Obama

[Swatguy]

He has stayed on the "High road". His ascend is unexplainable for me.

Whatayathink?

[PureGreatness]

i knew obama would beat hilary to be honest. i really dont wanna say this but to all the whites feel that obama isnt a better candidate the hilary? i was argueing with this dude online and he was saying bs about obama aint a good senator but he said one thing that made me go crazy and it wasnt even racist. he said "Hilary and Barock pretty much share the same views on every topic except for health care where they have a slightly different views but i wouldnt put him in office because he isnt a good candidate".

um if the have the same views...WHY NOT VOTE FOR HIM DUMBYS

believe i not i know blacks who wont vote for him but they give me good reason(i guess). but i havent a good arguement for why mccain is better than obama from a white. A VOTE FOR MCCAIN IS ANOTHER VTE FOR BUSH...AND WE SEE HOW THAT TURNED OUT.

i dont wanna start a discussion on why hilary is better than borack because shes not( and u wont to online battle me because you wont beat me in a arguement). but that ticks me off.

[Eddielives]

Aside from being the most liberal candidate ever to be nominated for the presidency, I believe Obama is a Marxist. He had an affinity for Marxist professors in college and still is a very extreme left wing individual. One question for Obama supporters....what is this "change" that he believe in? Could someone define his vision because it seems to me to be a mass hypnosis that most of his supporters are under. That phrase was thought up by think tanks and polling to see what would stir the emotions of people and that's it. It's hollow and meaningless. Another question...what has Obama accomplished in his political career? Please, serious responses only.

[NJHAWK]

One question for Obama supporters....what is this "change" that he believe in? Could someone define his vision because it seems to me to be a mass hypnosis that most of his supporters are under. That phrase was thought up by think tanks and polling to see what would stir the emotions of people and that's it. It's hollow and meaningless. Another question...what has Obama accomplished in his political career? Please, serious responses only. Exactly!!! I have asked this same question before as well. Every politician says they will change something. This guy just keeps saying he is for change and he will change things. WTF? Are Americans stupid enough to act on those hollow words alone? He acts like he is this guy who is only attached to the people and is not part of the corporate elite and doesnt accept support from oil companies and such. When in truth it has already been proven that he does. Does anybody really believe he will take on these oil companies? I mean seriously, he would end up like JFK if he did that. I know he has support from all races and creeds and alot of young people who are naive enough to think this guy can sweep out what is wrong with this country like he swept them off their voting feet with a few hyped up speeches. I know their will be millions of blacks who will vote for Obama that normally would not vote at all. While I think its great that they want to vote and hopefully will continue to vote after this election, I also think it is somewhat racist that they will only vote because there is a black candidate running.

[Swatguy]

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.

Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: Obama will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.

[NJHAWK]

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Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.

Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: Obama will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.

I hate George Bush, he is the worst President in my lifetime. He however has used the same tactics you talk about Obama proposing. He tries to buy off Americans with these tax rebates. The thing is most low income families get all their tax money back anyhow if they have children. Anyone with half a brain should be able to do their own taxes unless you have alot of complicated investments or own your own buisness. Honestly I think Bush's refunds are better than the 500 dollars you mention. As far as simplifying, it seems the feds are year by year making it easier to do your own return. I think Turbo tax cost like 30 or 40 dollars if you cant handle the job. I dont think a guy saving you an extra 40 bucks is a reason to elect him President. His proposal may not even get off the ground floor with the feds anyhow. The 200 billion hours of aggrevation and 2 billion dollars in fees you mention are of no interest to the average person. The average person wants to know how much it will save them. I do my own taxes so it wont save me squat. Bushes rebates are more $$$, its the only thing he has done right as President but its still more. This is not even change much less the radical change Obama preaches.

[PureGreatness]

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One question for Obama supporters....what is this "change" that he believe in? Could someone define his vision because it seems to me to be a mass hypnosis that most of his supporters are under. That phrase was thought up by think tanks and polling to see what would stir the emotions of people and that's it. It's hollow and meaningless. Another question...what has Obama accomplished in his political career? Please, serious responses only.

Exactly!!! I have asked this same question before as well. Every politician says they will change something. This guy just keeps saying he is for change and he will change things. WTF? Are Americans stupid enough to act on those hollow words alone? He acts like he is this guy who is only attached to the people and is not part of the corporate elite and doesnt accept support from oil companies and such. When in truth it has already been proven that he does. Does anybody really believe he will take on these oil companies? I mean seriously, he would end up like JFK if he did that. I know he has support from all races and creeds and alot of young people who are naive enough to think this guy can sweep out what is wrong with this country like he swept them off their voting feet with a few hyped up speeches. I know their will be millions of blacks who will vote for Obama that normally would not vote at all. While I think its great that they want to vote and hopefully will continue to vote after this election, I also think it is somewhat racist that they will only vote because there is a black candidate running.

BULLSHIT!!! it aint racist because there will be whites who will vote for McCain because they dont want a black president. I heard blacks say they wont vote for Obama because they think he will get killed if he was elected which surprisingly in this country is unlikely.What Hilary done to seperate her from Obama?

i think many whites are mad that obama beat hilary....hilary wasnt gonna be no better than obama.

[DrReality]

Carter was an unknown when he took the spotlight and so was Clinton. That's not uncommon. Neither had done all that much.

The problem is that the whole system is so screwed up that I don't know that anyone can make that big a difference. I heard someone raise the question of we've spent hom many million or billions in the process of deciding candidates and come up with what?

In the larger picture we continue to take hits on the world scene and lose respect. The dollor is in a vulnerable place, oil is rising and politicians talk about b.s. issues. I don't know what change could be effected that would have an immediate impact; ie develop additional oil sites so we are not so dependent on foriegn oil and/or alternatives to oil burning cars. both of these should have been done at least a decade ago, but Bush's oilman/ cowboy b.s. leaves us flatfooted. I'm concerned about our country for my children and what we will leave them.

We fight amongst oursevles and wolves outside of our country are taking advantage.

[NJHAWK]

BULLSHIT!!! it aint racist because there will be whites who will vote for McCain because they dont want a black president. I heard blacks say they wont vote for Obama because they think he will get killed if he was elected which surprisingly in this country is unlikely.What Hilary done to seperate her from Obama?

i think many whites are mad that obama beat hilary....hilary wasnt gonna be no better than obama. So your saying that the millions of blacks who voted this year that didnt vote before there was a black candidate are not racist BECAUSE there will be whites that are going to vote for McCain because they dont want a black President? What kind of half ayss logic is that? Both groups ARE RACIST. Just because there will be alot of racist whites who dont vote for Obama because he is black doesnt excuse the blacks who didnt vote before that are voting now BECAUSE Obama is BLACK from being RACIST. I agree there are alot of whites who wont vote for a black President. I agree that is already documented that millions of black voters voted for the 1st time because there is a black candidate. Guess what BOTH GROUPS ARE RACIST. Stop hideing behind a double standard.

[NJHAWK]

What does Hillary have to do with any of this now. She is gone goodbye. She gave her support Obama speech and can hit the road. The only way she is relavent in a McCain/ Obama discussion is if Obama chooses her as his VP. As far as my vote well it wont be McCain thats for sure. McCain is a sure thing in that you know you will get a longer war in Iraq and a good chance of War with Iran. You know the economy will still be down the shyyter. With Obama you have a roll of the dice. You know most of what he says he will do is either bullshyyt or he is to dam naive to realize he cant do it. You know you have to worry about his willingness to deal with radical muslims. Why he wants to meet with that wack job in Iran is beyond me. I just think its sad to say both guys running for office have been linked to racism and said or done racist things. Both candidates sukkk. The ? is can either of them possibly sukk worse than Bush?

[Eddielives]

Sorry guy but this "working family" crap is code for someone with major class envy issues. Anyone who thinks that the upper class don't "work" for their money needs to go and find a job from a poor person. Add "fairness" to the tax structure? Are you fing kidding me? The upper income earners in this country are bleeding from the rectum with the current tax structure and you and others like Obama want to "take those profits" and redistribute it to the "working families." That is called unfair my friend. And, for the record, I am not one of those upper income earners so I'm speaking from that "working" class group that you and Obama are so stridently seeking justice for. Gimme a break. There is a bill out there and 2 New York Times bestselling books about the fair tax, JOhn Linder's bill that is so simple and would do so much good for this country it hurts to think about it. But it would take power away from politicians and put it back into the hand of the people, the consumers, so the politicians, repubs and dems alike, will fight it unless the people get behind it. Please research it if you really want to see the tax structure simplified and the tax burden on the poor completely eliminated. Okay that's enough from me for now.

[Swatguy]

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So your saying that the millions of blacks who voted this year that didnt vote before there was a black candidate are not racist BECAUSE there will be whites that are going to vote for McCain because they dont want a black President? What kind of half ayss logic is that? Both groups ARE RACIST. Just because there will be alot of racist whites who dont vote for Obama because he is black doesnt excuse the blacks who didnt vote before that are voting now BECAUSE Obama is BLACK from being RACIST. I agree there are alot of whites who wont vote for a black President. I agree that is already documented that millions of black voters voted for the 1st time because there is a black candidate. Guess what BOTH GROUPS ARE RACIST. Stop hideing behind a double standard.

Survey's say, not only are there significant "new" Black voters also there are significant "new" White voters. There is a lkegion of young White voters voting and supporting Obama. For decades there have been black voters voting in White candidates.

This is the appeal of Obama. His message is it is time to Get over the racism. It is time to opporate in the business as normal. There are sheets over the heads of millions shielding Americans from the devious works of Washington. Spending Billions on a lie of war while the economy, education, health care issues are compromised.

This is what Obama is saying. One person cannot change the ills of America but the voice of a President heard by millions echoing millions of those that demand change.

And that is the big deal. The big deal is not that he is Black the "Big" is he has the strength of the collective will. This Will is not the game of politics for ill gotten gain. It is the Will of mothers that need health care for children. The Will of those who despise war especially a lie that is killing soldiers and others for the gain of few. The Will of young kids that must have higher education to compete for jobs and carreers but cannot afford to persue school.

Question: What kind of civilization that does not educate and provide for the health of the people?

So much time and rhetoric is wasted because Obama is Black.

Look out, a lot of White people support Obama. Just as many Black people support Whites.

It is time to get over bigotry and get on to getting rid of the fat cats that hate and kill, that promote ignorance and a dwindling Middle class.

Our borders are being terrorized economically.

Question: Do we want to be absorbed by the European dollar, Bush's "New One World"?

It is time for these changes and change is not a hollow concept.

[NJHAWK]

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[chillzatl]

The only change that Obama is about is changing the look and sound of the presidency. Apart from that he offers no policy changes from any other democrat to run for office in the last century. He's for raising taxes on businesses (this isn't just the corporate fat cats). He's for giving more tax cuts to the people who pay the fewest taxes. He's for giving the government more power to make decisions for us and he's for increased government spending (more wasteful programs).

What irks me is the way he talks about the economy and gas prices. He stumps like it's the governments fault and he's the guy to fix it, but when discussing both issues intelligently (say in an interview) he readily admits that the majority of our economic problems are the result of bad decisions by a few key industries (mortgage, housing) and that oil companies and the government aren't to blame for gas prices because they don't have much control over them.

[NJHAWK]

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The only change that Obama is about is changing the look and sound of the presidency. Apart from that he offers no policy changes from any other democrat to run for office in the last century. He's for raising taxes on businesses (this isn't just the corporate fat cats). He's for giving more tax cuts to the people who pay the fewest taxes. He's for giving the government more power to make decisions for us and he's for increased government spending (more wasteful programs). There is no more wasteful program then Iraq. Money wise and waste of young american lives wise as well. Like Rickey Waters once said " For who, for what". Maybe it was because of the " DRAUFF" LMFAO

[chillzatl]

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The only change that Obama is about is changing the look and sound of the presidency. Apart from that he offers no policy changes from any other democrat to run for office in the last century. He's for raising taxes on businesses (this isn't just the corporate fat cats). He's for giving more tax cuts to the people who pay the fewest taxes. He's for giving the government more power to make decisions for us and he's for increased government spending (more wasteful programs). There is no more wasteful program then Iraq. Money wise and waste of young american lives wise as well. Like Rickey Waters once said " For who, for what". Maybe it was because of the " DRAUFF" LMFAO

If that's what's most important to you, that's fine, but that doesn't alter the truth behind what I said. If you think getting out of Iraq is some miracle cure for anything, you're out of touch.

Also, learn to put your reply BELOW the quoted portion of the quote, not inside of it.

[DJlaysitup]

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...The problem is that the

whole system is so screwed up

that I don't know that anyone can make that big a difference. ..

Good point DrR...it certainly won't be immediate. It takes time to change things back to normal. All the Administration's Departments have been politicized in the last 7 years. Justice, Treasury, HHS, EPA, Agriculture, FEMA, etc. We need actual experts who know thier craft in charge of these Departments instead of political hacks...even then it will likely take a couple years for them to get things working again. The MANY intelligence services need to revert back to their normal "mission" instead of just doing politics and dirty tricks. The Dept. of Education needs to be revitalized. Basically everything needs to get fixed.

This may make it seem like I'm a raving lunatic liberal but I'm not - I'm simply a social moderate and a fiscal conservative. I don't care who marries who if we can fix the other "much more important" stuff...and reduce the national debt that my children will be responsible for.

[Plainview1981]

So I guess your for McCain?

[NJHAWK]

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[Diesel]

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One question for Obama supporters....what is this "change" that he believe in?

I haven't decided 100% yet, but to answer your question. The change is that he's not an insider to the Washington way of doing things. He didn't take Pact money nor did he take large amounts from anybody other than the American people. Therefore, unlike others, he's not a president who is held hostage by lobbyist or anybody else.

Now I keep reading where EddieLives and some new guy (probably EddieLives) keeps referring to Obama as a Marxist. I got some definition on it because I wanted the readers to be the judge...

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Marxism is summed up in the Encarta Reference Library as “a theory in which class struggle is a central element in the analysis of social change in Western societies.” Marxism is the antithesis of capitalism which is defined by Encarta as “an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods, characterized by a free competitive market and motivation by profit.” Marxism is the system of socialism of which the dominant feature is public ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange.

Under capitalism, the proletariat, the working class or “the people,” own only their capacity to work; they have the ability only to sell their own labor. According to Marx a class is defined by the relations of its members to the means of production. He proclaimed that history is the chronology of class struggles, wars, and uprisings. Under capitalism, Marx continues, the workers, in order to support their families are paid a bare minimum wage or salary. The worker is alienated because he has no control over the labor or product which he produces. The capitalists sell the products produced by the workers at a proportional value as related to the labor involved. Surplus value is the difference between what the worker is paid and the price for which the product is sold.

An increasing immiseration of the proletariat occurs as the result of economic recessions; these recessions result because the working class is unable to buy the full product of their labors and the ruling capitalists do not consume all of the surplus value. A proletariat or socialist revolution must occur, according to Marx, where the state (the means by which the ruling class forcibly maintains rule over the other classes) is a dictatorship of the proletariat. Communism evolves from socialism out of this progression: the socialist slogan is “From each according to his ability, to each according to his work.” The communist slogan varies thusly: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”

It's interesting that racist use that term Marxism often. You can find where people call Martin Luther King Jr. a Marxist too?

I guess anybody who dare speak of the haves and the have nots must be a Marxist.

Well, a funny thing is about to happen. America, that great nation is behind all these other countries in everything. America, that great nation is about to become a consumer nation only. Soon, there won't be haves in America. Only have nots. And who do we have to thanks for this? It's not Obama and his "Marxism". I think it's Bushes and every republican who always try to stretch the gap between the haves and the have nots. What do you call a middle class killer?