GOODBYE THJ!

[Flight]

31 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

Putting myself firmly in the match the contract camp as well. The money is there and the kid has improved for us. How are we ever going to get to the championship level if we keep letting our own developed guys walk to other teams?

I'd agree with this if we didn't have Baze as an example of how it could easily go awry lol

[rd79]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Well, I wanted to keep a poll open for the topic I opened...   I had put a poll in  and thought it would be interesting to see how many people agreed or disagreed.

Was the poll already in there when I asked? I saw it later and voted...

[rd79]

Just now, rd79 said:

Was the poll already in there when I asked? I saw it later and voted...

But actually this is the original topic here 

[LucastheThird]

3 minutes ago, Flight said:

I'd agree with this if we didn't have Baze as an example of how it could easily go awry lol

We're not arguing if Tim is worth the contract. We have people who don't want to match simply because of Baze's contract. This is exactly what some posters (who know the cap better than me) thought he would get paid. I'm not gonna let BudCox's blunders stop me from from resigning a good young player

[HawkItus]

I'm team "you cannot match"

[Admin]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

The Baze signing was the worst. I said at the time it was bad idea, no one listened to me. I was summarily dismissed, "that's the market" blah, blah. 70 million is the going rate for a limited, back small forward? 

No one listened to you? I'm pretty sure the vast majority were shocked and disappointed by that deal even at the time and it's only gotten worse. Sucks because I actually like Baze a lot but he's getting paid more than twice what he's worth.

[Admin]

1 hour ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

Good for TH Jr, but I do feel a little used... It's like the Knicks shipped off TH Jr to Bud's summer camp and now they're picking him up.

You are finally a true Hawks fan. Welcome brother. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, rd79 said:

I would have liked to see THJ staying on the Hawks. But since Baze isn't a real SF - I'd say he is a SG too - you can't spend $33M per on one position - unless it's a star. That's the reason we didn't keep Jeff.  If we somehow get rid of Baze I would be fine with matching. But two bad contracts - especially at one position? No thanks...

BTW Chess means to think in advance have more than one plan and stay flexible to be able to react to every move. What's your plan if we don't draft studs on PF and C? If that's the only plan it's not even checkers. It's marbles...

I think this is part of the problem here.  We're all looking at the decision with Baze in mind.  IMO, the only thing that should matter to us is THJr's Potential.   If you believe he has the potential to live up to the contract, then you match.  IF you don't, then you don't.   Baze or our cap should have Nothing to do with it.

For emphasis, let me bring up the past...

Quote

Quote

Golden State was keen to secure Curry long-term as one of its two cornerstones, alongside center Andrew Bogut, despite Curry's ongoing struggles with ankle problems.

Curry tweeted recognition of the deal and thanks to Warriors ownership Wednesday: "#Dubs Gameday baby. And thanks to Joe Lacob & the Warriors hopefully I can say that for the next 4 yrs. agreed on extension."

Curry missed 40 of 66 games last season and sprained his twice-surgically repaired right ankle again in the preseason. New Warriors general manager Bob Myers and Lacob felt Curry was still worth the risk given the point guard's production when healthy.

 

 

The 24-year-old Curry averaged career lows of 14.7 points, 5.3 assists and 3.4 rebounds last season. He has still proven to be one of the NBA's most prolific shooters when he's on the court. Curry has shot 47 percent from the field and 44 percent from 3-point range in his first three seasons.

 

Now.. I'm not saying that THJr is Steph Curry but GS took a chance on Curry when he was injured and looked nothing like an allstar and it paid off.  I'm sure that there were some salary cap implications that fans didn't like...

Quote

But it's a little surprising the Warriors couldn't get Curry for less than they did.

When you consider that Curry's draft-class contemporary Ty Lawson got four years and $48 million from the Nuggets, it might feel like the Warriors got their man at a slight discount. But really, Lawson hasn't had anything close to the injury history Curry has. He was a risk-free investment with a pretty high ceiling. Curry’s potential may be greater than Lawson’s, but he’s a substantially riskier investment.

 

[AHF]

So anyone being critical of THJr - just give the guy your best wishes.  Most people are here but you can't be any more mad at him than Jon Koncak or Baze or anyone else for taking the money.

For those critical of the Knicks, if they were always going to overpay then this worked out pretty well for them.  THJr goes from a below worthless player his first year with us to a very solid 6th man / weak starter with us last year and they get him back and a midround first to play with in the mean time.

For those critical of Schlenk, what do you think he has done wrong here?  When we traded for THJr we all knew we had him for 2 years and then were at risk for losing him for nothing or having to overpay him.  That decision point has arrived.  Schlenk didn't overpay Baze at the same position.  All Schlenk did was acquire a veteran SG who plays the same role as THJr (weak starter / good 6th man) for 1/3 of the cost.  The only chance to sign THJr on a discount was last offseason.  This offseason he wasn't going to resign until he felt the market out.  The only people that should be mad at Schlenk for this are those that want THJr back at 4 years and $71M with a 15% trade kicker.  If you want that then be annoyed at Schlenk when he doesn't match but otherwise THJr's entire arc with us was a Budcox move where we traded the #15 pick in the draft and got basically 1 good regular season and 0 good playoff appearances.  That deal isn't the worst but you always knew it could come to an abrupt end from day 1.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

So anyone being critical of THJr - just give the guy your best wishes.  Most people are here but you can't be any more mad at him than Jon Koncak or Baze or anyone else for taking the money.

For those critical of the Knicks, if they were always going to overpay then this worked out pretty well for them.  THJr goes from a below worthless player his first year with us to a very solid 6th man / weak starter with us last year and they get him back and a midround first to play with in the mean time.

For those critical of Schlenk, what do you think he has done wrong here?  When we traded for THJr we all knew we had him for 2 years and then were at risk for losing him for nothing or having to overpay him.  That decision point has arrived.  Schlenk didn't overpay Baze at the same position.  All Schlenk did was acquire a veteran SG who plays the same role as THJr (weak starter / good 6th man) for 1/3 of the cost.  The only chance to sign THJr on a discount was last offseason.  This offseason he wasn't going to resign until he felt the market out.  The only people that should be mad at Schlenk for this are those that want THJr back at 4 years and $71M with a 15% trade kicker.  If you want that then be annoyed at Schlenk when he doesn't match but otherwise THJr's entire arc with us was a Budcox move where we traded the #15 pick in the draft and got basically 1 good regular season and 0 good playoff appearances.

Thanks Bud...why are you still with this organization?

[Admin]

14 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Bembry is not even a pro at this time.  Dorsey??  Seriously... 

Just because we draft them.. doesn't mean that they are good. 

Ask James Harden if Bembry is any good. I had a pretty good view of Harden being extremely frustrated by Bembry looking like a young DWade out there on D after Harden started the game on fire. 

And right back at you. Just because the Hawks drafted a player doesn't mean they're not any good. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Thanks Bud...why are you still with this organization?

Budcox was a terrible GM and is gone from that role.

[Thomas]

No matter what we think it is hard to imagine almost 40% of our cap going to one solid position with Schlenk calling the shots. Got one day to trade Baze right now if we want to keep Tim am quite sure. Baze's name will come up no matter what, on the subject of Tim.

[Flight]

So since the Pistons traded for Avery can we just offer KCP something more than Dion but less than Tim? 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, Dolfan23 said:

Ask James Harden if Bembry is any good. I had a pretty good view of Harden being extremely frustrated by Bembry looking like a young DWade out there on D after Harden started the game on fire. 

And right back at you. Just because the Hawks drafted a player doesn't mean they're not any good. 

You know as well as I do that Hawks fans believe that every player we draft is the Next great player.

Let me remind you...  Bebe...  Payne... Edy...  you can go on and on.... DeMarr... Rumeal... etc.  Point is that just because we draft them doesn't mean that they are going to be world beaters.. hell, it doesn't mean that they will be able to make it in the league.   At some point we have to look at what the player can do.   And with Bembry... one good defensive series against Harden is not enough. 

 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

Budcox was a terrible GM and is gone from that role.

We still need an engine to drive this team like the Falcons have in Quinn.  Bud=Mike Smith and fan base of the Hawks will continue to blame everybody else for the team's shortcomings except Bud so get ready Schlenk. Oh wait, its already happening

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

So anyone being critical of THJr - just give the guy your best wishes.  Most people are here but you can't be any more mad at him than Jon Koncak or Baze or anyone else for taking the money.

For those critical of the Knicks, if they were always going to overpay then this worked out pretty well for them.  THJr goes from a below worthless player his first year with us to a very solid 6th man / weak starter with us last year and they get him back and a midround first to play with in the mean time.

For those critical of Schlenk, what do you think he has done wrong here?  When we traded for THJr we all knew we had him for 2 years and then were at risk for losing him for nothing or having to overpay him.  That decision point has arrived.  Schlenk didn't overpay Baze at the same position.  All Schlenk did was acquire a veteran SG who plays the same role as THJr (weak starter / good 6th man) for 1/3 of the cost.  The only chance to sign THJr on a discount was last offseason.  This offseason he wasn't going to resign until he felt the market out.  The only people that should be mad at Schlenk for this are those that want THJr back at 4 years and $71M with a 15% trade kicker.  If you want that then be annoyed at Schlenk when he doesn't match but otherwise THJr's entire arc with us was a Budcox move where we traded the #15 pick in the draft and got basically 1 good regular season and 0 good playoff appearances.

I agree, there's no room to be critical of anybody involved.  This basically comes down to do you think THJr has the potential to be a good player?

 

[AHF]

Just now, Diesel said:

I agree, there's no room to be critical of anybody involved.  This basically comes down to do you think THJr has the potential to be a good player?

 

You and I are 100% aligned on that.  The statement in your earlier post that we should match or not independent of Baze's contract is also 100% correct.  If you think THJr will be movable and desirable at 4 year, $71M with a 15% trade kicker then you resign him regardless of the fact that you are wasting money on Baze.  The time horizon for this team needing to properly balance its payroll is not next season - we can burn a disproportionate amount of cap on the SG position and not care about that next year with no problem.  All about whether he will be good enough to justify that deal.

[Admin]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You know as well as I do that Hawks fans believe that every player we draft is the Next great player.

Let me remind you...  Bebe...  Payne... Edy...  you can go on and on.... DeMarr... Rumeal... etc.  Point is that just because we draft them doesn't mean that they are going to be world beaters.. hell, it doesn't mean that they will be able to make it in the league.   At some point we have to look at what the player can do.   And with Bembry... one good defensive series against Harden is not enough. 

 

Oh I agree that one game doesn't mean squat and he's got a lot of room to grow but he's got the game to play at this level. This isn't John Jenkins we're talking about here. 

Don't forget we have Josh Smith, Al Horford, Jeff Teague, Dennis Schroder, Taurean Prince... okay the list of successes is short but we have had success with our picks and especially the last few years years we have made some excellent selections. 

[noble]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We got a lot of shooting so I doubt that but man, we need more vets 

It would be an interesting stat to research. What are the career PPG of our current roster?