looks. Bogi can be option A off the bench. OO and CC will eat by finishing plays for us at the rim.

Agreed. If there was an obvious deal out there I would feel differently. But Brooklyn wants to keep Simmons, Suns want Clint for Ayton, and KD, yeah. We shall see. Other than the fact that I don’t like Simmons, if John is moved for any of those guys I would understand it. That makes sense. Just like using Gallo’s contract in a deal this summer always made sense. The day JC resigned, his contract became a chess piece for us to use to make a bigger move or just hold on to him. That has always been the case. That bigger deal is not currently available, especially until the KD smoke dies down, so we will stand pat. Which is smart. I don’t see what the fixation is that we “have” to trade him just because one insider has been pushing him out the door since 2019. I am for improving the roster. If we can bring back a guy that makes us better I am all for it. People are just trigger happy right now itching to make moves for the sake of saying they did something.

The Hawks are trying to improve the roster. There is no more prerogative to trade JC than there is Bogi or Clint at this point. You believe what you hear, but you missed the part about there only being 3 untouchables in Trae, Dre and OO. Everyone else was available for the right price to IMPROVE to roster. There was much more smoke early on before the draft, I agree. But things have died down. Unless we really do bring in another big time player, JC is not being traded. Not for peanuts, not for a cap room and expirings like we did with Kev. Show me a direct quote from JC or his camp about what he wants to do. Doesn’t exist. It’s all the same rumor being recycled over and over. And again, that smoke was at its height before the draft. Things have changed dramatically since the Murray trade and you haven’t heard a peep or rumor about him since. Listen for yourself to Steve Koonin on what he thinks about the rumors https://21143.mc.tritondigital.com/OMNY_DUKESBELL_P/media-session/cbccfd3e-7c5f-4b06-9860-a5af53eee5e3/d/clips/4b5f9d6d-9214-48cb-8455-a73200038129/fc77f556-6ede-421a-9cf7-a78e00163f9a/667d7f86-696c-4c4a-b17e-aec5015e4106/audio/direct/t1656710152/Atlanta_Hawks_CEO_Steve_Koonin_with_Dukes_Bell!.mp3?t=1656710152

No matter how anyone “feels” about the fit between JC and Clint, we finished #2 in offensive rating last season and #8 the season before that. This team has no issues scoring points with both of them. They fit together just fine. And that’s mainly because one of them learned how to step out and hit a jumpshot early in his career. One sacrifices for the other, but they both still eat. We should be happy. But, it’s the off season. So let’s continue to make problems where they don’t exist.

Ummm, yes I do blame an Old school style Center whose game has not adapted to the modern NBA where 5’s can step out and hit a 15 foot jumper or more. You cannot credit Clint for being “traditional” while tearing down JC whose inside-out skillset would translate across any generation. JC has ADAPTED to the modern NBA, going from a guy who didn’t shoot any jumpers his whole career to a guy who shoots above average from 3pt range. Yes, JC absolutely deserves credit for that. I do, in fact, blame a player who cannot do anything outside of 5ft from the rim and cannot hit his FT’s, and has zero post game to his name. Clint is literally just a lob threat and a some-timey baby-hook shooter. He has nothing else besides his defense. He even shies away from contact due to fear of going to the line. JC deserves the utmost credit for finding more and more ways to contribute to the game despite the severe limitations of his frontcourt partner.

Thank Clint Capela for this. JC gets bashed on too much for a guy who has consistently figured out a way to be valuable despite all the shortcomings of his teammates.

I think we are saying the same thing, which is there is no real benefit for him to play in SL other than our own personal entertainment. Even if healthy, there is nothing more he can prove by balling out again if, to your point, it's not against NBA players.

He balled out last Summer, didn't make much difference to Nate. Why waste his legs again (I know he is injured, but even if he wasn't)

Agree Elite teams have found ways to get their young guys on the court. Doesn't mean they have a huge role on day 1. But they get more run than garbage minutes when the bench gets cleared. Nobody looks good next to other scrubs. It's too much chaos and disorganization. But you put AJ in for 6 minutes a half with some of the main rotation vets and he cannot have that big of a impact of whether we win or lose. I think more than anything, you have to let guys prove themselves on the court. You cannot determine if they are ready based just on the practice scrimmages that no starter participates in during the season. And don't get me started on the G-League. JJ balled out in the G-League last season, tell me if that makes any difference in how comfortable we feel about him being the primary backup at PF? It might as well count for nothing at this point.

It was reported that one of them would be on the court at all times. I don't like this because it pulls them apart for longer stretches. But that seems to be the scenario that we want to roll with. An elite playmaking PG on the court for 48 mins.

I seriously doubt we retain him after this season, regardless of how well he plays.

So is no one sad about Mays possibly not returning? Kid is a solid basketball player. I am assuming Coop returns, then possible Martin signs on a Two-way deal. Again, all we are missing on the depth chart is a 3rd center. And if we are greedy, then another scoring threat off the bench.

J Holiday’s contract is expiring. I doubt we have long term plans, or any plans beyond this season for him. He is a stop gap like Snell, TLC, and **sigh** Wright, just to fill out the roster. I wouldn’t worry about his age or ability too much. That won’t be our problem after this season. The issue is Nate, he has to realize the value in getting Griffin minutes so that he’s ready to crack the rotation in 23-24.

You can’t steal someone that’s under contract for multiple years. Heck, I don’t even think you can even contact a player that’s under contract. The only thing that can happen is for JC to publicly demand a trade to force the Hawks hands. And even in that scenario the Hawks hold the power just like the Nets technically do with KD. But JC isn’t that type if player, and whether he is happy or not, he will either say nothing or say how much he loves the organization and wants to be here. The Hawks want to improve. If they were willing to lose JC for nothing we would have traded him already for those crap deals. We want to add another big piece and that’s the only reason JC is available. As long as they were clear about that with him and his agent I don’t think there will be any animosity.