REHawksFan

45 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The hate for the next great Atlanta Hawk. 

Honest question tho....is their ANY indication that Edey is even a consideration for the Hawks?  

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Why the Warriors, Bulls, Hawks and Kings face tough choices after Play-In Tournament exits - The Athletic

Some snippets:

• John says the Hawks could return all 12 players with contracts for next season, sign Vit to a NBA deal, and fill out the rest of the team with the likely 10th pick and stay a hair under the luxury tax.
• He also says that league handicappers, whatever that means, believe that Young is more likely to be moved than Murray.
• He says that trading young for multiple smaller deals allows them to push themselves back from the tax line and also sets them up to give Jalen Johnson a big extension.
• John Collins trade exception expires June 26th, but he says Atlanta could use this exception to generate one of similar size in a Young deal.

I think he significantly undersells the continued improvement of Jalen and Onyeka.  

I'm thinking the "league handicappers" he references are basing their opinions on the fact that they believe the Hawks will stay under the tax line at all costs and they figure the best way forward is to trade away the biggest contract?  It doesn't say that they believe the Hawks would rather trade Trae than Murray.  Just that he's more likely to be moved.  And it goes on to talk almost exclusively about the differences in contract and what they could get with $40M. 

IOW, it reads like a "Hawks are cheap so the logical move is to trade away the high priced player." 

9 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

POA defense is always a problem, but the biggest problem this year was the C position, imo. 

I'm just not bringing back Clint or Hinter to start. I'm fine with both off the bench, but starting is a no go.

How many teams in the playoffs would either start for?  Not many I'd imagine. 

To answer my own rhetorical question...

SFs Starting Game 1 of 2024 Playoffs:

• Jason Tatum
• Caleb Martin
• Kelly Oubre
• OG Anunoby
• Aaron Nesmith
• Kris Middleton
• Franz Wagner
• Maxi Strus
• Brandon Ingram
• Lou Dort
• LeBron
• Michael Porter
• Brad Beal
• Jaden McDaniels / Kyle Anderson
• Derrick Jones
• Paul George

How many of these guys would Hunter start over?  4? 5?  It's not a lot. 

And Centers:

• Portzingus
• Bam Adebayo
• Embiid
• I. Hartenstein
• Miles Turner
• B. Lopez
• Paulo Banchero
• Jarod Allen
• Jones V.
• Chet
• AD
• Joker
• NUrkic
• Gobert
• Gafford
• Zubac

How many would Clint start over?  I can make an argument that Clint would only start over Gafford.  Maybe?  The point is, if we want to improve the Hawks, we HAVE to upgrade the roster.  Hunter and Clint are fine off the bench, but they are no longer starters, imo.  

9 hours ago, marco102 said:

I mean, I brought in Jonathan Issac, Bridges, and Kel'el Ware.  I'm not starting Ware. If you want to start OO, start him. If you want to start Issac at Center start him. We can start Clint he doesn't have to play the most minutes at Center.

Who are you realistically getting to start for Hunter and Capela?  Also, explain how you are acquiring them.

To answer your question, I said in another thread I like the BI and Daniels for DJM plus salary trade.  That would solve the 3 issue.  For Center, I'm not sure. It would be best through the draft if there was a player that was a sure thing, but since there's not, it would need to be through trade.  Maybe we start OO but he hasn't proven to be healthy consistently.  So I'm not clear on that one yet.  But I'm pretty confident that I don't want to run it back with Clint starting.  

40 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't edit videos or take clips from YouTube TV and cut them up for proof. But this coach did. 

Here's what he showcased. 

@thecampster

@AHF

@Gray Mule

@REHawksFan

@JayBirdHawk

@marco102

I'll add more later.

 

 

Edey is faster than he looks.  He's so big that he just covers a lot of ground when he moves. So even though he looks slow, he's still plenty fast enough to defend against these teams in college. 

I've already said I've seen enough from him to be willing to take a chance and draft him. Worst case scenario in my mind, we have a superb backup 5 that causes all sorts of problems in limited minutes off the bench.  Best case scenario, we have a top end starting C for years to come.  Given the weakness of the draft overall, I'm comfortable drafting Edey at 10 under either scenario. 

With all that said, I also believe we won't know for sure how he translates until he's actually in the NBA.  We can look at the fastest teams in college all day long, but it still isn't the same as defending an elite NBA athlete.  None of the teams in that video have 5 NBA players running up and down the floor. So the video is nice, but it doesn't really answer the question of whether he can stand up to NBA athletes. 

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Nope. I probably just value Issac more than you.  If you are focused on the picks, just imagine getting three first round picks. Like I said I was trying to be realistic as far as what the Hawks have been getting. 

What's another realistic way to improve the team? Keep Murray? Run it back again? 

 

The biggest problem this year was point of attack defense.  Hence the adding of Delon Wright.  Also, having two point guards on the floor has hurt us because we don't have enough size on the perimeter.  Bogi playing with Trae or Murray improved the defense. 

 

POA defense is always a problem, but the biggest problem this year was the C position, imo. 

I'm just not bringing back Clint or Hinter to start. I'm fine with both off the bench, but starting is a no go.

How many teams in the playoffs would either start for?  Not many I'd imagine. 

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'd start.

Trae

Miles

Hunter

JJ

CC

It gives us the size we need on the court with Trae.  I don't think Clint is going anywhere.  The last month of the season he played really well. 

This saves Bogi during the regular season. You can spot start Bogi and move Bridges to the three if you want.

I just don't believe we are going to make wholesale changes this year.  To me, this is a semi realistic rebuild. 

 

Starting Hunter and CC is a hard pass for me. I'm intrigued by Miles but you aren't doing anything to fix the biggest weakness from this year. 

Keep Hunter, but off the bench. Let CC go or come off the bench.

34 minutes ago, marco102 said:

They won't be. Miles can play 2, 3 or 4 and you have Bogi, AJ, Kobe and Wright who can play the 2.

So are you starting:

Trae

Bogie

Miles

JJ

CC?

I still think we need to upgrade from Clint 

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

I've thought about how to fix the Hawks.  This may not turn them into a championship contender, but it should get them out of the playin and once we are there maybe we can attract that second star. 

1.  Trade Murray to Orlando for Johnathan Issac and a protected first round pick, let's say top 15 protected. This adds some much needed defensive versatility to the front court and Orlando desperately needs good point guard play to help that roster.

2.  Sign Miles Bridges - He won't be going at the top tier free agency price and he's been cleared of his latest charges.  He solves a lot of problems we have.  He's a decent defender, great rebounder, can get his own shot and can play the 2, 3, or 4. 

3.  Sign Delon Wright - Helps with some point of attack defense which is much needed. 

4. Draft a center - My preference is Ware, but whoever you prefer. 

5. I wouldn't re-sign Bay. I like him, but with Issac and Bridges he won't be needed. 

Rest of the roster remains the same. 

1. PG - Trae Young

1.5. Combo Guards - Delon Wright, Kobe Bufkin (both on bench)

2. SG - Miles Bridges, Bogi and AJ - These can play 2 or 3 so we aren't short on SF.

3 SF - De'Andre Hunter, Vit

4. PF - Jalen Johnson, Johnathan Issac, Mo Gueye

5. C - Clint Capela, OO, Kel'el Ware

This roster isn't in cap hell either, so you can move pieces to improve under the new CBA if the results aren't there.

 

I can't go into next year with Hunter and Vit as the primary sf on the roster. Gotta upgrade there. I like Vit a lot, but I'm not starting him off the jump. And Hunter starting is a no go for me. 

On 4/19/2024 at 11:16 AM, AHF said:

I went looking to see if RAPTOR existed anymore and found this page with an alternate version of it:

2023-24 NBA Estimated RAPTOR Player Ratings (and other stats) (substack.com)

In light of that, I thought I would share our team numbers in a variety of statistical categories:

WAR

DJM 6.0

Bogi 5.4

JJ 4.4

Trae 3.7

Bey 2.3

CC 2.2

Hunter 1.4

OO 0.9

Gueye -0.1

Bruno -0.3

W. Matthews -0.3

Kobe -0.3

Patty -0.5

Vit -0.5

G. Mathews -0.5

Trent -0.5

 

ESTIMATED RAPTOR

JJ +1.6

Bogi +1.5

DJM +1.3

Trae +0.9

CC -0.4

Bey -0.5

Hunter -1.0

OO -1.3

Bruno -3.3

G. Mathews -3.4

W. Matthews -3.6

Vit -4.0

Gueye -4.0

Trent -4.8

Kobe -5.0

 

PER

CC 20.7

Trae 20.3

DJM 17.3

OO 16.9

JJ 16.3

Bruno 15.2

Gueye 15.0

Bogi 14.7

Bey 13.1

Hunter 12.7

Kobe 9.1

G. Mathews 8.9

Trent 8.9

Vit 8.4

W. Matthews 8.2

Patty 6.6

 

 

I gotta admit, it's kind of staggering to see Dre rank:

- 7th in WAR on the team

- 7th in RAPTOR

- 10th in PER

- 11th in WS/48

- 10th in BPM

- 13th in VORP

I know he adds value that doesn't always show up in advance metrics, but yikes. Hard to imagine that he ranks so poorly on a lottery team that won 36 games and played numerous g leaguers throughout the season. 

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

You don't need to rely on that article to know that Snyder is not all-in on Trae as the future centerpiece

Just making stuff up now. Good grief. 

20 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think Ressler has been a problem with sticking to a plan if media reports about his role in certain transactions are credible.  So I don't absolve him.

But I do think our front office doesn't do a good job of this either such as with the items I mentioned that were entirely within their purview.  

So I would say we have a problem with failing to identify and commit to a plan and that is a product of both our ownership and our management.  That combined group of decisionmakers is who I refer to when I say "Hawks" and not merely one or the other.

This is going to sound insane and I'm fully aware of it, but hear me out....

The Hawks making a run to the ECF is the singular event that set off a chain reaction of bad decisions.  Had the Hawks only made the 2nd round and then lost to Philly or had they lost to NYK, it is highly likely that they don't decide to level up on their rebuild timeline and start skipping steps.  It is also at least possible that they don't hire Nate to be the full time HC and who knows who they bring in.  

But going as far as they did earlier than expected reset everyone's expectations.  They hired Nate (an unequivocally average, old school coach), raised the expectations to build off the ECF run, and short cut a lot of the typical steps in the rebuild (like allowing time for internal growth).  The next year they got bounced by Miami when they didn't have a 2nd ball handler so they did the reactionary thing and traded the future for DJ and here we are.  

The point is, I think the ECF run is the thing that started the FO down the road of changing directions.  And it's highly likely that this decision didn't come with universal acceptance within the organization.  So they start changing plans mid stream, hire more people with more voices, and it's chaotic and rudderless.  Or so it seems.  

Create plan

Start plan

Continue plan

Implement plan

Complete plan

Deviate from plan is not part of the process. But making the ECF in Year 3 of the plan was also not part of the process.  So here we are.   

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yes, I know, most here pick and choose the credibility of the article based on how much they agree with what is written.  Not exactly a unique phenomenon to HawkSquawk, but that is clearly what happens here.

This is EXACTLY what you are doing.  At least you recognize it.  

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

It's actually very intuitive and how thing always work in the professional world.  People serve their own interest and being openly negative about someone serves zero self-interest.  Being openly positive about someone, particularly a teammate, is very much aligned with self-interest.  The crazy thing is quoting a current teammate as a solid source of "is Trae is a good teammate" lol... only an unhinged toxic locker room guy would trash a current teammate.  Just imagine if you were asked publicly about a coworker and if they were good or not -- most people are going to answer positively in a very public forum regardless of how they feel about the person.

OK.  It's just all a little too convenient.  You are essentially saying we should believe the unsourced negative stuff (and your personal opinion) but not believe any sourced positive stuff.  

Why not just admit YOU don't like him and want others to join you?  At least that would be more intellectually honest than this charade of un-sourced articles and your view from the stands.  

21 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

40 games of watching and observing his behavior with teammates throughout warm ups, timeouts, on the bench, stoppages, etc.  I hope I'm wrong and like Supes says, his teammates love him.  That's just not what I see though.  I get that it's sacrilege to say anything negative around Trae here, but I was hoping there was room for evidence-based opinions.

I think you see what you want to see.  You sit in the stands and expect to see a malcontent and suddenly everything he does is looked at and viewed as negative.  The truth is you don't know one way or the other whether his teammates love him or hate him. It's all just supposition.  And it's done so in a definitive manner, which is what I take umbrage with.

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

"Starting with the locker room, it's no secret there's a serious disconnect between Young, the team's star player, and many -- though some say nearly all -- of his teammates. He is not beloved, sources say, and there's a strong view that Young fails to lead, to understand or care to understand what is required of him, and that as a result the team will never achieve what it should until that reality is fixed."

 

Here is a sourced article from a year ago, if that is what you're asking for.

So to be clear, you are suggesting we should believe "unnamed sources" over guys that are actually on the record saying Trae is a good teammate?  Do you not see how crazy that sounds?  

I know you'll just say that I won't believe anything but that's just not true.  If JC or Huerter or Lou Williams or any of the current team guys came out and said Trae was a bad teammate or was a malcontent, I'd take that extremely seriously.  But none of that has happened.  Right now we have "unnamed sources" and your observations from sitting in the arena.  We also have actual teammates saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you are claiming.  

So which to believe?  

7 minutes ago, shakes said:

 

stats sure are fun!  Allows nerds to act like they understand sports.

That's just a deflection.  The numbers are what they are.  They don't lie.  

Reading your post and this quote comes to mind...

"The fool is the one that sees the facts, knows the truth, but still believes the lies."  

An old Eagles song also comes to mind...

"Ain't no way to hide your lyin eyes..."  

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

https://theathletic.com/5433545/2024/04/22/nba-player-poll-2024-lebron-jordan-goat-celtics-nuggets-rudy-gobert-timberwolves?source=user-shared-article

How is Trae overrated when he's never rated?

Y'all just keep in mind that just like last year, we are talking about a sample size of 81 voters out of over 500 NBA players this year.  And 6 (SIX!!) voted Trae as most overrated.  It's not like the entire NBA is voting him most overrated.  He got 6 votes which - just like last year - gets a giant shoulder shrug from me.  

The lack of respect in the all star voting is FAR more egregious, imo. 

9 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I've talked ad nauseum about Trae's attitude issues, his issues dealing with refs, and his general disconnectedness from the team

Aside from the complaining to the refs (which literally every star in the NBA does), all of the rest are 100% your opinion based on nothing.  Give me a break.  Unless you are with the team, there's is ZERO chance you know anything about Trae's attitude or his connectedness to the team.  

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Look at NY.  They put pieces on that team and if they were healthy they'd be in the conference finals most likely.  All around an undersized PG.  After we beat them they went to work and acquired talent. 

Trae's too small.  Trae's too slow. Trae's too weak. Trae's too blah blah blah.  Not a mention about Brunson from the eggsperts.  Brunson is what, 0.5" taller and has a wingspan that is 1.0" longer?  Give me a break.  If the Hawks put the right guys around Trae they can absolutely win a title with him.  

11 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He's been doing some work for the Hawks.

11 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Like?

9 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Well....we're waiting.

Depends on who you ask. There are some here that think it's a lost cause and nothing will ever change until the ownership changes.  There are others that think we are just a piece or two away from being really good.  

You asked if it's naïve to believe they WILL turn it around.  I think it's perfectly logical and reasonable to believe they CAN turn it around.  Will and Can are two totally different things, obviously. 

I'd say it's probably more naïve than reasonable to believe they WILL turn it around, but that's only because they haven't really taken the first step to turning it around - spend money.  Until they do that, it's hard to believe they are committed to winning at the highest level. 

But, imo, it's perfectly reasonable to believe they CAN turn it around.  I think I read that Ressler is like the 7th richest owner in the NBA.  So it's not like they are hurting for money.  They just need to commit to spending enough to get better.  IMO, the ship has sailed on the internal development approach.  So it's time to implement the spend till you have a title approach.  Can they do that?  Absolutely.  Will they?  

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

"All that dribblin?  Buh-buh-Brunson is just a gamer that does whatever it takes." - They

"All that dribblin?  Trae am just selfish." - Same They

Facts 'r facts.  The rest 'r just opinions. 

Truth.

The thing I will never fathom is why folks that claim to be Hawks fans can clamor for guys that literally play the same way Trae does all the while bemoaning Trae. Just dumb. 

Sitting here watching the Pels / Kings game and wondering why Edey can't be a similar player to JV? 

Not like JV is a high flyer or anything. He's big. He's smart. He's good around the rim. 

I selected keep both which is completely contradictory to what I think should happen.  I just have a feeling that's what's going to happen.  We'll see I guess.  I definitely don't think it works with both, but there's part of me that thinks the Hawks will just chalk this year not working up to injuries and they'll make other changes rather than splitting up Trae and DJ.  I think Quin really likes both players and thinks it can and will work with both.  I think Trae and DJ both want to stay and make it work.  

I don't see it, but that's my thought on what the Hawks will do.  If I was the GM, I'd try to trade DJ to the Pels for BI and Dyson Daniels and then focus my attention on upgrading the C position.