Jump to content
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $390 of $700 target

Are we just bad negotiators?


JSmooooove

Recommended Posts

Prince does look like a hand picked Spur draft choice. As always, ready to see the Hawks on the floor and will take what we can watch in the summer league whether many people like those games or not, it's still roundball with some of our guys involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the overwhelming evidence so far is we are bad negotiators. Let's forget about the OKC trade because they seal clubbed Budcox on that one.  

How about the pacers trading the 20th pick in the draft and second  for Thaddeus Young. Thad is already  signed to a reasonable 11 ish million a year deal for 3 more years which  makes him even more valuable with the salary boom for starting level players. Compare that to our THJ  trade last year and it's laughable. 

I've got to give Bird  alot of credit on his off  season;   I'm a fan of his moves. Bird has been saying he wants to play a faster more open style; adding Teague and Young accomplishes this. I think Indiana has solidified themselves as a top 4 team in the east, and they haven't even hit free agency yet.  The best part about this trade is they stay flexible. They can test Teague out a year and if he doesn't  fit they let him walk and keep the cap space. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

I think the overwhelming evidence so far is we are bad negotiators. Let's forget about the OKC trade because they seal clubbed Budcox on that one.  

How about the pacers trading the 20th pick in the draft and second  for Thaddeus Young. Thad is already  signed to a reasonable 11 ish million a year deal for 3 more years which  makes him even more valuable with the salary boom for starting level players. Compare that to our THJ  trade last year and it's laughable. 

I've got to give Bird  alot of credit on his off  season;   I'm a fan of his moves. Bird has been saying he wants to play a faster more open style; adding Teague and Young accomplishes this. I think Indiana has solidified themselves as a top 4 team in the east, and they haven't even hit free agency yet.  The best part about this trade is they stay flexible. They can test Teague out a year and if he doesn't  fit they let him walk and keep the cap space. 

Certainly will give Bird credit for acquiring Teague for a point they didn't want anyway and they will play faster. Beware though their new coach hates that running stuff but maybe Bird can straighten that out. Thad is not a quality starter though we'll find out if eleven million is a good deal for a backup quality PF in our new NBA future has truly become the new norm or not. No doubt they will start him but he has not won anywhere and having a good PER on a lousy team has never meant much anywhere. He's an athletic SF playing a position he's not built for because he has zero perimeter game. So it is 50/50 with Bird this offseason so far on paper whether their fans are drunk about it all or not.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

How about the pacers trading the 20th pick in the draft and second  for Thaddeus Young. Thad is already  signed to a reasonable 11 ish million a year deal for 3 more years which  makes him even more valuable with the salary boom for starting level players. Compare that to our THJ  trade last year and it's laughable. 

So you would have been ok if we would have sent 21, Bembry and 44,  Cordinier for Thad Young? Thanks but I will pass on that one and just sign my backup big in free agency.

Edited by Buzzard
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, 615Hawk said:

I think we have a head coach who honestly believes that when he finds a 'guy' he will do whatever to get him or get rid of him. Perfect example is the kid from Baylor, trading your starting PG for a 12 and picking a guy that was probably there at 21. In his opinion he is the smartest guy in the room.

Everyone keeps saying that Prince would have been there at 21? How does anyone know this? These draft experts are just taking educated guesses.  Prince fits our system well and is a lottery pick for our system and he can literally contribute on day one with his skillset.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

So you would have been ok if we would have sent 21, Bembry and 44,  Cordinier for Thad Young? Thanks but I will pass on that one and just sign my backup big in free agency.

Agreed. At least our backup big would hopefully be an actual big. Thad is a nice guy but he is not a true big. We would get more out of Humph coming off the bench for a third or less of that money. At least he knows he is coming off the bench and will truly earn his dollars. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Thomas said:

Agreed. At least our backup big would hopefully be an actual big. Thad is a nice guy but he is not a true big. We would get more out of Humph coming off the bench for a third or less of that money. At least he knows he is coming off the bench and will truly earn his dollars. 

Thad is a career backup making 11 million a season. He has been in the league 10 seasons and averaged 5.9 boards per game and .5 blocks. He is not a bad player coming off the bench; but if he is your starting power forward, you suck at power forward. Enough said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Thad is a career backup making 11 million a season. He has been in the league 10 seasons and averaged 5.9 boards per game and .5 blocks. He is not a bad player coming off the bench; but if he is your starting power forward, you suck at power forward. Enough said.

That has been the problem for his teams in that he has been the starter without a true position because the imbalance between his lack of size and no perimeter game is really big. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

So you would have been ok if we would have sent 21, Bembry and 44,  Cordinier for Thad Young? Thanks but I will pass on that one and just sign my backup big in free agency.

I think you guys are missing my point. It's not about Thad Young it's  about value. We traded the 15th pick in the draft  for the 10th man on a team bad enough to draft Porzingis 3rd overall. Pacers traded the 20th pick in the draft for a guy that's  at a minimum  a proven 6th man and is a serviceable  starter imo. If you can't see the difference between those two trades we may as well stop discussing. I never once advocated trading for Thad Young for us,  but he is a great fit for what Indiana is trying to do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Thomas said:

That has been the problem for his teams in that he has been the starter without a true position because the imbalance between size and no perimeter game is really big. 

He started for bad teams. He could not start for us if his life depended on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Thad is a career backup making 11 million a season. He has been in the league 10 seasons and averaged 5.9 boards per game and .5 blocks. He is not a bad player coming off the bench; but if he is your starting power forward, you suck at power forward. Enough said.

If you think 11 million for Thad Young is alot your delusional. He 's been a better player than DeMaree and Baze  and both guys will likely be making 15 million a year soon. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

 I never once advocated trading for Thad Young for us,  but he is a great fit for what Indiana is trying to do. 

 You prop up Thad because he fits Indy, and knock our moves because of what? We moved the 15th pick, Kelly Oubre for Hardaway Jr.

Oubre's per 36s are not even enough to make we want a do over in that trade. Yes I said it, I like Hardaway Jr better than Kelly Oubre.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

 You prop up Thad because he fits Indy, and knock our moves because of what? We moved the 15th pick, Kelly Oubre for Hardaway Jr.

Oubre's per 36s are not even enough to make we want a do over in that trade. Yes I said it, I like Hardaway Jr better than Kelly Oubre.

Again you are fixated on player names. I don't care about the players and our opinions will vary  on players.  It's about value. Let me explain it differently. We traded a lower pick for a player that gave us nothing last year, and now he only has one year left on his deal. Indiana  traded a pick 5 slots lower for a guy that will start  for them. Let me go ahead and cut off the he won't start argument; even if he doesn't start he will be a valuable  part of their rotation. Plus he is already signed to a reasonable  contract.

WTF does Oubre have to do with  this argument? We have no idea who we would  have drafted. Bobby Portis  was there and yes he is and will always be better than THJ.

I don't see how any logical person can look at those two deals and think our deal was better.

Edited by ATLien_
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

Again you are fixated on player names. I don't care about the players and our opinions will vary  on players.  It's about value. Let me explain it differently. We traded a lower pick for a player that gave us nothing last year, and now he only has one year left on his deal. Indiana  traded a pick 5 slots lower for a guy that will start  for them. Let me go ahead and cut off the he won't start argument; even if he doesn't start he will be a valuable  part of their rotation. Plus he is already signed to a reasonable  contract.

WTF does Oubre have to do with  this argument? We have no idea who we would  have drafted. Bobby Portis  was there and yes he is and will always be better than THJ.

I don't see how any logical person can look at those two deals and think our deal was better.

I would not give up 21 and 44 for a 11 million dollar a year Thad Young. Its really that simple. You think Indy got a great deal; I think the Nets got the best of that one. Money matters,

Next season Indy fans are going to wake up say crap, if we had not traded for Thad Young, we would have 12 million more in cap right now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ATLien_ said:

If you think 11 million for Thad Young is alot your delusional. He 's been a better player than DeMaree and Baze  and both guys will likely be making 15 million a year soon. 

You put a average player on a bad team and he gets his numbers. Humphries, Young, Dalembert, etc....that list is long and undistinguished. Now he is on a somewhat good team, lets see what he does.

I am going out on a limb and saying 13 ppg, 6 rpg, and .4 blocks. Put Humphrey or Splitter starting on that Indy team and they may get you 10 and 10. Does Humphrey and Spilitter cost us 11 to 12 million a year?

Edited by Buzzard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

You put a average player on a bad team and he gets his numbers. Humphries, Young, Dalembert, etc....that list is long and undistinguished. Now he is on a somewhat good team, lets see what he does.

I am going out on a limb and saying 13 ppg, 6 rpg, and .4 blocks. Put Humphrey or Splitter starting on that Indy team and they may get you 10 and 10. Does Humphrey and Spilitter cost us 11 to 12 million a year?

Again bottom line is no matter how much you hate Thad Young he's twice the player THJ is. THJ was on a bad team why didn't he put up better numbers? We gave up more to get  THJ than they did to get Thad. It's  really that simple for me. Even if both trades  were bad there's was less bad. And yes I would have preferred Thad for  our 15th last year over THJ. He could have helped us at SF and Pf, and THJ helped us nowhere. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, ATLien_ said:

Again bottom line is no matter how much you hate Thad Young he's twice the player THJ is. THJ was on a bad team why didn't he put up better numbers? We gave up more to get  THJ than they did to get Thad. It's  really that simple for me. Even if both trades  were bad there's was less bad. And yes I would have preferred Thad for  our 15th last year over THJ. He could have helped us at SF and Pf, and THJ helped us nowhere. 

We disagree on Thad's worth big time. If he was still on a rookie deal or even a MLE and able to put up 13 and 6, I would say great value. But 11 mill this season and 12 mill next season not so much. As much as you bust on Bazemore he is a SG/SF and averaged 5 boards a game last year. Thad''s career average is 5.9 and he is a so called PF in Bird's world.

I do get why Indy did it, just like us they have a hard time attracting free agents, so they spent their money on Thad. But that still does not make it a deal to me.

I guess I am more into analytics than you. Cost vs performance etc...Give me Splitter and Humphrey or Splitter and Mascola at Thad's price all day long.

Edited by Buzzard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

We disagree on Thad's worth big time. If he was still on a rookie deal or even a MLE and able to put up 13 and 6, I would say great value. But 11 mill this season and 12 mill next season not so much. As much as you bust on Bazemore he is a SG/SF and averaged 5 boards a game last year. Thad''s career average is 5.9 and he is a so called PF in Bird's world.

I do get why Indy did it, just like us they have a hard time attracting free agents, so they spent their money on Thad. But that still does not make it a deal to me.

I guess I am more into analytics than you. Cost vs performance etc...Give me Splitter and Humphrey or Splitter and Mascola at Thad's price all day long.

Good healthy debate. I still think Thad's deal  is good when there are rumors that Festus Ezeli will get 17m. Unfortunately  that's the new NBA. 

Here's  a little something to cheer us both up. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
25 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

Good healthy debate. I still think Thad's deal  is good when there are rumors that Festus Ezeli will get 17m. Unfortunately  that's the new NBA. 

Here's  a little something to cheer us both up. 

 

 

This did bring a smile to my face!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...