Sap is gone to Denver

[KB21]

6 minutes ago, CP61 said:

I just would rather be bad with hope than above average without any. But we just disagree fundamentally on that. Yeah we could draft awful and never amount to anything. Or we finally find the one guy we've always needed. Yeah the positive one is less likely, but at least there's a chance.

You have also admitted that you didn't experience the absolutely misery of 1999-2007 as well.  I did, and it was terrible to go through that.  I almost lost all interest in the NBA with that rebuild.  

[Diesel]

Here's the truth...

Tanking is hard because:

1.  The NBA controls who gets the first pick.

2.  You have to have a GM with a plan.

3.  Scouts are everything.

 

Let's look at the Wizards for a second.

2008- 2009.. they tanked... 19 win season.  The League awarded them the #1 pick overall.  (John Wall). 

They sucked for 3 more years before making it to the playoffs.  The next 3 of 4 years, they were knocked out in the 2nd round.   They went from treadmill to treadmill. 

 

Let's look at the Hornets for a second.

They tanked in 2004-2005.  The next year, they drafted Raymond Felton and Sean May.    They have made it to the playoffs 3 times since 2006...  And they have never made it out of the first round.   11 yrs. 3 playoffs, and 0 won series. 

The point is that I hear a lot of fans talking about bring on the tanking... and let's get the next Lebron.  It doesn't work that way.  At this stage is somebody doesn't know that the NBA is running the draft lottery to develop it's own interest.. then they are crazy.   How do you think Cleveland got Lebron?  And when he left Cleveland, they got 3 #1 picks...  for compensation.  

The League is never going to compensate Atlanta... because Fans won't support the Hawks. 

 

[CP61]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

You have also admitted that you didn't experience the absolutely misery of 1999-2007 as well.  I did, and it was terrible to go through that.  I almost lost all interest in the NBA with that rebuild.  

I hope it doesn't take that long, but you bet your ass I'll be on here talking up whatever 19 year old we pick every single year. For now I'll just have to get a Sixers jersey for when they make the playoffs this year ;).

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

So you'd rather take back 25ish million in probably bad contracts after spending the first half of the season playing .500 ball than using that 30 million on free agents and trades NOW? Surely you don't think any of those teams could trade for him at mid season with just cap room, right? Even if they did that's exactly the situation we have now. 

IF I'm taking back bad contracts, I'm also aquirering first rounders.

 Cole Aldrich and a first  or maybe a first and Dieng... sure... I'd do that.  I'd rather have something that nothing.  PLUS you have to fill out the roster anyway.  The way things are looking, we will fill out our roster with Bad players.  

[CP61]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Here's the truth...

Tanking is hard because:

1.  The NBA controls who gets the first pick.

2.  You have to have a GM with a plan.

3.  Scouts are everything.

 

Let's look at the Wizards for a second.

2008- 2009.. they tanked... 19 win season.  The League awarded them the #1 pick overall.  (John Wall). 

They sucked for 3 more years before making it to the playoffs.  The next 3 of 4 years, they were knocked out in the 2nd round.   They went from treadmill to treadmill. 

 

Let's look at the Hornets for a second.

They tanked in 2004-2005.  The next year, they drafted Raymond Felton and Sean May.    They have made it to the playoffs 3 times since 2006...  And they have never made it out of the first round.   11 yrs. 3 playoffs, and 0 won series. 

The point is that I hear a lot of fans talking about bring on the tanking... and let's get the next Lebron.  It doesn't work that way.  At this stage is somebody doesn't know that the NBA is running the draft lottery to develop it's own interest.. then they are crazy.   How do you think Cleveland got Lebron?  And when he left Cleveland, they got 3 #1 picks...  for compensation.  

The League is never going to compensate Atlanta... because Fans won't support the Hawks. 

 

Save some tinfoil for everyone else.

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

You have also admitted that you didn't experience the absolutely misery of 1999-2007 as well.  I did, and it was terrible to go through that.  I almost lost all interest in the NBA with that rebuild.  

Is it more miserable than pretending to be "good" and getting completely body slammed by teams you shouldn't be body slammed by? I do not think so. Those comebacks, while very funny do not make up for the misery of home Pelicans and Nets games to just get started.

its a free country, I can just turn the tv or turn it off if it's bad. I won't ever lose my love for watching sports. 

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, CP61 said:

I hope it doesn't take that long, but you bet your ass I'll be on here talking up whatever 19 year old we pick every single year. For now I'll just have to get a Sixers jersey for when they make the playoffs this year ;).

Realistically I'd say 4-5. It's not a total tear down and I'm 22 years old, just like with the Braves rebuild, which started when I was 20, I can wait. I'll still be here.

Total teardown, I would say longer though.

[Flight]

This is the beginning of a sad era for us smh

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Is it more miserable than pretending to be "good" and getting completely body slammed by teams you shouldn't be body slammed by? I do not think so. Those comebacks, while very funny do not make up for the misery of home Pelicans and Nets games to just get started.

its a free country, I can just turn the tv or turn it off if it's bad. I won't ever lose my love for watching sports. 

You're complaining about losing regular season games??  Really?  I guess when Cleveland loses to Brooklyn.. all hell breaks lose. 

In the playoffs we lost to Cleveland, Cleveland, and Washington.  I will go on the record and say for our level (including circumstance), we were supposed to lose those games.

 

[CP61]

Just now, Lurker said:

Realistically I'd say 4-5. It's not a total tear down and I'm 22 years old, just like with the Braves rebuild, which started when I was 20, I can wait. I'll still be here.

Total teardown, I would say longer though.

Hey I'm 21 and am thinking the exact same way. I can understand why others feel like they have waited long enough though. That's just not me.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, CP61 said:

Hey I'm 21 and am thinking the exact same way. I can understand why others feel like they have waited long enough though. That's just not me.

Some of us have seen this before.  The one thing about it... BK was smart enough to get Assets when he rebuilt.  We drafted Smoove and Childress at the same time.  We drafted Shelden and Acie at the same time.  If you don't recognize some of those names... there's a good reason for it... when you tank.. there are lots of mistakes that can be made.  

Somebody drafts the Anthony Bennetts and the Darko and the Kidd Gilchrists and the Bargani, and the Morrisons, and the  Yi... and all of these guys have expectations that becuse they are in the lottery, their picks are good.  Sometimes, you pass up a generational talent like CP3 for Marvin Williams.  or you pick a Shelden because he was the best needed player in a weak draft. 

Buckle up young fella.  It's going to be ugly. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I'll say we are in a better place to win one right now than yesterday. Sap was keeping us in the middle of the east. Now we can finally bottom out and get great young talent 

Or we can bottom out and stay at the bottom.   If anybody would've told you or anybody else in this fan base at the beginning of last season that we could re-sign Sap for 3 yrs at 90 million, with a team option after year 2, people would've jumped all over that.

Instead, we just let him go for nothing.

Kojak ( Travis ) better have a hell of a plan up his sleeve next offseason.  These "star" free agents aren't going to losing teams that aren't progressing, no matter how much money you offer them.

[Admin]

15 minutes ago, Diesel said:

IF I'm taking back bad contracts, I'm also aquirering first rounders.

 Cole Aldrich and a first  or maybe a first and Dieng... sure... I'd do that.  I'd rather have something that nothing.  PLUS you have to fill out the roster anyway.  The way things are looking, we will fill out our roster with Bad players.  

We don't have nothing. We have 30 million more to spend than we would had we given it to Millsap. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, DBac said:

To be fair to management, getting a first rounder for Korver was/is great. Teague for Prince/Getting Dennis minutes is fine. They couldn't keep Millsap and Demarre and made the better choice by far. 

 

Where they really blew it was going after Dwight last year and losing Al. Not just because of the on court product, but because losing Al mean't that they couldn't trade Millsap for assets which would've smoothed out the rebuild a bit. The next biggest mistake was moving Kyle and then keeping Millsap (even vetoing a deal). Now they've lost their two best players for nothing in consecutive years. 

On the bright side, Schlenk stayed strong and stuck to his word. That deal was easy to beat, yet we didn't even get a whisper of interest from ATL. Schlenk has a big mess to clean up though.

No . . where they messed up at was trading Howard in the first place.  And if they were dead set on trading him, they didn't have to do it so quickly.

See if you could've gotten a better deal back for him.  As desperate as Indiana was, I would've at least liked to see if they could've worked out a deal to get Howard and Baze out of here for Paul George + Filler.   Even as a 1 year rental, a Howard/Baze for George/Al Jefferson would be big time going into 2018.  We'd have 2 contracts ending and a boat load of cap space to do the rebuild then.  Instead, we're stuck with the M & M Boyz ( Miles and Marco ) for multiple years.

[Peoriabird]

32 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

I hate that you've become the voice of sanity around here and that we are agreeing on stuff. How the heck did this happen? 

We've come a long way my friend but man, you definitely can use some help with this out of control mob.

[parfait]

46 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

Okay so because the organization made bad moves in the past they should overpay for Hardaway (which is what it will probably take) or make Millsap the focal point of a team not nearly good enough to win with? 

I would contend that the market for Hardaway has pretty well dried up. I think we could get him on an affordable 2 or 3 year deal. The roster looks that much better with a young improving guy like him retained at a good price.

[ATLHawks3]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

No . . where they messed up at was trading Howard in the first place.  And if they were dead set on trading him, they didn't have to do it so quickly.

See if you could've gotten a better deal back for him.  As desperate as Indiana was, I would've at least liked to see if they could've worked out a deal to get Howard and Baze out of here for Paul George + Filler.   Even as a 1 year rental, a Howard/Baze for George/Al Jefferson would be big time going into 2018.  We'd have 2 contracts ending and a boat load of cap space to do the rebuild then.  Instead, we're stuck with the M & M Boyz ( Miles and Marco ) for multiple years.

The key to trades is getting the other team to agree to a deal. Whose to say Indiana would've gone for that?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

57 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

What an unbelievable amount of knee jerking going on around here. Maybe I should be used to it but holy hell how does this equate to rebuilding when everyone with a brain knew Millsap wasn't coming back? 

I cant believe the offseason is over and we are going into the season with what 6-8 players? 

I think everyone assumed that Millsap wouldn't be back because we wouldn't be able to afford the deal and pay him for 5 years at max dollars.  But for a potential 2 years at max dollars?

Like I said . . if people thought we could bring back Sap at 3/90 back in November, I think most of us would've been for it, due to the number of years and the team option.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just now, ATLHawks3 said:

The key to trades is getting the other team to agree to a deal. Whose to say Indiana would've gone for that?

Whose to say that they wouldn't have?

You give them Howard and Baze, maybe they re-sign Teague and still stay in the playoff picture.

We don't know because we didn't even try.

[DBac]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

No . . where they messed up at was trading Howard in the first place.  And if they were dead set on trading him, they didn't have to do it so quickly.

See if you could've gotten a better deal back for him.  As desperate as Indiana was, I would've at least liked to see if they could've worked out a deal to get Howard and Baze out of here for Paul George + Filler.   Even as a 1 year rental, a Howard/Baze for George/Al Jefferson would be big time going into 2018.  We'd have 2 contracts ending and a boat load of cap space to do the rebuild then.  Instead, we're stuck with the M & M Boyz ( Miles and Marco ) for multiple years.

Why would Indiana take on Dwight and move their best young piece (Myles Turner) out of his most comfortable position? 

So to the people who don't think this is a tank job, who are you looking at to make the team competitive and 'fun'? I became a pretty big Jon Simmons fan, I'd love to see him dunking on people for the Hawks. I've gotta admit though, he does kinda profile a lot like the guy who will be a pretty big FA bust (Solomon Hill, Kent Bazemore, etc). I think JoVal is a monster for Toronto who isn't used enough, so I wouldn't mind if they tried to make a move to add him via trade since there is a huge void at the C spot. Probably want a more mobile guy at the 5 though.