Article on Socialized Medicine


KB21
 Share

Recommended Posts

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.a...270338135202343

I find it interesting that many of the countries that currently have government controlled health care systems are looking to privatize their health care because the quality of care in socialized systems is pathetic. Yet, we have a bunch of bleeding heart liberals here in the US who want this type of system in the US.

Once again, health care should be privatized. The competition it would bring out would lower the prices of health care costs, and maybe it convince people to have a personal responsibility for their own health care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

while i am an advocate for socialized medicine, i don't believe it is the cure-all only answer. that article shows some problems with it, but living in america shows problems with a completely privitized system, too. if the u.s. did set up a socialized system, i don't think it would end the private sector, as it is already so entrenched in the system. i would think that ideally, we'd have both systems at the same time. you would have the socialized system as a safety net to help catch those that need even the most basic help and can't get it any other way, and you'd have a private system still in place for those who want more and can afford an upgrade. i would think it would be no different than our current private and public school systems. i didn't read the whole article, but i did see where the doctor tried setting up a private practice, but got in trouble because that is illegal there, which is wrong imo.

also, i think that adding a socialized system to the private healthcare system would do much more to add a level of compitition and lower health care costs than just pitting private against private would do, as it hasn't seemed to help lower costs with the current market in place.

just my two bits worth, i'll step away from the podium, now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, you would see very few physicians sign on with the government funded entity when there is a private choice.

There is no place for socialized medicine in the US. I'll be finishing med school in May, and if it even remotely looks like the country will move towards a socialized system, I will not practice medicine. I'm not going to spend all the time that I have put into this to have the government dictate what I make even more than it already does (mainly because private insurance companies use medicare baselines as a means for their payment set up).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why Hillary must not become President. I don't believe she'll be able to get it through Congress, I don't even want her to try!

My oldest daughter was born in Germany, in one of their socialist hospitals and my wife had to have an C-section. They used a scaple to cut through! They didn't have lasers. When my second daughter was born the same way at Kennestone Hospital in Marietta, I watched the doctor using a laser pull out a pound of scare tissue from the first sergery. He made the statement, "Who butchered you!"

The quality of medicine would drastically decline!

Our medical cost aren't due to private care it's due to Hospitals working on a 50% or less payment system. This means they expect more than half the people treated will never pay, so the cost is made up in overcharging those who can. We also have the highest medical insurances for doctors and hospital, because our judicial system has given obscene judgements against the medical industry.

Our system is already somewhat socialized, due to the free care for illegals, welfare recipents and those who are considered poor. One of my (former) employees wife just had a baby and guess who has to pay the bill...Your taxes! When I offered opportunities to make more money, he didn't want to do it.

Speaking of Taxes...My German friends pay 48% income taxes for their socialized medicine and they only made 60K. To hell with that!

If the US turnes to socialized medicine I'll be moving my family and my company to another country!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Also not a fan of the idea of socialized medicine for the reasons mentioned. I would not mind seeing some types of limitations on some of the outrageous costs and abusive billing practices, though. Not just from doctors with things like medicare abuse but also with things like prescription drugs. The drug companies definitely need to reap their reward for expensive R&D but the government does things like failing to actually negotiate for rates which is also removing the free market checks on prices from the equation.

I would not want a revolution but would want tweaks to the system on those things.

On the issue of coverage, I would like to see serious tax incentives for employers as well as incentives for mutliple small employers to pool their resources and create a multi-employer plan that doesn't cripple any of the individual companies and takes advantage of the lower costs for larger plans not normally available to small and mid-size employers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you all make interesting points that i certainly have to consider. i admittedly don't know all the ins and outs of it all, and appreciate hearing the various sides from different people.

i just have a major beef with how the system is set up now. i mean, i always make sure my son is fully covered (which i, not my or my wife's employer, have to pay), but i have had to go without myself. when i got a new job recently, i had to go for six months without insurance b/c the cobra plan offered would've cost me almost 25% of my take home pay! and even with all the money spent on insurance, it doesn't cover all the costs, the co-pay, the Rx, etc, which i still wouldn't be able to really afford even while "covered". basically, the insurance is only there should something horrible happen and i have to stay in the hospital for days, weeks, etc. it's frustrating, because if something is wrong with me or my son, i don't immediately seek help like i should, but have to weigh in on how serious it is/might be vs. how much of a finacial impact it could have.

it's even worse for women of child-bearing age. once while i was working in atl, i checked with my employer how much it would cost to add my wife to my plan, and where it was costing me something like $175/mo., it would cost an additional $600 or $700-something a month for my wife. that is some serious cheese to spend every month for something you will only rarely or occationally use, and will still have to pay even more for services with the coverage. so, unfortunately, my wife has had to go without insurance on various occations, too.

if only i had more trust in my ability to save my money, i would be saving the money i have had to spend on the insurance, instead of giving it to them, in anticipation of future medical bills, though i'd still be screwed should i have a major accident or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To top it off, this idea of pay for performance is about as ridiculous as they come. The committee making the decision on whether you got the correct outcome with your treatment won't take into account noncompliance, which adversely effects the outcome of your treatment.

If I'm treating a patient with COPD and that patient doesn't quit smoking and doesn't use the medications I have prescribed, then I get dinged because of a poor outcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: "tweaking" .. This is the key. There's a happy medium to be reached. Clearly, socialized medicine a la Europe does not work, but our system has flaws as well (namely the uninsured due to unemployment or by working for small companies, like me!) I think it's important that we do need to realize we have to make decisions regarding how to care for our broken and helpless people. (A good example here would be the drug addicted and mentally ill homeless.) That's not 'bleeding heart liberalism' so much as it is moral sense.

I also second the notion that these non-basketball discussions are great, especially in the offseason smile.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there are better ways to help the less fortunate without having the federal government control the funds and dictate what gets paid and what doesn't. The democrats goal isn't to have universal health care in the US. It's to have big government, and democrats want to use the talk about the uninsured as a means of getting more and more people to rely upon the government.

Every hospital I've ever been associated with has some type of charity program that is largely funded by the private sector. I have never seen a patient denied treatment no matter what their ability to pay is, and I've seen several patients with no insurance and have helped get a few of them on the hospital charity programs.

The next topic I'm going to bring up is a controversial one, but this has been my experience. Medicare was set up to help the elderly. Medicaid was set up to help the disabled and the less fortunate children. However, most of the patients I have seen that are on Medicaid shouldn't be on it. Now, I realize that Medicaid is state funded and not federal funded, but when I hear all of the crying about how there isn't enough money in the Medicaid program and how they are going to have to cut reimbursements, I get a little irritated. If they wouldn't allow some of these lazy ass society leaches access to this program and gave it to who it was initially intended, they wouldn't be in a money crunch. I'd rather see Medicaid completely abolished than to continue it as is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's just it KB. How do we get these politicians to stop making people believe that the government will always be there, from cradle to grave, to take care of all their problems? It's oversimplifying it but most of this country's problems are rooted in the fact that too many people figure out that due to political correctness or misplaced compassion, they can take advantage of our system and have no responsibility for themselves whatsoever. I mean it's Marxism. From each according to the ability, to each according to their needs. Hasn't the world learned that this country reached it's greatness based on liberty and personal responsibility?

I would also like to know why is it that health care providers are forced to make applicants accept insurance policies that cover things such as substance abuse or maternity if they don't want those coverages. This drives up the price right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

Quote:


Once again, health care should be privatized. The competition it would bring out would lower the prices of health care costs, and maybe it convince people to have a personal responsibility for their own health care.


The truth of the matter is that privatized medicine would NEVER lower the prices. It's beyond supply and demand, it goes into an unspoken monolopy. Just like gas stations in a certain town. There's an unspoken agreement that if your prices stay high, my prices will stay high because there's so much demand for health care that there will never be a true supply demand relationship. There's is a demand/price relationship. If they will pay the price, that's what the price will be... regardless of how much it really cost!

What exactly is a "personal responsibility for their own health care."?

It sounds like a good talking point but when you really look at it.. It's BS. Other than Millionaires who has a "personal responsibility for their own health care?" Everybody working invests in insurance (health insurance). IS there something more? Are you suggesting setting aside a budget for personal health care?

I think you need to open your eyes and realize that the moniker "richest nation in the world" doesn't mean that everybody has money.

Morever, the means by which health professionals get paid should not effect how adequately they do their jobs. Your first statement makes probably one of the most stupid inferences ever. You're saying that if Health care become socialized that somehow the quality of Health Care is going to be compromised?? I didn't know medical schools trained Doctors to do their jobs based on cost and how much they can make versus that old adage of Do no harm and the rest of the Hippocratic oath. By the way, does the Hippocratic oath mean anything these days?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

Quote:


You're saying that if Health care become socialized that somehow the quality of Health Care is going to be compromised??


I don't know if that's what he was saying, but the above statement is true. You're looking at it from a "doctors doing a worse job" perspective, which I don't think is the case. It has more to do with the failings of that type of system. ANy time you give away something for free, people will always take advantage of it. So when people can go to the doctor for anything, they will just go. Oh I have a cough, lets go to the doctor. So the more the system gets abused, the more rules and stipulations are put in place which makes the system even harder to use, which in turn lowers the quality of the overall system and its ability to help people, but that doesn't mean the doctors aren't doing the job to the best of their abilities.

tax funded health care is not the answer. There needs to be something done so that everyone can get health care coverage, but giving the government more money and allowing them to decide where it goes is not and will never be the answer to any of our problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

I have to disagree here too.

you say

Quote:


So when people can go to the doctor for anything, they will just go.


I don't think that this is the case. Even now, the main deterrent for me a most people I know to going to the doctor has nothing to do with money, it's about time. Waiting is a beast and time is money for me. My last Physical required me to wait 3 months. My doctor is booked most of the time. I think if health care was opened to everybody (not neccessarily free, but available to everybody), time would stop people from abusing the Health care system in the way that you say.

Moreover, if there was a "socialized" system of medicine, with that would also be a system of checks and balances that can also benefit the doctor as far as time goes. Generally stating that a doctor can see only so many patients a day.

However, from the perspective of a person who goes tot he doctor, Right now, Doctors pick when they want to be available and they charge whatever the heck they want to charge and they can because there's no regulations. On-line information is hurting the Health care field because people can now get a realistic view of what things should cost and in some cases, people can make their own diagnosis without the doctor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

It is the case. If you take the time to research it you'll find that nearly every country that offers a tax supported medical system is stuggling because the system is abused by people who really don't need to go see a doctor. They wake up and have a stuffy nose or some aches or a fever and they go because it's free and most people just don't care to not abuse it because, hey, it's free right?

When I wake up with aches, pains or a fever, I don't care to spend teh $25 it's going to cost me to go see a doctor because 1). I know i'll get better in a few days anyway and 2). why waste my $25 when I know I'll get better in a few days. The majority of people simply will not show that responsibility when it's given away for free.

That's why a tax supported system will fail 10 times out of 10. You cannot give it away for free because it's a universal fact that it will be abused by people who simply don't need it, but will use it because it's free.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

I don't think you can put most "socialized nations" in the same category with the US. First and foremost, we have a stronger work ethic than most "socialized nations". Secondly, I think it's very possible to put a fee on health care without offering it freely. I think that there should be a regular HMO type system whereby a copay (maybe $25) is expected on each visit that is not a doctor ordered follow-up. If this is the case, then people will be less likely to abuse the system. And if they do, then the person really making out is the doctor. Just think about it. You're a doctor. Somebody comes to you with a back ache. You charge them $25 to see you, you listen to them about 5 minutes, you send them on their way with a $30 prescription for a bottle of motrin.

The Doctor and the Pharmacist has made out. IS that really abuse? I don't think Health care should be totally free, but I think that every person should have access to the same type of health care offered to the congress and senate. They have a choice of between 5 and 10 health plans in each city. Some are HMOs, some are regular insurance with preferred provider programs. They select a plan they like, the federal government pays a large portion of the premium, and they pay the rest. For more expensive plans with a lot of choices of doctors and hospitals and more services, Senators and Congressmen pay more. For the basic plan they pay a little premium. I like that idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

As someone who knows people who have no insurance, I would like to see something in place so they could get low cost coverage. I just don't think taxing anyone for that coverage is the answer. I would like to see something where everyone can have a small percentage of their wages taken out and get reasonable coverage. If they elect not to pay into it, they get nothing out of it. It just shouldn't be funded in any way by tax dollars. There are far too many creative options out that would work without increasing taxes or further feeding the welfare mentality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

A right? You mean like Born with it? No. Not really.

I think that every citizen should have access to affordable health care but a right... NO.

I also think we need better borders. For this very reason. Those who say open borders obviously don't understand citizenship. I'm also against the prejudice shown with borders. It should be just as illegal to cross the Canadian Border illegally as it is to cross the southern border. This Nation has a right to know who is here and ONLY tax paying citizen should be privy to benefits given to citizens. And pregnant women who are foreign and have babies here still carry the citizenship of their home country and so do their children.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.