Are we just bad negotiators?


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I have to agree with what's been said about the perceived value of a big man like Ibaka.  I also have to add though that timing has a lot to do with these deals.  Timing is at least half of the

You have to take off the rose colored glasses, Spud.  The market has spoken: (a)  The GM other than Budcox that has the best insight into Teague's game pref

(Forgive me if you read this before, but there's a lot of overlap right now between topics.) Was reported yesterday that that is what they were attempting to do (... ie, trading back a

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(Forgive me if you read this before, but there's a lot of overlap right now between topics.)

Was reported yesterday that that is what they were attempting to do (... ie, trading back a few slots from #12). Can't fault them that they didn't try. But we don't know what we don't know, in this case, if there was any interest at all. All we know is, if there was interest, no one offered something they felt good about. The other possibility too is that if you trade back, there's a chance that the Celtics (his most likely landing spot at #16 according to some) could trade up ahead of you and you're left hanging.

Nah. Taking all of the risks into account, I'm okay with this. Not thrilled, but okay. We got the guy we really needed to get, imo.

Btw... just for the record... it's not a given that UTA wanted Hill over Teague.

Maybe they did, but it's just as plausible (at least based on what I've read, which might not be everything) that Teague wasn't amenable to extending with UTA, and so IND came in as a 3rd party at some point.

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5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I was listening to the radio. It seems like we tried. 

Per C-Viv, they made 3 different attempts to move up for Sabonis, flat out no.  Tried trading back a little - no luck either.

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Sounds like #12 was the perfect slot, really, not knowing precisely how things would pan out... a slot to where Sabonis could have fallen, and yet, too, a slot where it was safe to say Prince should be available.

Would have loved to have added Arvidas' kid, if only for sentimental reasons of what could have been (... aside from Dr. J, probably our most disappointing "almost" acquisition).

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I think you guys are thinking of Ibaka when he was a good defensive player. Have you seen him play lately? The guy sits at the top of the key and 3 point line and just hoists shot up. It's fine if most gm's don't want to give us equal value for Teague, but please don't act like Ibaka is Hakeem. Also like smoove said in the post before, there are good and bad gm's in the league also. Our GM flat out sucks and thus nobody has enough respect for him to give us any fair deal.

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19 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

I think you guys are thinking of Ibaka when he was a good defensive player. Have you seen him play lately? The guy sits at the top of the key and 3 point line and just hoists shot up. It's fine if most gm's don't want to give us equal value for Teague, but please don't act like Ibaka is Hakeem. Also like smoove said in the post before, there are good and bad gm's in the league also. Our GM flat out sucks and thus nobody has enough respect for him to give us any fair deal.

Just like many teams are lining up to pay Al, Ibaka is valued because they are  both unicorns in the NBA.  The rare interior defending big man that hit not just jumpers but 3s.

 

that and contextually the Magic know what they had with Oladipo, a mediocre undersized SG that can't shoot or finish. They opened up space to play Hezonja and resign Fournier.  Ilyasova is filler, he's likely waived before July 1st so the trade basically broke down to Sabonis and Waiters' replacement (that's not a compliment) for Ibaka.

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7 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Just like many teams are lining up to pay Al, Ibaka is valued because they are  both unicorns in the NBA.  The rare interior defending big man that hit not just jumpers but 3s.

 

that and contextually the Magic know what they had with Oladipo, a mediocre undersized SG that can't shoot or finish. They opened up space to play Hezonja and resign Fournier.  Ilyasova is filler, he's likely waived before July 1st so the trade basically broke down to Sabonis and Waiters' replacement (that's not a compliment) for Ibaka.

I like Oladipo and Sabonis; no way I would hae made that move for Serge. But I would not have made it to get Teague either. Its like another poster said, we should be happy Orlando is in our division.

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19 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Just like many teams are lining up to pay Al, Ibaka is valued because they are  both unicorns in the NBA.  The rare interior defending big man that hit not just jumpers but 3s.

 

that and contextually the Magic know what they had with Oladipo, a mediocre undersized SG that can't shoot or finish. They opened up space to play Hezonja and resign Fournier.  Ilyasova is filler, he's likely waived before July 1st so the trade basically broke down to Sabonis and Waiters' replacement (that's not a compliment) for Ibaka.

If nothing else, it opens up time for Hezonia who is a beast. I guess the trade works for both team. I just think Ibaka is a shell of his former self. But still smart of the Tragic to get rid of Olazipi.

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57 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

I think you guys are thinking of Ibaka when he was a good defensive player. Have you seen him play lately? The guy sits at the top of the key and 3 point line and just hoists shot up. It's fine if most gm's don't want to give us equal value for Teague, but please don't act like Ibaka is Hakeem. Also like smoove said in the post before, there are good and bad gm's in the league also. Our GM flat out sucks and thus nobody has enough respect for him to give us any fair deal.

I didn't watch the playoffs.. he looked like a great defensive player when he was making Horford look like a total scrub last year.
Now, he's gonna be clowning Millsap, and Horford will be against  Vucevic , who looked like an all-star against us last year.
Orlando is gonna be a tough match up for us.

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I have to agree with what's been said about the perceived value of a big man like Ibaka.  I also have to add though that timing has a lot to do with these deals.  Timing is at least half of the equation.  Things just line up for the right deal at the right time and sometimes, you just have to pounce on it or even gamble.  For better or worse though, however you want to look at it, this isn't a part of our "DNA."  We have a tendency to hold on to things for the sake of consistency and IMO, it limits our flexibility.  A good example is the subject at hand...  Would we have made the same trade if Ibaka was our guy?  Abso-Hawking-lutely not.  Not in a frillion, splillion, skrajillion years...and he'd be a sacred cow on the Squawk.  

Don't get me wrong.  I think it's important to value your players accordingly and be smart about your trades.  I'm also not saying either team got the better end of the OKC/ORL deal.  However, I do believe that if we want better return on trades, then we have to keep the mentality that everything is negotiable and not be so caught up in maintaining consistency that we ignore potential value.

 

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1 hour ago, Wretch said:

I have to agree with what's been said about the perceived value of a big man like Ibaka.  I also have to add though that timing has a lot to do with these deals.  Timing is at least half of the equation.  Things just line up for the right deal at the right time and sometimes, you just have to pounce on it or even gamble.  For better or worse though, however you want to look at it, this isn't a part of our "DNA."  We have a tendency to hold on to things for the sake of consistency and IMO, it limits our flexibility.  A good example is the subject at hand...  Would we have made the same trade if Ibaka was our guy?  Abso-Hawking-lutely not.  Not in a frillion, splillion, skrajillion years...and he'd be a sacred cow on the Squawk.  

Don't get me wrong.  I think it's important to value your players accordingly and be smart about your trades.  I'm also not saying either team got the better end of the OKC/ORL deal.  However, I do believe that if we want better return on trades, then we have to keep the mentality that everything is negotiable and not be so caught up in maintaining consistency that we ignore potential value.

 

This +1000000. The sacred cow stuff has to stop. Nobody on this team should be untouchable.  The Hawks don't have a player worthy of building around. I think the Hawks have good players with good character, but that's not enough to get to the next level.

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12 minutes ago, hawkman said:

This +1000000. The sacred cow stuff has to stop. Nobody on this team should be untouchable.  The Hawks don't have a player worthy of building around. I think the Hawks have good players with good character, but that's not enough to get to the next level.

Whether he was being truthful or not Koonin made the comment that no one on our roster is untouchable not so long ago. The "we would consider any and all trades " standard NBA comment. Maybe he was tired of answering questions or maybe he meant it. Believe he made that comment before the trade deadline when a reporter asked a pointed question.

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I think we have a head coach who honestly believes that when he finds a 'guy' he will do whatever to get him or get rid of him. Perfect example is the kid from Baylor, trading your starting PG for a 12 and picking a guy that was probably there at 21. In his opinion he is the smartest guy in the room.

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1 hour ago, 615Hawk said:

I think we have a head coach who honestly believes that when he finds a 'guy' he will do whatever to get him or get rid of him. Perfect example is the kid from Baylor, trading your starting PG for a 12 and picking a guy that was probably there at 21. In his opinion he is the smartest guy in the room.

That's false though. Bud had no idea who would be available at #12 since the trade occured before the draft. By all accounts Bud was targeting Sabonis, tried trading up to get him. After he was gone he tried trading back, no luck. So what's the next thing he's supposed to do, you take the player you have next on your list.

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1 hour ago, 615Hawk said:

I think we have a head coach who honestly believes that when he finds a 'guy' he will do whatever to get him or get rid of him. Perfect example is the kid from Baylor, trading your starting PG for a 12 and picking a guy that was probably there at 21. In his opinion he is the smartest guy in the room.

In one case he was the smartest guy in the room in reference to doing anything it took to get Kawhi for the Spurs. The room included Buford and Pops so if that was his fifteen minutes of fame it's pretty impressive. Hopefully thats not an isolated occurrence. We know he can coach and develop players so I think Prince will make us forget about his draft position not to long from now.  

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7 minutes ago, Thomas said:

In one case he was the smartest guy in the room in reference to doing anything it took to get Kawhi for the Spurs. The room included Buford and Pops so if that was his fifteen minutes of fame it's pretty impressive. Hopefully thats not an isolated occurrence. We know he can coach and develop players so I think Prince will make us forget about his draft position not to long from now.  

I'm really happy we got him. I guess I initially thought we could have gotten him at #21, but then read that teams in the teens would have most likely snatched him up. I think he has great size, strength and he's a 4 year college player, I love that. No D league for this guy. He can just come in right from the start and give us solid minutes off the bench and give us great defensive effort. Having a chance to gather my thoughts in the last couple of days, I'm very happy we drafted him. 

 

Ps He can't wear #21 for obvious reasons. So what # will he wear? My gf guessed 12...lol

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