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[AHF]

Let's not forget that Ratliff was an NBA All-Star who made two All-NBA Defensive teams and led the league in blocks per game 3 times in his career. He wasn't a scrub.

For Noel, I saw nothing indicating he was lazy or had a bad attitude. For Kentucky last season, there was a lot of disfunction but Noel held that team together. When he went down, Kentucky went from a solid NCAA team to an NIT squad and that was a combination of his play and his attitude. I don't have character reservations on him. The main knocks are his lean frame and his raw offense.

I would love for the Hawks to land him but I don't think he will ever be in Deke's territory.

[coachx]

In comparison to how talented Noel is, you are comparing him to a scrub. Ratliff is an average center, he is someone you look at and say, I would take him over Zaza. He is not someone you compare to the #1 pick in a draft that has excellent defensive tools and is talented to boot.

Obviously too young to have seen him at his peak.

[MaceCase]

Noel needs to put on at least forty pounds of muscle if he's still at 206.

You have to realize that he blew out his knee in a non-contact situation by just jumping at only 215-220lbs. You gotta wonder what would be the effect on his knees if he threw on that kind of extra weight.

[coachx]

Do you know what 5% bodyfat looks like? I guarantee you he is not close to 5% bodyfat.

5% body fat is super lean.Not sure what your insinuating.Look how skinny Jamal Franklin looks.........he has more body fat then Noel.

[Admin]

You have to realize that he blew out his knee in a non-contact situation by just jumping at only 215-220lbs. You gotta wonder what would be the effect on his knees if he threw on that kind of extra weight.

Sounds like he needs a good strength and conditioning program to build up the supporting muscles around his knees.

[coachx]

Yeah I've heard that ridiculous comparison to Wade on here but nowhere else. Nbadraft.net compares him to Tony Allen. I know Porter is a safe pick but his ceiling is higher than Oladipo IMO

Ya.....anyone who saw Wade at Marquette would never say that. They are only comparable in physical stature and athletic ability. They are nothing a like in skill set or style of play. Wade was 10x more aggressive on offense.

[Admin]

5% body fat is super lean.Not sure what your insinuating.Look how skinny Jamal Franklin looks.........he has more body fat then Noel.

I think he was saying that Noel is more than 5%. I have no reason to doubt Dx when they have him at 4.2%, especially not since he's 7' and 206 lbs.

Ya.....anyone who saw Wade at Marquette would never say that. They are only comparable in physical stature and athletic ability. They are nothing a like in skill set or style of play. Wade was 10x more aggressive on offense.

Yep Wade was a guy who put his team on his back and thrived like that. Oladipo seems content to just fit in on his team.

[NBASupes]

Let's not forget that Ratliff was an NBA All-Star who made two All-NBA Defensive teams and led the league in blocks per game 3 times in his career. He wasn't a scrub.

For Noel, I saw nothing indicating he was lazy or had a bad attitude. For Kentucky last season, there was a lot of disfunction but Noel held that team together. When he went down, Kentucky went from a solid NCAA team to an NIT squad and that was a combination of his play and his attitude. I don't have character reservations on him. The main knocks are his lean frame and his raw offense.

I would love for the Hawks to land him but I don't think he will ever be in Deke's territory.

He was average at best. You can try to overrate him but I seen him play a lot of games. He was average. Noel will be much better. He is much more talented and gifted than Ratliff.

Noel can be a yearly DPOY candidate. Ratliff was NEVER that. Like I said, Noel's potential is more comparable to Deke in my opinion and it's final. Nothing else to discuss.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Leadership

[NBASupes]

Obviously too young to have seen him at his peak.

I seen him in his peak, you need to quit with the silly insults. If I can get reprimanded for it, you should too.

[Admin]

Automatic message This topic has been moved from "HomeCourt" to "NBA Draft Talk".

[WakaFlocka]

You have to realize that he blew out his knee in a non-contact situation by just jumping at only 215-220lbs. You gotta wonder what would be the effect on his knees if he threw on that kind of extra weight.

Derrick Rose blew out his knee in a non-contact situation and I haven't seen anyone questioning his body. Do you think the fact that he's been bulking up will negatively affect his knees?

Clearly Rose and Noel have very, very different body types, but shit happens and anyone can land wrong at any time/suffer a freak injury.

You said that he'd be pushing 220 and since he measured 206 at the combine that's roughly 15 lbs. And for a guy who is 4.2% body fat that is a HUGE difference in weight.

Someone with a better understanding of body fat % to weight would have to do the calculations but I think that adding 5-10 more lbs in 4 months is a lot for a guy who is so extremely lean. It would be different if he were 7-9% body fat but I just don't see him adding that much good weight in that amount of time.

It seems like you're not totally understanding what I'm saying...

UK and ESPN both listed Noel at 228lbs. Obviously that's quite an overstatement, but there are other sites that listed him at 215lbs and I think that's a pretty accurate playing weight for him at UK prior to the injury.

I did NOT say that Noel has lost ~15lbs since he suffered the injury. I said that assuming he was roughly 215lbs at the time of the injury, I don't think it's a stretch to think he could've added a solid 5lbs over the past ~4 months (if healthy), thus putting him around 220lbs right now going into the draft instead of the 206 number. If he was ~220lbs right now, would there be as many question about his weight/body? No.

My point is simply that I feel all the people criticizing his "current" weight of 206lbs aren't looking at the whole picture and understanding that the kid would definitely weigh more if he'd been healthy over the last 4+ months instead of recovering from an ACL injury.

Edited June 27, 2013 by WakaFlocka

[DJlaysitup]

Ya.....anyone who saw Wade at Marquette would never say that. They are only comparable in physical stature and athletic ability. They are nothing a like in skill set or style of play. Wade was 10x more aggressive on offense.

Wade was a stunning talent coming out of Marquette - he took his team to the final four in almost Bird-like fashion. The only question was - could he play SG instead of forward. He proved that quickly.

Guys like Wade don't come along often.

[MaceCase]

Derrick Rose blew out his knee in a non-contact situation and I haven't seen anyone questioning his body. Do you think the fact that he's been bulking up will negatively affect his knees?

Clearly Rose and Noel have very, very different body types, but shit happens and anyone can land wrong at any time/suffer a freak injury.

You forget that Rose had a myriad of injuries to his lower body already before his knee finally gave out. He missed a good chunk of the season due to back, toe, groin, foot and ankle injuries and this isn't even factoring the massive amount of wear and tear he's received being the only scoring option for the Bulls while playing 37 minutes a night over an NBA season plus deep into the post season and participating in the World Championships as well over a summer. Athletes and people in general often create other injuries by overcompensating but I have no idea what Noel was already hampered with only 24 games into his college career.

[DJlaysitup]

My point is simply that I feel all the people criticizing his "current" weight of 206lbs aren't looking at the whole picture and understanding that the kid would definitely weigh more if he'd been healthy over the last 4+ months instead of recovering from an ACL injury.

The other side of the coin is though - if he has reverted to 206 lbs after being up to 215/220 - is maybe 210 his natural weight? - and if so - is it realistic that he will ever go much beyond 220?

Doesn't mean he still won't be an impact player - heck - Smoove is much more effective at 225 than he was at 240.

215/220 would tend to shut him out of the center position in the NBA though - and maybe even the PF position unless he can play as a hybrid-type. He might be better off being a SF jumping jack.

Edited June 27, 2013 by DJlaysitup

[Admin]

You forget that Rose had a myriad of injuries to his lower body already before his knee finally gave out. He missed a good chunk of the season due to back, toe, groin, foot and ankle injuries and this isn't even factoring the massive amount of wear and tear he's received being the only scoring option for the Bulls while playing 37 minutes a night over an NBA season plus deep into the post season and participating in the World Championships as well over a summer. Athletes and people in general often create other injuries by overcompensating but I have no idea what Noel was already hampered with only 24 games into his college career.

At the time when he blew his knee out it was widely reported that he did it because he had been compensating for the bad ankle that he had and it caused him to land awkwardly. I would definitely agree that it was more about his myriad other injuries than anything else that caused the knee to blow up.

The other side of the coin is though - if he has reverted to 206 lbs after being up to 215/220 - is maybe 210 his natural weight? - and if so - is it realistic that he will ever go much beyond 220?

Doesn't mean he still won't be an impact player - heck - Smoove is much more effective at 225 than he was at 240.

215/220 would tend to shut him out of the center position in the NBA though - and maybe even the PF position unless he can play as a hybrid-type. He might be better off being a SF jumping jack.

Larry Sanders is only 221 and built very similarly so I would think that if Noel can get close to 220 then he will be fine.

[Guest Walter]

Anyone who works out and plays basketball every day who all of a sudden gets hurt and has to sit is going to put on weight, that's just common sense as he's not going to burn as many calories and is probably going to eat more as well with all of the down time. It may only be a pound or two, which would only translate to .1 % body fat or so, but there's no way that he goes sedentary and loses weight. If he were a huge guy with a lot of muscle then yes I could see him losing muscle and losing weight but he's a bean pole so he doesn't have much muscle to lose.

Look. This is what I do. I'm a PT. I rehab athletes. Often HS athletes. The atrophy that occurs, particularly in the affected leg is remarkable (lbs worth) and it's clear NN doesn't have the metabolism to put on BF to "compensate". IF HE DID he would have started off at 1% BF give he ended up at 4-5%.Please don't argue with someone who does this for a living. PLEASE.Examplehttp://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=115362581&page=16 lbs lost in 3 wks. Will likely lose 10 overall or at least this should be expected for a guy like Noel. He won't have the same muscle mass in that LE for at least 18 months. THAT is how devastating this injury, sx, and rehab are. People come back earlier but they don't have the quad mass for some time if ever. The compensate, they use the other leg more, it may not be noticeable, but many never regain the mass (at Noel's age I think he will but it takes longer than people think).The "nerlens doesn't have muscle to lose" argument is insultingly stupid. Noel at a frosh playing wt 215 is skinny enough. I don't get the ignorance or motive behind insisting he GAINED wt immediately after tearing his ACL. BTW: for the non-athlete outcome studies at 2 yrs suggest no subjective quality of life difference with or without ACL surgery. It's a difficult sx and rehab for an outcome that may not yield a different outcome for most people.W

[Admin]

Look. This is what I do. I'm a PT. I rehab athletes. Often HS athletes. The atrophy that occurs, particularly in the affected leg is remarkable (lbs worth) and it's clear NN doesn't have the metabolism to put on BF to "compensate". IF HE DID he would have started off at 1% BF give he ended up at 4-5%.Please don't argue with someone who does this for a living. PLEASE.Examplehttp://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=115362581&page=16 lbs lost in 3 wks. Will likely lose 10 overall or at least this should be expected for a guy like Noel. He won't have the same muscle mass in that LE for at least 18 months. THAT is how devastating this injury, sx, and rehab are. People come back earlier but they don't have the quad mass for some time if ever. The compensate, they use the other leg more, it may not be noticeable, but many never regain the mass (at Noel's age I think he will but it takes longer than people think).The "nerlens doesn't have muscle to lose" argument is insultingly stupid. Noel at a frosh playing wt 215 is skinny enough. I don't get the ignorance or motive behind insisting he GAINED wt immediately after tearing his ACL.BTW: for the non-athlete outcome studies at 2 yrs suggest no subjective quality of life difference with or without ACL surgery. It's a difficult sx and rehab for an outcome that may not yield a different outcome for most people.W

Hey, good for you. I'm a certified personal trainer who's been through extensive training and done this for almost a decade now as a side job. That doesn't make my opinion right or yours wrong. But you're entitled to your own opinion.