GOODBYE THJ!

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, swanlee said:

Wow this is the worst possible move this team could make. A 25 year old star on the rise and we ship him off. Done with this team F them

You literally made me spit out part of my sandwich at lunch when I read this at work. What star only averages 14 ppg and does not defend, rebound or assist? If THIS is what makes you stop being a hawks fan...wow. Just wow.

[sturt]

Dang.

 

It's been 12 hours already. What's the hold up?

[Lurker]

And this is how I can tell that some of you guys need to look at the facts instead of listening to your heart and watching the flashy plays and dunks with a player.

Dennis is a worthless loser but THJ is awesome and needs to stay a Hawk for life? gtfo, that shows how much you know, THJ isn't that much better than Dennis at all, and will likely fail in New York again.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Lurker

[cowa]

From Woj:

"The Detroit Pistons are renouncing the rights to restricted free-agent guard Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, turning him into the marketplace's No. 1 unrestricted free agent, league sources told ESPN.

The Pistons have been reluctant to meet Caldwell-Pope's $25 million-plus asking price, and the acquisition of Boston Celtics guard Avery Bradley on Friday liberated Detroit to let Caldwell-Pope leave the franchise."

You're not getting KCP for less than 4/$100M.  But if we can get him here even for that price, we should.  And we would still suck and get a high draft pick, but our backcourt for the future would be set.

[DS5]

3 minutes ago, cowa said:

You're not getting KCP for less than 4/$100M.  But if we can get him here even for that price, we should.  And we would still suck and get a high draft pick, but our backcourt for the future would be set.

Then let him go to LA. He's not worth $25 million per. I'd prefer THJ at $18/yr. 

[sturt]

21 minutes ago, cowa said:

You're not getting KCP for less than 4/$100M.  But if we can get him here even for that price, we should.  And we would still suck and get a high draft pick, but our backcourt for the future would be set.

Almost zero interest here. Fwiw.

[Sothron]

Yeah, no, KCP can kick rocks for that kind of money.

We need to position ourselves as a team with cap room for the upcoming seasons when all these teams that spent like crazy maniacs the last two offseasons will be capped out.

[REHawksFan]

Regarding KCP - Like him as a player, wouldn't mind him on the team.  Wouldn't go near $25M per year though.  Statistically, he shoots for a lower % than THJ and has worse Off and DEF Plus Minus in addition to lower PER.  Basically, he doesn't suck but he's a slightly better defending THJ.  Now if we all think $17.75M is too much for Timmy, how in the hell would we think $25M is OK for KCP? 

 

 

[RedDawg#8]

People need to start realizing how inflated these players values are with the new cap. 

The league is beyond repair at this point. Having the spike in salary cap without lowering the % of cap allocated to max contracts and beyond has just made for an environment where every franchise will be in cap hell again while paying guys that will have ZERO impact on the leagues brand 20mil a year. 

Think about this, Julio Jones makes 14 million a year. He is one the best athletes in the game of football and has broken numerous records already. 

He makes less than Kent Bazemore.....

and that is why the NBA is what it is compared to the NFL. Zero parity, only a handful of players matter. And even if your team decides to spend 100+ million in payroll, you still won't have a chance at a title if one of the top 3 players isn't on your team.

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by RedDawg#8

[AHF]

KCP is a much, much better defender than THJr but neither of them rebound or set people up on offense and THJr shoots better.  Hard pass on KCP at $25M+.

This isn't the right time for us to throw down the money for a FA anyway.  You want to do that as you are ready to start moving up the standings.  We are moving down this year.

[Sothron]

Yes, we don't need to assemble the 30-38 win hawks team here. If we are going into the rabbit hole we need to do it with as much cap room, young talent and first round picks as possible. Signing KCP for 25m a season is insanity.

[sturt]

14 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Think about this, Julio Jones makes 14 million a year. He is one the best athletes in the game of football and has broken numerous records already. 

He makes less than Kent Bazemore.....

and that is why the NBA is what it is compared to the NFL. Zero parity, only a handful of players matter. And even if your team decides to spend 100+ million in payroll, you still won't have a chance at a title if one of the top 3 players isn't on your team.

All well taken, but just by virtue of the nature of the game... as I not so long ago droned on and on about as I built the case for a rules-based solution to player manipulated rosters so we don't need to wait for a CBA one several years out... the entire roster is just a few more than what takes the field in baseball and football. Moreover, unlike football, a player plays both offense and defense, and unlike baseball, a player has opportunity to make a difference with every minute he's on the floor.

And "parity" isn't technically what's missing. It's an important distinction because people routinely point to the NBA's most popular times and assert that there wasn't parity then, so why would we want parity now. And so the mislabeling invents a strawman--because that's true that there wasn't parity in the sense that every team had a legit chance.

So, no, it's not parity we're talking about. Rather, I think what most of us are hoping for is what we had in the 80s--legitimate competitors beyond BOS and LAL year-in-year-out.

What do we call that? We do need a name for it.

Whatever that was, it was not like now when you can say with confidence before one season even finished (!) who will be in the NBA Finals at the end of the next season.

 

[AHF]

You call it: 

The End of the Super Friends Era of the NBA

[hawkman]

14 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Yes, we don't need to assemble the 30-38 win hawks team here. If we are going into the rabbit hole we need to do it with as much cap room, young talent and first round picks as possible. Signing KCP for 25m a season is insanity.

We don't need any $25 mil 'heroes' next season, or for maybe the next two seasons. I want everyone on the roster to play 'Bud Ball' and give 100%, but I don't want any Bob Suras or Stephen Jacksons on this team. That goes for any guy that's currently on the roster as well. And when I say,  "any guy that's currently on the roster", yes, I mean Dennis. 

[ATLien_]

The irony all of this is @AHFand I both predicted this when we crapped on the original THJ trade. Him becoming an average to slightly above average player under Buds tutelage and getting overpaid was honestly the best case scenario for that terrible trade. We compounded the issue by not picking up THJ 5th year option which shows how little faith we had in him after year one with us. 

So now instead of having Bobby Portis Or Oubre(most on squawk wanted)  on a cheap deal for 3 more seasons we have this. The Portis Collins front court would look pretty good right now. 

I would much rather have KCP at this price point than THJ. I would like most of all to let Bud Coach up Ben McLemore on 2 years 11 million.  Let him get his hands on a guy with top 5 talent that you guys all want to tank for. There's no worse situation for a young player than Sacramento.  I can't believe we didn't take a flyer on him. This would be like the THJ trade without giving up a 1st. This team does mind boggling inconsistent things,  and lacks foresight on how to manage assets. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by ATLien_

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

The irony all of this is @AHFand I both predicted this when we crapped on the original THJ trade. Him becoming an average to slightly above average player under Buds tutelage and getting overpaid was honestly the best case scenario for that terrible trade. We compounded the issue by not picking up THJ 5th year option which shows how little faith we had in him after year one with us. 

So now instead of having Bobby Portis Or Oubre(most on squawk wanted)  on a cheap deal for 3 more seasons we have this. The Portis Collins front court would look pretty good right now. 

I would much rather have KCP at this price point than THJ. I would like most of all to let Bud Coach up Ben McLemore on 2 years 11 million.  Let him get his hands on a guy with top 5 talent that you guys all want to tank for. There's no worse situation for a young player than Sacramento.  I can't believe we didn't take a flyer on him. This would be like the THJ trade without giving up a 1st. Thus team does mind boggling inconsistent things,  and lacks foresight on how to manage assets. 

BudCox was doomed from the start

[sturt]

14 minutes ago, ATLien_ said:

The Portis Collins front court would look pretty good right now. 

It would?

I mean, because I'm actually not too disappointed with how it worked out.

THjr eventually gave us something, and I'm not persuaded either of those guys (Oubre or Portis) would have, and not confident either of those guys would have next year either.

And now, I don't really mind having the cap space.

Had he gotten a more reasonable offer, I wouldn't have minded having the option to match that more reasonable offer.

So, no. from my perspective, this particular decision, as derided as it was, turned out to be a win. Perhaps Portis or Oubre tear it up this season and make me re-think that, but for now, I"m content.

 

[Sothron]

I don't see Portis and Collins working out together. Collins needs someone like Noel or a younger Tyson Chandler to make up for his defensive weaknesses.

[ATLien_]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

It would?

I mean, because I'm actually not too disappointed with how it worked out.

THjr eventually gave us something, and I'm not persuaded either of those guys (Oubre or Portis) would have, and not confident either of those guys would have next year either.

And now, I don't really mind having the cap space.

Had he gotten a more reasonable offer, I wouldn't have minded having the option to match that more reasonable offer.

So, no. from my perspective, this particular decision, as derided as it was, turned out to be a win. Perhaps Portis or Oubre tear it up this season and make me re-think that, but for now, I"m content.

 

What cap space are you saving by not having rookie deal? It's literally the cheapest and one of the greatest value contracts in the NBA? Portis is already an average NBA player whose 2 year per 36 puts him at roughly 15 and 11. HIS first two years per is almost 2pts higher than THJ first two years and the win shares are a wash. The Bulls are just as dysfunctional as the Knicks too. Stand to reason he could be even better here. I'm not quite sure what you think we got from THJ because in year one we got zero and year two we got a flashes and disappearing in the playoffs. We'll now lose him for nothing as we tend to do. In short, we gave up the highest pick we had in years for a one semi productive year then lose the asset for nothing. You may not like Portis and I never liked Oubre ,but in either case we would still control a cheap movable asset. We also would have one less roster spot to fill and have another piece to our young core. 

[ATLien_]

4 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I don't see Portis and Collins working out together. Collins needs someone like Noel or a younger Tyson Chandler to make up for his defensive weaknesses.

I believe in general all rookies are bad defensively. LeBron was not good defensively in year one. Taurean Prince was not good defensively early.  There is nothing physically keeping Collins from being a good defender other than elite length. Length helps you block shots doesn't necessarily mean your a good defender.  He doesn't have poor feet or athleticism like Kanter or Okafor. He was the primary scoring option on his team. I expect he will become at worst a average NBA defender.  His defensive awareness is very poor, but that's what coaching and the bench is for. Lets not plan around his D until we know what he'll be.