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Convince me Horford can be our CENTER!


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With respect to the championship game where Oden was healthy, Oden had 10 rebounds in 38 minutes against Horford and Horford had 12 rebounds in 34 minutes against Oden.


My brain just exploded trying to figure this out Posted Image

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And please put this into the equation while doing it...No one has refuted this point made by Exodus yet...

Horford's standing reach is only 8'11...that would be at least 2 inches shorter than any other center in the league.

I am more worried about him on defense, than him going up against C's on offense.

Ok, now enlighten me.

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We get it every year. KB, sturt even, Lascar, (I hope I got these right, there are others). They laud whatever player drafting decision was made. They highlight how "defense is important" even if we get Law, or "BPA" even if we get the worst player considered, or how the exception of a player playing well out of positions justifies drafting another player to play out of position (two years in a row).

It comes back in their face about midseason each and every year. They hem and haw about why it's not working but never look squarely in the mirror to acknowledge that THEY WERE WRONG! The next year comes around and they continue to play the role of player evaluator genius, having not gotten a pick right or even close to right in several years, they point to some other logic, this time even more foolish than the last.

I frankly don't understand why these people still have a player evaluation voice here at HS just like I do not understand why BK still has a job. Both are as "good" at what they profess to do as the other.

W

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yeah i am sure that Howards standing reach of 9'3.5" has nothing to do with the fact that he leads the league in rebounding.
Have you watched Howard Play??? His advantage is his strength. IF Standing Reach were so important, Yao Ming would be the best rebounder in the game. Ming is #18 in rebounding... There's 17 people who rebound better than him... ANd Ming has a 9'8" standing reach...Why isn't that 9'8" standing reach making him the best rebounder in the game??David Lee is in the top ten of rebounding but his standing reach is only 8'9".Andrew Bogut is #23 in rebounding but his standing reach is 9'2".Standing reach has virtually nothing to do with rebounding. Marvin Williams have a 9'1" standing reach, he is one of the worst rebounders I have seen.Strength, Footwork, and desire are much better predictors of who will be a good rebounder. Again, Explain the mystery of SHelden... How is it that he's the best rebounder in his class when Bargnani played more and has a standing reach of 9'2"?
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David Lee is in the top ten of rebounding but his standing reach is only 8'9".
Actually it is 8'10.5".

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Marvin Williams have a 9'1" standing reach, he is one of the worst rebounders I have seen.
Actually it is 9' and he plays outside all the time.

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How is it that he's the best rebounder in his class when Bargnani played more and has a standing reach of 9'2"?
Because Bargnani is always standing around at the 3 pt line on offense.

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Why isn't that 9'8" standing reach making him the best rebounder in the game??
Partially because his vertical is barely high enough to jump over the morning paper.Now lets look at the top 10 rebounder1 Garnett2 Chander 9'2" standing reach3 Howard 9'3.5"4 Boozer 9'1"5 Camby6 Okafor 9'2.5"7 Jefferson 9'2"8 Bosh 9'1"9 Ben Wallace 10 DuncanWe don't know the standing reaches of Garnett, Camby and Duncan but since they are obviously tall with long arms it is pretty safe to assume they have a high standing reach. We also don't know Ben's standing reach.So what do these guys have in common? They either have very high standing reaches or they have great strength/athleticism, or in some cases both.Only a complete fool would say standing reach has nothing to do with rebounding.
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The tallest guy with the highest Standing reach in the game... Not the best rebounder?? You also conveniently forgot Andrew Bogut too... He's got a 9'2" Standing reach.Both are "post players" #18 and #23 in rebounding...The thing you failed to mention about the others are that they are strong...Moreover, this is the ranking amoung ROOKIES...1 Shelden Williams , ATL 2 Paul Millsap , UTA 3 Craig Smith , MIN 4 LaMarcus Aldridge , POR5 Jorge Garbajosa , TOR6 Rudy Gay , MEM7 Justin Williams , SAC 8 Brandon Roy , POR9 Renaldo Balkman , NYK10 Andrea Bargnani , TOR Now last year, you harped on How Shelden would not be a good rebounder because of his "Standing Reach"... well if standing reach is such a factor, why WHY is Shelden the leader in Rebounding for his class???You know this Argument is QED!!

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The tallest guy with the highest Standing reach in the game... Not the best rebounder??


Looks like you conveniently didn't read my response so i will post it again.

Yao's vertical is barely enough to jump over the morning paper which negates his standing reach to a certain extent.

As i said before, which you cant (and didn't even try to) argue with, the top rebounders have high standing reaches and/or great strength/athleticism.

Bogut and Ming have one of the two, but are lacking in the athleticism department. Standing reach certainly isn't the only factor in rebounding but your mind isn't capable of processing that.

In your mind standing reach is the ONLY factor in rebounding, or it is NO factor in rebounding. You can't mentally process the fact that there may be areas in between. You have my sympathy.

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Well, the point that i made is that it's not about standing reach... more about strength and positioning. The same people you use for standing reach are some of the strongest guys in the NBA.

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I'm sure that they do...However for you to claim Standing reach and the guy with the highest standing reach in the game is #18... IS a JOKE...Moreover, why is Shelden first in his class? What happened to Lamarcus? What happened to all the guys with better standing reaches??

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Why is that Exodus?

Does it have anything to do with a player being wise enough to get good POSITION or is there some strength component...

Keep tAlking, you're doing a wonderful job of proving my point!

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Why is that Exodus?
You already answered your own question

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Does it have anything to do with a player being wise enough to get good POSITION or is there some strength component
An older player is more mature physically and more experienced. Most people would consider than common sense. There are a lot of components that go into any part of the game. But if you are seriously lacking in one of them it is going to limit how well you do. You only focus on the areas that are convenient to you while pretending others don't matter. I am able to recognize all of the things that play a role in the game, you aren't.
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If standing reach was the end all be all of statistics then the best rebounder in the league would be Yao Ming. Yet Yao failed to even record double digit reboundsIn fact Yao has only recorded double digit rebounds once in 5 years in the league.He hasn't come close in leading the league in blocks with that reach either and it didn't stop him from getting abused by Carlos Boozer.Bottom line is that defense is more about a mentality, quick feet, and positioning than it is standing reach.It's why Bill Russell could stop Wilt Chamberlain. It's why Rodman was effective on the Bulls.And it will be why Al Horford is effective on the Hawks.Now I just hope our coaching staff has enough sense to at least give him a try.I think the only way Horford will not be an effective C is if we don't give him a chanceTo think Zaza is a better C because he's a whopping 1 inch taller is a joke

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Tell him again Busy.Every Year, Exodus pulls out these Standing reach arguments, and every year, he's proven wrong.Exodus don't want to hear about:Bill RussellDennis RodmanCharles BarkleyShelden WilliamsNor does he want to hear aboutYao MingAndrew BogutAndrea BargnaniThe point is standing reach is a fallacy. Strength and positioning is a better predictor of how good a rebounder a player will be.That's why exodus is bringing up Age as if he's not really talking about Strength and Positioning.Anyway, I think Horford will be a good rebounder, but he's not bringing a skillset that we didn't already have. I think he's going to be a great disappointment.

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You must be kidding...You need to understand a few things about rebounding. First off, the most important aspect of rebounding is position... To get position requires strength and good footwork. Go look up the games of Dennis Rodman. Horford is faster (running north south) but check out his lane agility. Lane Agility is a measure of how well a player moves his feet and changes direction. Footwork is paramount for rebounding. Horford sucks at moving his feet. Horford capitalized in college because he was aggressive and he played beside Noah and Brewer. When you have more than one aggressive rebounder on a team it usually amplifies a players ability... Namely in college where only bigs rebound well. However, Horford will have a long ways to go in the pros... Without good footwork, he will not get good position. The standing reach has nothing to do with rebounding. Nobody is every standing fully outstretched when they rebound, they are usually trying to muscle for a position. It's a great joke everytime you guys bring up this useless stat... Shelden has a "bad standing reach" yet, he was the best rookie rebounder and if given the minutes, he would have been amoung the best in the league.
I don't know why you're saying this to me because exodus is the one who is all about standing reach. I admit reach is a factor, but positioning, strength, instinct, and aggressiveness are more important. Reach is only one of about 6 factors.
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In some pre-draft coverage, Bill Russell and Bill Walton were talking to Oden as they road in a car. Russell made the point that most rebounds take place below the rim. So no matter how tall you are or high high you can jump, there are other factors that determine who gets to the ball. Zbo
And I think that Bill Russell guy knows a little something about rebounding
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I also remember Horace Grant (I think) saying that rebounding is about Timing and position. All along the way, you will find that many of the great rebounders were not just tall guys with long reaches, but guys who had mastered the positioning and timing.

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If standing reach was the end all be all of statistics then the best rebounder in the league would be Yao Ming. Yet Yao failed to even record double digit rebounds


Nice strawman.

Go find the quote where i said standing reach was the be all and end all.

*crickets*

What i said is that standing reach is a major fact in rebounding, defense and offense. But it is not the only factor in any of those things.

That is what you simpletons don't seem to grasp. You think if there is some other factor in rebounding that plays a role, like strength or positioning, then that means standing reach doesn't matter. it doesn't work like that.

Yao has the highest standing reach which helps him but he is slow and can't jump, which hurts him. Does that mean that his stading reach isn't important? Of course not.

If Yao standing reach was 8'8" and he still slow and couldn't jump, then he wouldn't get hardly any rebounds at all. The fact is that almost all of the rebounds Yao does get are BECAUSE he has the highest standing reach. After all he doesn't get them because he is athletic or moves well to get position.

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