For You Rap Fans.

[Diesel]

I'm not an expert in this, but I just thought I'd through these out there.

[atlien]

Of course I gotta go with my dude Andre

[Theeyo]

I also went with Andre...if I had more votes Nas & Em woulda gotten one each also LOL

[crimedog]

Pac was the most expressive, Biggie was the most natural.

Nas was pretty nasty too.

Andre is my personal favorite.

His chops aren't up to these dudes but I always thought Luda was the funniest guy out there. Aren't many non-comedy albums that would consistently make me laugh as much as Word of Mouf.

Edited January 27, 2009 by crimedog

[TruJerz]

to me, Nas and Pac are the 2 greatest MCs of all time. but all of those guys are good rappers. Jay Z and Eminem dropping albums soon so look out for those!

[crimedog]

ha, didn't even see LL up there. the Mr. Smith album is my favorite album of all time.

i got no use for lil wayne

Edited January 27, 2009 by crimedog

[Deeman]

I don't think Lil Wayne should be on the list. I voted for Nas because he has been doing it consistently for over 15 years.

[Admin]

I know he's not hard core or anything but Will Smith has always had some really good lyrics and he's done it without cursing which is pretty impressive.

[AtLaS]

Where's Big L? That would be my #1 lyricist pretty easily. He made punchlines and wordplay famous.

Nas and Rakim are the best on this list. However, if you mention Nas you have to mention AZ, he's at least as good IMO. Eminem's first 3 official albums were pretty good but still not on their level. Andre 3000 would be next.

Pac was a great songwriter and had the ability to tell stories with emotion like no other, but his lyrics (in terms of multies, punchlines, and wordplay) were not as good. But that's talking as a lyricist only and ignoring the great songs he wrote.

Wayne is so overrated it's a joke. Tha Carter was a great album and he's just gotten worse ever since. People who call him the "best rapper alive" only listen to commercial rap and obviously don't know about underground.

Jay-Z has had a few decent albums (Reasonable doubt was classic, Black album was nice) but he's had a lot of letdowns and hasn't been consistent throughout his career.

There are so many great lyricists not on this list though. Cassidy (his freestyles are unbelievable), JR Writer, Fabolous (his underground work), Big L, 40 Cal., Little Brother, Cam'ron was sick in the late 90s and early 00s, AZ, Common. These are just off the top of my head, lots more if I really thought about it.

[TruJerz]

Where's Big L? That would be my #1 lyricist pretty easily. He made punchlines and wordplay famous.

Nas and Rakim are the best on this list. However, if you mention Nas you have to mention AZ, he's at least as good IMO. Eminem's first 3 official albums were pretty good but still not on their level. Andre 3000 would be next.

Pac was a great songwriter and had the ability to tell stories with emotion like no other, but his lyrics (in terms of multies, punchlines, and wordplay) were not as good. But that's talking as a lyricist only and ignoring the great songs he wrote.

Wayne is so overrated it's a joke. Tha Carter was a great album and he's just gotten worse ever since. People who call him the "best rapper alive" only listen to commercial rap and obviously don't know about underground.

Jay-Z has had a few decent albums (Reasonable doubt was classic, Black album was nice) but he's had a lot of letdowns and hasn't been consistent throughout his career.

There are so many great lyricists not on this list though. Cassidy (his freestyles are unbelievable), JR Writer, Fabolous (his underground work), Big L, 40 Cal., Little Brother, Cam'ron was sick in the late 90s and early 00s, AZ, Common. These are just off the top of my head, lots more if I really thought about it.

damn I agree with everything u said except for Jay Z. I think Jay Z has more than just a few decent albums. He is on everyone's top 10 of all time. Blueprint 1 and 2 were really good. Dynasty was also very good. And I think he is still good. have u heard Jay Z's version of My President is Black?? Classic!

But Big L is the most underrated MC of all time..he is as lyrical as anyone. Big Pun should also be in this discussion. I still think Nas and Pac are 1 and 2 all time

[AtLaS]

damn I agree with everything u said except for Jay Z. I think Jay Z has more than just a few decent albums. He is on everyone's top 10 of all time. Blueprint 1 and 2 were really good. Dynasty was also very good. And I think he is still good. have u heard Jay Z's version of My President is Black?? Classic!

But Big L is the most underrated MC of all time..he is as lyrical as anyone. Big Pun should also be in this discussion. I still think Nas and Pac are 1 and 2 all time

Damn, I completely forgot about Big Pun, he definitely belongs up there. "Beware" is one of my favorite songs of all time, he absolutely kills it.

I just don't agree about Jay-Z, I liked a few of the songs on the Blueprint albums but they just weren't that great overall IMO.

About Pac, yeah he's definitely in my top 5 but if we're talking about lyricism only (what Diesel was asking about in the OP) I just can't put him up there.

[Theeyo]

Don't forget my boy Gucci Mane! LMAO Just kidding

[Deeman]

Don't forget my boy Gucci Mane! LMAO Just kidding

LMAO I busted out laughing reading this one.

[Diesel]

Damn, I completely forgot about Big Pun, he definitely belongs up there. "Beware" is one of my favorite songs of all time, he absolutely kills it.

I just don't agree about Jay-Z, I liked a few of the songs on the Blueprint albums but they just weren't that great overall IMO.

About Pac, yeah he's definitely in my top 5 but if we're talking about lyricism only (what Diesel was asking about in the OP) I just can't put him up there.

Yep, that's just it.. we're talking about lyricism. Hell, somebody may consider that Superman kid a good rapper... but lyrically, he makes me want to throw up.

Pac was not really a lyricist. Neither was Big Pun. Jay-Z is...and so is NAS. Andre 3000 is probably the most underrated Lyricist. When I consider Lyricism, I consider guys who can paint a vivid picture... not just guys who can put together words that rhyme or punchlines. Along those lines, I think some of the best are on the list.

[AtLaS]

Big Pun was not a lyricist? You must not have listened to him much because he was definitely one of the best around. Nobody would agree with you there. I guarantee 90% of rap fans who KNOW about Big Pun and actually listened to him would consider him better lyrically than Jay-Z and Andre, quite easily. Pun was a beast.

He was even lyrical in his hit songs, which is completely different than all the dumbed down lyrics for commercial songs now days.

You came up

Edited January 28, 2009 by AtLaS

[crimedog]

Yep, that's just it.. we're talking about lyricism. Hell, somebody may consider that Superman kid a good rapper... but lyrically, he makes me want to throw up.

Pac was not really a lyricist. Neither was Big Pun. Jay-Z is...and so is NAS. Andre 3000 is probably the most underrated Lyricist. When I consider Lyricism, I consider guys who can paint a vivid picture... not just guys who can put together words that rhyme or punchlines. Along those lines, I think some of the best are on the list.

How was Pac not really a lyricist if the definition is being able to paint a vivid picture?

[tonegully]

"LIFE'S A b*tch AND THEN YOU DIE"

[PlayaPat420]

Dre edged Naw out in this one to me due to some mediocre albums like I AM and God's Son while every real Outkast album (including the double disk... well, not Big Boi's...) has been classics.

Wayne and Jay are both overrated to me being that they both stole other peoples style and lyrics to make their present day swag.

Big and Pac were great but I think Big was more lyrical, while Pac was more moving and powerful.

Rakim was a beast and inspired Nas but he honestly was a little before my time, so I don't get the full appreciation sometime.

Em is good, too, but he put out a lot of bull in my eyes.

I need to give an honorable mention to Scarface who may not have had the best content but his story telling and vividness was and still is unquestionable.

Edited January 30, 2009 by PlayaPat420

[Admin]

Dre edged Naw out in this one to me due to some mediocre albums like I AM and God's Son while every real Outkast album (including the double disk... well, not Big Boi's...) has been classics.

Wayne and Jay are both overrated to me being that they both stole other peoples style and lyrics to make their present day swag.

Big and Pac were great but I think Big was more lyrical, while Pac was more moving and powerful.

Rakim was a beast and inspired Nas but he honestly was a little before my time, so I don't get the full appreciation sometime.

Em is good, too, but he put out a lot of bull in my eyes.

I need to give an honorable mention to Scarface who may not have had the best content but his story telling and vividness was and still is unquestionable.

Hey I'll give some love to Scarface too and I'll also add that he's a really cool guy. I've hung out with him probably a hundred times since he frequents a bar I worked at in college and still go to fairly regularly.

[Diesel]

How was Pac not really a lyricist if the definition is being able to paint a vivid picture?

If you take the hook and the beat away from most of these guys, who will keep you captivated with the words?

Pac is not the strongest lyricist.

Pac had a good message.

Pac could rhyme and did a lot of good party songs.

But a guy who could put it together and make you say.. damn, that was clever... I never got that from Pac.

The guys nowadays are more focused on punchlines...

I mean, that's all Wayne, Eminem and Jay do.

They have clever talk...

They put clever structure to their rhymes.

But Lyrically speaking, can they step into both worlds of being clever and real and doing it by executing rhymes.

That is why you have to give a guy like 3000 credit. I was listening to the words of "what a job this is" and "a life in the day" and I said "this dude here is good enough to make me listen to rap again". He puts you right in the middle of what he's talking about. BIG had that same quality. Rakim who was/is the truth has that same quality.

But guys coming out now has made me stop listening (actually, I grew up)... because they have absolutely no skills. My son listens to some of the weakest garbage ever put out and guys are getting paid for it. Like that superman mess, most everything that comes out of the south, and most of that gansta stuff. Somebody tried to make a case for Big Pun. I went over and listened... I was not impressed. It's that same thing over and over again. Guys not being creative. There are plenty of guys who can rhyme and do it really well, but lyricist is more than just rhyming. If you want the best rhymer of all time, I say Loaded Lux or Fabolous. Those guys rhyme pretty good... and you can put Pun, Wayne, and some of those others in that category. But a lyricist has to be able to take "one mic" and nothing else and make me see what he's talking about.