Kendall Marshall

[Joker]

Joker needs to stop playin around. Please, John Stockton was the man. He was quick all around. It seems like you might be a young cat and not watched a lot of 80's/90's ball. Stop comparing Marshall to Stockton. That's like the people who compared Harold Miner to Michael Jordan.....please, just stop it. I knew I should have stopped reading when you had all those topics on Hold the Mayo...ridiculous. I am with Dolf and coachx 110% on this entire thread. Wow. smh, just wow.

Please explain why you say what you say. This is a void statement to me. Harold Miner to MJ? You trolling son? Like I told Dolfan, I would rather be on the minority than the majority if the majority talks like this.I am probably one of the biggest proponent of the PnR. I have watched tapes from Pistol Pete, Stockton, Magic and all other great decision makers. PG's is the position I know better than any other outside of Center which is my love in my heart. The little puns is whatever man.

[Joker]

To Dolfan and Squd,Stockton wasn't attacking at will. He wasn't Westbrook, Deron, CP3, or Rose. I don't even understand what's so hard to understand about it.

[Admin]

To Dolfan and Squd,

Stockton wasn't attacking at will. He wasn't Westbrook, Deron, CP3, or Rose. I don't even understand what's so hard to understand about it.

And therein lies the problem!

[Joker]

And therein lies the problem!

Look, if your quarrels are about Stockton comparison, then don't read the comparisons. Marshall is his own prospect, I was just giving you someone with similar skill-set with the optimum fit in terms of personnel groupings. I don't even know why we are having this discussion.

[Admin]

Look, if your quarrels are about Stockton comparison, then don't read the comparisons. Marshall is his own prospect, I was just giving you someone with similar skill-set with the optimum fit in terms of personnel groupings. I don't even know why we are having this discussion.

My issue is that this guy doesn't even remotely have a ceiling as high as Stockton and you seem to think he does. Which means you're drastically over inflating his potential or you're drastically disrespecting Stockton. Nbadraft.net has a far more plausible ceiling player for him in Mark Jackson and he'd have to have a hell of a career to meet that possibility.

[EazyRoc]

I'm thinking he will be Andre Miller with a better shot. I think he has the potential to be an assist leader especially on this team. John stockton is definitely stretch. He was one of the best PGs ever. If I were to compare a player to stockton, it would be Paul.

Edited June 12, 2012 by EazyRoc

[Guest]

If we are going to play the comparison game here's my thinking...John Stockton=Bob CousyChris Paul =Isiah ThomasKendall Marshall= Poor Man's Mark Jackson/ Rich man's Marcus Williams...He is somewhere in between those guys.It's hard to predict how a players career will turn out. Depends on how hard he works, if he can stay injury free relatively, how quickly he progresses, and how his game translates into the pro's. I think Marshall will turn out to be much better than Marcus Williams. All I'm saying is that they both played with a lot of talent around them. Williams played with Okafor, Ben Gordon, Charlie V. etc. while Marshall played with Henson, Barnes, Zeller. They had a lot of talent around them so their own personal games could have been hidden or blended in with the team's success. I do think that Marshall does have great court vision, no question about that, in that aspect he is a lot more like a Marck Jackson, even a poor man's Jason Kidd. I'm just saying that he's got a long way to go and has a lot of adjusting to do for the pro game IMO.

[Joker]

My issue is that this guy doesn't even remotely have a ceiling as high as Stockton and you seem to think he does. Which means you're drastically over inflating his potential or you're drastically disrespecting Stockton.Nbadraft.net has a far more plausible ceiling player for him in Mark Jackson and he'd have to have a hell of a career to meet that possibility.

How is he like Mark Jackson? Seriously, you are talking but making no talking points. Explain what you think Marshall is? Comparison aside. I want to hear this because you have taking a stance I want to see why.

[Joker]

I'm thinking he will be Andre Miller with a better shot. I think he has the potential to be an assist leader especially on this team. John stockton is definitely stretch. He was one of the best PGs ever. If I were to compare a player to stockton, it would be Paul.

What makes Stockton that much better than Andre Miller. Miller never had an elite or even good PnR PF or C. He always had to create without it. Nothing is wrong with Andre Miller. I see him as the same type as Miller, Stockton, Calderon, and Rubio. Those flawed playmaking PG's. Calderon is worse because he is not a quick decision maker like the others.LOL, CP3 to Stockton. Did you guys ever watch Stockton play? The foolishness in this thread. Stockton is now CP3. LOL. Even Utah fans were saying Deron was much better than Stockton before he was traded. Stockton is a product of having an elite PnR PF like Malone is a product of having an elite PnR PG.

[Admin]

How is he like Mark Jackson? Seriously, you are talking but making no talking points. Explain what you think Marshall is? Comparison aside. I want to hear this because you have taking a stance I want to see why.

First off they have very similar builds and a similar game... I also like the Andre Miller & Marcus Williams references above as well. He's a guy who is very limited with his ability to create his own shot and knock it down but he should be able to use his size well in the paint against smaller PGs. He's also a very good distributor of the ball and that's something that Jackson and Miller made great careers out of while not having the ability to be big time scorers.The bottom line is that I like Marshall and I'd be happy to see the Hawks draft him, very happy actually, but I just can't help but go WTF when you compare him to John Stockton.

Not surprisingly, there was no mention of assists or steals – Stockton holds the NBA career records for both – or the 10 All-Star Game appearances he made, or the two Olympic gold medals he won. He sat with his family through the highlight and tribute video that preceded his speech with little emotion. For Stockton, the night was about gratitude.

If Marshall is drafted by the Hawks and accomplishes even half of what Stockton did then I will be thrilled!

[Joker]

First off they have very similar builds and a similar game... I also like the Andre Miller & Marcus Williams references above as well. He's a guy who is very limited with his ability to create his own shot and knock it down but he should be able to use his size well in the paint against smaller PGs. He's also a very good distributor of the ball and that's something that Jackson and Miller made great careers out of while not having the ability to be big time scorers.The bottom line is that I like Marshall and I'd be happy to see the Hawks draft him, very happy actually, but I just can't help but go WTF when you compare him to John Stockton.If Marshall is drafted by the Hawks and accomplishes even half of what Stockton did then I will be thrilled!

In the PG era without hand checking, it's possible. The main thing you have to consider is our pace will be much higher since Marshall will actual motivate guys to run since his vision is full court.Mark Jackson doesn't have a similar game to Marshall due to his ability in transition. That's a major difference. That's the difference between Rondo and Nash in terms of running an offense. For a PG, that's a major difference.I agree with the Miller/Williams comparisons. Williams could have been so much better if he had any type of work ethic. I even used Williams as a comparison.The difference between Miller and Stockton is truly personnel. Miller would be been a much better PG with Malone than with Melo or Iggy. It's not like Miller wasn't like top 10-15 PG for most of his career. Miller was one PG I loved. I never seen a PG who could run every single pace outside of him and Stock. I am still not sold on Rubio in that regard. I think Rubio is like a mix of Pistol Pete and Nash with Kidd's defense.

[Admin]

In the PG era without hand checking, it's possible. The main thing you have to consider is our pace will be much higher since Marshall will actual motivate guys to run since his vision is full court.

Mark Jackson doesn't have a similar game to Marshall due to his ability in transition. That's a major difference. That's the difference between Rondo and Nash in terms of running an offense. For a PG, that's a major difference.

I agree with the Miller/Williams comparisons. Williams could have been so much better if he had any type of work ethic. I even used Williams as a comparison.

The difference between Miller and Stockton is truly personnel. Miller would be been a much better PG with Malone than with Melo or Iggy. It's not like Miller wasn't like top 10-15 PG for most of his career. Miller was one PG I loved. I never seen a PG who could run every single pace outside of him and Stock. I am still not sold on Rubio in that regard. I think Rubio is like a mix of Pistol Pete and Nash with Kidd's defense.

We're not going to play uptempo unless we bring in an uptempo coach and a PG that the vets will respect. It would probably take a guy like Nash to make that happen as there's no way that Smith and JJ are giving the ball up to a rookie PG and letting him set the pace.

None of us know how Mark Jackson would play in an uptempo offense since he spent his best years playing in a slow, defensive oriented offense in NY. My guess is that he would have been just fine playing uptempo.

The differences between Miller and Stockton are huge... and the biggest is that Stockton was actually a very good outside shooter while Miller has been one of the worst distance shooters among PGs since he's been in the league. Stockton was also MUCH quicker, while Miller is MUCH more physical.

As far as comparisons go, the experts say:

Best Case: Andre Miller

Worst Case: Jose Calderon

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1xaaWf7sc

http://www.draftexpress.com

NBA Comparison: Mark Jackson

http://nbadraft.net/players/kendall-marshall

[Joker]

We're not going to play uptempo unless we bring in an uptempo coach and a PG that the vets will respect. It would probably take a guy like Nash to make that happen as there's no way that Smith and JJ are giving the ball up to a rookie PG and letting him set the pace.None of us know how Mark Jackson would play in an uptempo offense since he spent his best years playing in a slow, defensive oriented offense in NY. My guess is that he would have been just fine playing uptempo.The differences between Miller and Stockton are huge... and the biggest is that Stockton was actually a very good outside shooter while Miller has been one of the worst distance shooters among PGs since he's been in the league. Stockton was also MUCH quicker, while Miller is MUCH more physical.As far as comparisons go, the experts say:

I really don't consider them experts at all but that's besides the point.LD wants to run but you can't run when the only thing that is going to happen is a turnover prone team. Woody wanted to run. You really can't run in the NBA without a PG with the PG skills to do so. You can cause TO's and run like OKC but even they don't run like that. You think if we landed Nash, we wouldn't be running?Mark didn't like running that style of offense. He was more of a thinker like Rondo. He would rather see everything set up while guys like Marshall want to score as quick as possible. They want to get you before you are ready. Plus Jackson was a much better shooter than Marshall.Stockton was a worse shooter in his first three years than Miller. Stockton was able to improve and focus on shooting because teams would sit on his PnR like he was Rondo. They really weren't in the same situation. It's known that guys improve a lot more in the max situation for them. Stock wasn't much quicker. They had similar quickness. Stock had a better first step but that was it. Both were very physical players. They just used it differently.

[Joker]

Last time we had a PG like Marshall skill-set wise, it was Lenny Wilkens.

[Admin]

I really don't consider them experts at all but that's besides the point.

LD wants to run but you can't run when the only thing that is going to happen is a turnover prone team. Woody wanted to run. You really can't run in the NBA without a PG with the PG skills to do so. You can cause TO's and run like OKC but even they don't run like that. You think if we landed Nash, we wouldn't be running?

Mark didn't like running that style of offense. He was more of a thinker like Rondo. He would rather see everything set up while guys like Marshall want to score as quick as possible. They want to get you before you are ready. Plus Jackson was a much better shooter than Marshall.

Stockton was a worse shooter in his first three years than Miller. Stockton was able to improve and focus on shooting because teams would sit on his PnR like he was Rondo. They really weren't in the same situation. It's known that guys improve a lot more in the max situation for them. Stock wasn't much quicker. They had similar quickness. Stock had a better first step but that was it. Both were very physical players. They just used it differently.

I don't think that LD really wants to run and we don't have the personnel for it anyway. Neither Joe nor Josh want to run up and down the court on a regular basis... hell Josh doesn't even do it half the time on defense either.

Think what you will but Teague does a pretty good job of protecting the ball and he's never shown himself to be turnover prone. His assist to turnover ratio last year of 2.5 to 1 puts him right there with Ty Lawson, Mike Conley, Andre Miller, Raymond Felton, Kyle Lowry, Jameer Nelson, etc.

Prove that Mark Jackson didn't like running that style of offense. Otherwise that's a baseless statement.

Say what now? Miller's career fg% is .458 and by far his best season was .492. Stockton's career fg% is .515 and his best season was .574, his 4th year in the league.

Year by year:

1st year

Stockton .471

Miller .449

2nd year

Stockton .489

Miller .452

3rd year

Stockton .499

Miller .454

Stockton was MUCH quicker than Miller and most PGs. Miller is arguably the strongest and most physical PG of the last 20-30 years. Stockton was NEVER a physical PG. Seriously please stop with the misinformation about Stockton as you really are misrepresenting the facts to try and make your point.

[Joker]

I don't think that LD really wants to run and we don't have the personnel for it anyway. Neither Joe nor Josh want to run up and down the court on a regular basis... hell Josh doesn't even do it half the time on defense either.

Think what you will but Teague does a pretty good job of protecting the ball and he's never shown himself to be turnover prone. His assist to turnover ratio last year of 2.5 to 1 puts him right there with Ty Lawson, Mike Conley, Andre Miller, Raymond Felton, Kyle Lowry, Jameer Nelson, etc.

Prove that Mark Jackson didn't like running that style of offense. Otherwise that's a baseless statement.

Say what now? Miller's career fg% is .458 and by far his best season was .492. Stockton's career fg% is .515 and his best season was .574, his 4th year in the league.

Year by year:

1st year

Stockton .471

Miller .449

2nd year

Stockton .489

Miller .452

3rd year

Stockton .499

Miller .454

Stockton was MUCH quicker than Miller and most PGs. Miller is arguably the strongest and most physical PG of the last 20-30 years. Stockton was NEVER a physical PG. Seriously please stop with the misinformation about Stockton as you really are misrepresenting the facts to try and make your point.

Let's be truthful. In order to get Marshall, Josh has to be traded. He's the only willing asset that can get us multiple picks.

Teague doesn't play outside of himself nor is a risk taker. Nothing wrong with that. If you can't run an offense, pass the ball, create for others, or run a PnR that isn't Jamal like which is slash and making no reads, I don't the purpose of you starting at PG, especially with a personnel grouping like this. Maybe LAL or Orlando but not Atl.

His style of play. If he wanted to run, he would run more. He had full control of the offense. He didn't look to coach for every call like Jeff does. He call the games like a smart game managing QB. Look at his pace. I find it hard for you to say that when his whole career is the proof.

I didn't say nothing about fg%. That not even something to talk about, especially considering the personnel groupings were completely different.

The differences between Miller and Stockton are huge... and the biggest is that Stockton was actually a very good outside shooter while Miller has been one of the worst distance shooters among PGs since he's been in the league. Stockton was also MUCH quicker, while Miller is MUCH more physical.

Miller: .204 .266 .253

Stockton: .182 .132 .179

Stockton was physical and some would say very dirty. Miller like more likely to post you up and use his body more because he was bigger and stronger as well more skilled in the post. They aren't the same type of players. He wasn't much quicker. You prove it or it's a baseless statement.

[Admin]

I didn't say nothing about fg%. That not even something to talk about, especially considering the personnel groupings were completely different.

Stockton was physical and some would say very dirty. Miller like more likely to post you up and use his body more because he was bigger and stronger as well more skilled in the post. They aren't the same type of players. He wasn't much quicker. You prove it or it's a baseless statement.

You realize there is a difference between outside shooter and 3pt shooter, right? And you realize that fg% encompasses 3pt shooting as well, right? And you realize that Stockton was a guy who scored the majority of his points on jumpshots, right? So if A=B and B=C then A must equal C, right?

Miller is a guy who backs his man down in the post and scores a ton of points there. Stockton might have been dirty but that doesn't make him a physical player. I don't need to prove something that anyone with common sense knows, Stockton was a quick PG and Miller wasn't / isn't / never will be a quick PG.

[Joker]

You realize there is a difference between outside shooter and 3pt shooter, right? And you realize that fg% encompasses 3pt shooting as well, right? And you realize that Stockton was a guy who scored the majority of his points on jumpshots, right? So if A=B and B=C then A must equal C, right?Miller is a guy who backs his man down in the post and scores a ton of points there. Stockton might have been dirty but that doesn't make him a physical player. I don't need to prove something that anyone with common sense knows, Stockton was a quick PG and Miller wasn't / isn't / never will be a quick PG.

That was in reference to your statement.Miller scores in numerous ways. Jumpshot, post ups, off PnR, etc. He mainly lives within 20ft.Stockton could to but not so much with post ups and he had more range over his career which I never disagreed with. My point was you can improve in the right situation i.e. Stockton.http://www.nbapostup.com/andre-miller-scouting-report-2011Stockton was quick, but you said much quicker is where I disagreed.

[coachx]

Joker, I mean this with total respect.Your profile states you became a Hawks fan in 1994. I'm assuming that is when you also became a basketball fan.How old was John Stockton in 1994 ? He was 32 years old.So you basically missed the 1st 10 years of Stockton's career when he was at his physical peak. How are you qualified to speak on something you never even saw ?

[Joker]

Joker, I mean this with total respect.Your profile states you became a Hawks fan in 1994. I'm assuming that is when you also became a basketball fan.How old was John Stockton in 1994 ? He was 32 years old.So you basically missed the 1st 10 years of Stockton's career when he was at his physical peak. How are you qualified to speak on something you never even saw ?

Just a Hawks fan in 1994 and it really holds no credence in this convo either. You either know what you are talking about or you don't. Saying that age matters like saying your average 80 year old is smarter than Bill Gates.