Dennis "The Menace" Shroeder

[capstone21]

I normally don't watch summer league but I am intrigued to see these guys play since they didn't play college

[kurupt]

Some insight into Dennis Schröder from Germany:

1. He is improving by the day. His 3pt% went up from 25%, to 30% to 40% over the last two years and he shot quite a lot of threes (more than 3 per game in 25 mpg). He is no Steph Curry and never will be, but he is able to knock down open 3's which some elite PGs in the NBA cannot (Westbrook, Rondo, Wall for example).

He has a good touch, which not only means he will get better as a ranged shooter, but will also develope his floater and his mid-range game more. Finishing at and around the rim will be a problem, but thats to be expected by every rookie PG in his first year, whose name isn´t Rose. Look at Westbrook, Wall, Walker or Teague all shooting hardly 40% in their first season. As he gets used to playing in the NBA and also gets stronger, this will be less of an issue.

2. He made the leap from basically not playing (because the coach wouldn´t let him, despite dominating the lower-league competition at will) in 2011/12 to being the starting PG and most important player with the most minutes in 2012/13. Now, the German league isn´t the NBA, but it is better than NCAA level and he played against veterans there. Not only holding his own but carrying his team, becoming the youngest German ever All-Star. It doesn´t look like he is anywhere near his ceiling yet.

3. At the Nike Hoop Summit he showed that he is not only lightning-quick compared to European competition, but also way too quick for the most athletic and promising talents from all over the world and the US. The two US PGs defending him fouled out of the game. He dominated and impressed in every pratice and the actual game, in which he looked like a man amongst boys in terms of understanding and controlling the flow and speed of the game. Again, he is a lot more experienced playing against men than any other 19-year old in this draft.

4. He is very good out of the pick&roll and an excelles as the passing man in alley-hoop plays. The NBA athletes and playstyle will really bring out the best in him in that regard. European basketball is slow, very organized and not very athletic which is basically the worst environment for such a young player - and he still left his mark.

Overall his quickness and unbelievable fleet feet/lateral movement are assets that will translate very well to the NBA. Even if he doesn´t improve anything else, he will be a bigger version of Darren Collison or Norris Cole, which is good value for a 17th pick. And if he improves, which I strongly believe if he gets some playing time to adjust to the NBA, he will be a lot better.

If anyone has any questions about him, feel free to ask.

P.S.: I am not a homer, not really an avid fan of the basketball teams here, but I played against a lot of the German players from this city when I was young (Dennis is too young, though) and have been watching the two teams (1st and 3rd division (=farm team)) for about 15 years.

[Admin]

Great info and thank you for passing it on. I'm very excited about this kid!

[mattlanta]

kurupt, thank you for the insight on Schröder. Can you tell us more about his defense and how it is overseas? I know he's got a pretty long wingspan, so he can really disrupt the opposing point guards, but since Coach Bud says he's going to focus on a defensive minded team, I'd like to learn more about how he fared against the better guards over there at Germany.

[Hairydawgz]

I like his game a lot, but hoping the Dennis the menace nickname does not stick. We can be more creative than that.

How about the "Shredder"?!

[lethalweapon3]

How about the "Shredder"?!

Or...

~lw3

[ATLHawks3]

Or...

~lw3

What's that.

[ATLHawks3]

Wait, Nevermind.

[kurupt]

kurupt, thank you for the insight on Schröder. Can you tell us more about his defense and how it is overseas? I know he's got a pretty long wingspan, so he can really disrupt the opposing point guards, but since Coach Bud says he's going to focus on a defensive minded team, I'd like to learn more about how he fared against the better guards over there at Germany.

First something about the general play over here in Europe/Germany: The game is a lot slower and more organized, a lot of half-court offense, a lot of set-plays and pick&rolls. This is in part due to the less athletic/talented players, but most of it is the 3-pt line being a bit shorter, which equals less room to guard and zone defenses being allowed/no 3-second rule on defense. That means that big men are always guarding the basket and defenses collapse much quicker than in the NBA (less room to cover and you don´t have to keep out of the lane when leaving your man). So there is a big emphasis on team defense and p&r defense, while good 1on1 defense is more of a bonus.

The best thing about Dennis ist that he really is competetive. We say that about most athletes, but it really applies to him. He enjoys playing defense and he really sees it as a personal challenge. He doesn´t just want to "do his job" defensively, he wants to dominate his opponent and force him into making bad plays. This video is really good and covers his defense after the 7:20 minute mark.

He moves very well and has really quick feet, allowing him to go over screens a lot of times without losing his man. He stays in front of his man or at least very close. He is able to slide in every direction at high speed while still being able to keep his arms up/out or poke at the ball, which can disrupt the ball handler quite a lot. Since he can recover well, he is also able to gamble a little bit and pressure his man over the whole court, because he can usually recover in time even if his man gets past him once.

Now, NBA players will be better than the competition he faced here in Germany, but I think the dedication and talent is there. Physical guards that can post up will be a big challenge since he just isn´t very strong yet. That wasn´t an issue over here in Germany because a) most PGs aren´t as athletic as in the NBA and b) its much harder to isolate matchups.

I think coming over from Europe will help him in terms of understanding the new defense concepts he will have to learn. He already had two professional coaches along with his "mentor" and coach of the farm team in the 3rd division and played well defensively for all of them. Defensively he is a lot like a taller version of Noris Cole in Miami, I think.

[Admin]

Kurupt thanks for the info on the game over there and on Dennis. I really feel like we've gotten a steal with this guy and I'm embarrassed that I never even thought about us picking him (or any PG) in this draft.

[NBASupes]

First something about the general play over here in Europe/Germany: The game is a lot slower and more organized, a lot of half-court offense, a lot of set-plays and pick&rolls. This is in part due to the less athletic/talented players, but most of it is the 3-pt line being a bit shorter, which equals less room to guard and zone defenses being allowed/no 3-second rule on defense. That means that big men are always guarding the basket and defenses collapse much quicker than in the NBA (less room to cover and you don´t have to keep out of the lane when leaving your man). So there is a big emphasis on team defense and p&r defense, while good 1on1 defense is more of a bonus.

The best thing about Dennis ist that he really is competetive. We say that about most athletes, but it really applies to him. He enjoys playing defense and he really sees it as a personal challenge. He doesn´t just want to "do his job" defensively, he wants to dominate his opponent and force him into making bad plays. This video is really good and covers his defense after the 7:20 minute mark.

He moves very well and has really quick feet, allowing him to go over screens a lot of times without losing his man. He stays in front of his man or at least very close. He is able to slide in every direction at high speed while still being able to keep his arms up/out or poke at the ball, which can disrupt the ball handler quite a lot. Since he can recover well, he is also able to gamble a little bit and pressure his man over the whole court, because he can usually recover in time even if his man gets past him once.

Now, NBA players will be better than the competition he faced here in Germany, but I think the dedication and talent is there. Physical guards that can post up will be a big challenge since he just isn´t very strong yet. That wasn´t an issue over here in Germany because a) most PGs aren´t as athletic as in the NBA and b) its much harder to isolate matchups.

I think coming over from Europe will help him in terms of understanding the new defense concepts he will have to learn. He already had two professional coaches along with his "mentor" and coach of the farm team in the 3rd division and played well defensively for all of them. Defensively he is a lot like a taller version of Noris Cole in Miami, I think.

I think he should be our starting PG. Jeff Teague is what we call in the States, a combo guard. He has more SG skills than PG skills but his size is of a PG.

Kurupt thanks for the info on the game over there and on Dennis. I really feel like we've gotten a steal with this guy and I'm embarrassed that I never even thought about us picking him (or any PG) in this draft.

We kinda went all in for CP3 so we didn't look at any PG's.

[DJlaysitup]

The "change of speed trick" works in slow basketball, rugby sometimes and occasionally in soccer...but it ain't gonna work in the NBA.

They will see that twice and then cut you off. Lets face it - the kid looks really fast.against the German competition. As a rule - top level German athletes lift really heavy weights and throw heavy things really far (and go really fast on sleds, skates, and skiiis in winter). But with the exception of Dirk - they suck at basketball.

Edited July 2, 2013 by DJlaysitup

[CrazyEye]

The "change of speed trick" works in slow basketball, rugby sometimes and occasionally in soccer...but it ain't gonna work in the NBA.

They will see that twice and then cut you off. Lets face it - the kid looks really fast.against the German competition. As a rule - top level German athletes lift really heavy weights and throw heavy things really far (and go really fast on sleds, skates, and skiiis in winter). But with the exception of Dirk - they suck at basketball.

You are right, germany have few decent Basketballer especially compared to the USA. But the german leagues, have more quality then college matches since there are playing grown men who mostly was stars at there Colleges when there was young and less skilled basketballer. Yes we don't have the NBA superstar talent on the league, but mostly they aren't much player who would impact the NBA right away in colleges and there are plenty of player who are to weak to play pro Ball (in germany top division) on every College team and even in the top college it is rare that more then 4-6 player with the talent to make it there are on the roster.

But yes BBL is a big step to the NBA, but it is also a bigger step from college ;)

Also Schröder wasn't the best here in germany, but you should consider him as a projekt he develops as quick as he explode with his first step in the last seasons - and if he continue to do so he would be a very good pick. If you expect a complete basketballer, you should have picked earlier in this draft cause i believe like the most avaible players at there spot Schröder needs time to adjust to the NBA and work on his game to play in the NBA. I wouldn't expect much offensive responbility right away, i believe in the beginning he is mostly there to contribute the ball and give energy from the bench in the defense.

[Admin]

I love it we now have some new members who've actually seen Dennis play and knows about his game and the league over in Germany.Welcome to Hawksquawk!

[TheFuzz]

Kurupt/CrazyEye, what do you guys think of Schröder's attitude? I remember hearing that there might have been some attitude problems with him but he seems to interview pretty well.

[CrazyEye]

Kurupt/CrazyEye, what do you guys think of Schröder's attitude? I remember hearing that there might have been some attitude problems with him but he seems to interview pretty well.

hard to tell, i didn't know him personally and depending on interview i would come to the same conclusion like you(most likely i know some more of them). Also i should note, that most interview come from the past year where a lot of people said he made an positive attitude change as well.

But there where a couple of incidents, in his past:

- he got suspended for one game for the U18 Nationalteam together with another player, through disciplinary reasons. (2 years ago)

- he got suspended for one game, middle of last season for coming late or missing a training. Another team mate said(who left the team in an heated argument) that he was just one times 5 minute to late, while the "US Pro's" did it regulary without consequences. Rumors Dennis said that he was sometimes disrespectful to the athletic trainer of the club.

- one thing which doesn't go to the media that much, that he also get benched for the last game of the season and doesn't wanted to play when the coach wanted to sub in for the last minutes. Schröder said he was cold, and doesn't wanted to risk an injury prior the draft for a game which was decided(an even when it wasn't decided win or loss wouldn't make a difference). The reason that he got benched, was a missed training again(the unit where you prepare for the enxt opponent) also the coach said that he wanted to give player who might stay or didn't have the chanche to presentate in prior games a chanche. I believe he also said, that Dennis was often in his mind in america this week.(not sure if this means that he just was unconcentratet in training or wanted to prepare for workout at NBA teams etc.)

- On the court: Some people don't like his expression on the court, who seems to be "arrogant". But i don't give much on it, since lot of the people saying that also meant that Kevin Hamilton an ex player of us look careless and not aggressive enough - and he was maybe the strongest defender on this team and got a lot rebounds a s a guard. Maybe he have sometimes troubles to focus during a game, since he made more "simple" errors then usual player - but on the other hand he is very clutch and look for responsibility in the endgame.

So yes there are still reasons for doubts. But he get discribed as a hard worker with the poise to win from nearly everyone, and i doubt he would be here if he wasn't(especially since he started pretty late with basketball)

[CrazyEye]

PS: how i can edit the post here.

About the season ender, the coach was quite relax and didn't make a big deal out of it.

[Guest]

PS: how i can edit the post here.

About the season ender, the coach was quite relax and didn't make a big deal out of it.

I think there is a 5 minute time limit to edit your post.

[Admin]

PS: how i can edit the post here.

About the season ender, the coach was quite relax and didn't make a big deal out of it.

You can edit posts but there is a time limit of 10 minutes.

I think there is a 5 minute time limit to edit your post.

It's 10 minutes now for regular members and it's unlimited for supporters.

[DJlaysitup]

Dennis Schröder has all the "hints" of a player who will pout when he gets punked in the NBA by stronger players. We used to call these guys "prima donnas". Teague had a bit of that in him - but he seems to be working it out.

Anybody who thinks this kid is our PG next year is absolutely nuts.

JMHO.