Some info on Marvin Bagley

[EazyRoc]

Yes it does. Both will improve with experience. Will he be a game changer defensively ? Probably not. However, he’s showing glimpses of a guy who could be an impact elite level offensive player.

[KB21]

21 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Yes it does. Both will improve with experience. Will he be a game changer defensively ? Probably not. However, he’s showing glimpses of a guy who could be an impact elite level offensive player.

So, what exactly makes him an elite level offensive player?  He's not a great shooter.  He's not a great passer.  He's not an offensive initiator.  He's not going to be able to handle the basketball in tight spaces.  

He's a pick and roll dive man on offense, and that's pretty much it at this point.

[EazyRoc]

You mean to tell me he can’t shoot, pass, handle, or create and he STILL avgs 20 a game at like 60% FG ? Looks an awful lot like potential to me.

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

So, what exactly makes him an elite level offensive player?  He's not a great shooter.  He's not a great passer.  He's not an offensive initiator.  He's not going to be able to handle the basketball in tight spaces.  

He's a pick and roll dive man on offense, and that's pretty much it at this point.

 

[KB21]

50 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

You mean to tell me he can’t shoot, pass, handle, or create and he STILL avgs 20 a game at like 60% FG ? Looks an awful lot like potential to me.

 

around 90% of his offense comes at the rim.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

around 90% of his offense comes at the rim.

This is why I never take you seriously. 

[EazyRoc]

7 hours ago, KB21 said:

around 90% of his offense comes at the rim.

and HE STILL avgs 20 shooting over 60% from the field and taking 2 3pters a game. Can you imagine how much better he will be with JUST the natural maturation and development that comes with experience ( even IF he doesn’t work on his game which isn’t likely) ?

[KB21]

4 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

and HE STILL avgs 20 shooting over 60% from the field and taking 2 3pters a game. Can you imagine how much better he will be with JUST the natural maturation and development that comes with experience ( even IF he doesn’t work on his game which isn’t likely) ?

I don't see him ever developing a legitimate jump shot or passing ability.  If I stretch and squint hard, I might see him able to attack close outs off the dribble while not really being able to go one on one off the dribble.  A lot of his point production comes off offensive rebounds, but you cannot bank on that in the NBA.  Like I said, I think he is a pick and roll dive man offensively that lacks the requisite skills to be more than that, and he's an awful defender.

[EazyRoc]

I think hes a plus athlete at 6’11 235 with above average speed/quickness and borderline elite leaping ability. He has the profile of an elite PnR big. He has good hands and can catch anything thrown his way. I think he will be a decent shooter as a pro. Nothing to suggest he couldn’t improve in the post. He could probably average 10 rebounds a game as a rookie. He would definitely get a ton of opportunities in transition. He has the physical tools to improve defensively. He does have his negatives of course, but cmon. Let’s not pretend this guy won’t be a very good pro.

[hazer]

On 3/12/2018 at 11:21 PM, NBASupes said:

This is why I never take you seriously. 

No one does.....

[NBASupes]

15 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

I think hes a plus athlete at 6’11 235 with above average speed/quickness and borderline elite leaping ability. He has the profile of an elite PnR big. He has good hands and can catch anything thrown his way. I think he will be a decent shooter as a pro. Nothing to suggest he couldn’t improve in the post. He could probably average 10 rebounds a game as a rookie. He would definitely get a ton of opportunities in transition. He has the physical tools to improve defensively. He does have his negatives of course, but cmon. Let’s not pretend this guy won’t be a very good pro.

He's has elite speed and quickness. His leaping ability is good, not quite elite. His 2nd jump is world class. The way the NBA is and the space he will have. It would not surprise me if he's averaging 28ppg and 14 rpg as a 3rd year player. He's the best prospect in the class for me. Yes, I know Ayton has more of a NBA ready frame and his scoring is more advanced but don't underestimate just how crazy Bagley can be even with an average wingspan for his height once he gets more polished. 

[KB21]

On 3/13/2018 at 7:26 PM, EazyRoc said:

I think hes a plus athlete at 6’11 235 with above average speed/quickness and borderline elite leaping ability. He has the profile of an elite PnR big. He has good hands and can catch anything thrown his way. I think he will be a decent shooter as a pro. Nothing to suggest he couldn’t improve in the post. He could probably average 10 rebounds a game as a rookie. He would definitely get a ton of opportunities in transition. He has the physical tools to improve defensively. He does have his negatives of course, but cmon. Let’s not pretend this guy won’t be a very good pro.

He could average 10 rebounds a game as a rookie on a team that doesn't stress defense, but in Atlanta, he will be unplayable on most nights because of how terrible his defense is.  He's cluless when it comes to defense.  Far worse than DeAndre Ayton on defense, and Ayton is not a good defender by any stretch of the imagination.  This guy gets caught in no mans land defensively more than any other player in this draft class.

To maximize his offensive ability, he needs to go to a team that has an elite point guard that can get him the ball in easy scoring situations.  

The truth is, there is nothing that Marvin Bagley has skill wise and athleticism wise that John Collins doesn't have.  The only thing Bagley has on Collins is the hype.  Collins hasn't been pushed as a prospect by shoe companies the way Bagley has.

[Lurker]

If Bagley could just do one more thing well, I wouldn't have an issue with taking him in the top 3 and floating Collins' name for a trade. I'm not outright "no" on him though, there's only one guy where I am, and that's Bamba.

Saying he may average 28/14 in the NBA is just being stupid.

[NBASupes]

On 3/17/2018 at 11:20 AM, Lurker said:

If Bagley could just do one more thing well, I wouldn't have an issue with taking him in the top 3 and floating Collins' name for a trade. I'm not outright "no" on him though, there's only one guy where I am, and that's Bamba.

Saying he may average 28/14 in the NBA is just being stupid.

Saying he won't is lacking foresight. I don't know what he could average but I know his sky is the limit. 

[jy23]

I wasn’t to high on Bamba early on but I’ve grown to love him as a fit on this team. Him next to Collins could be special. His length and rim protection would be great next to Collins along with his offensive upside. 

[jy23]

At this point I’m happy with anyone in the top 5 besides Young and Jackson. Anybody else I think we’re ok

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Forget fit . . . we need straight up TALENT on this team.

The Hawks have to get the best player available, regardless of position.  It will be a luxury to have both Collins and Bagley on this team, even if they can't initially play with each other on the defensive end.  To have two young big who can run the floor like they can, will only make this team better.  And if they can't play with each other, AND they're a detriment to the team, you trade one of them for assets.

The biggest mistake the Hawks could make in this draft, is to try to build a team and select a player according to fit.  That's how a team like Detroit in 2003, passes on Carmelo Anthony and takes Darko Milicic . . because they needed a talented big man.  Or how Memphis passes on James Harden and Stephen Curry, to draft Hasheem Thabeet . . because he was supposedly the next Dikembe Mutombo.

 

[KB21]

8 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Forget fit . . . we need straight up TALENT on this team.

The Hawks have to get the best player available, regardless of position.  It will be a luxury to have both Collins and Bagley on this team, even if they can't initially play with each other on the defensive end.  To have two young big who can run the floor like they can, will only make this team better.  And if they can't play with each other, AND they're a detriment to the team, you trade one of them for assets.

The biggest mistake the Hawks could make in this draft, is to try to build a team and select a player according to fit.  That's how a team like Detroit in 2003, passes on Carmelo Anthony and takes Darko Milicic . . because they needed a talented big man.  Or how Memphis passes on James Harden and Stephen Curry, to draft Hasheem Thabeet . . because he was supposedly the next Dikembe Mutombo.

 

Not taking into account team building is also you you extend your tank out for a few more years.  Look at Philadelpia.  They took Nerlens Noel, then took Joel Embiid, then took Jahlil Okafor.  Only one of those players is still with the team, and they did not get much in the way of assets for either of the other two.  

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Not taking into account team building is also you you extend your tank out for a few more years.  Look at Philadelpia.  They took Nerlens Noel, then took Joel Embiid, then took Jahlil Okafor.  Only one of those players is still with the team, and they did not get much in the way of assets for either of the other two.  

Lol. Bagley is a legit baller that could possibly make the All star, Noel and Okafor are riding the wood and Embiid is a stud. Talent kiddo. Learn it and live it.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

Not taking into account team building is also you you extend your tank out for a few more years.  Look at Philadelpia.  They took Nerlens Noel, then took Joel Embiid, then took Jahlil Okafor.  Only one of those players is still with the team, and they did not get much in the way of assets for either of the other two.  

The problem there was less about position and more about talent evaluation.  They took all 3 thinking they were getting the best player on the board but missed on two of the picks.  Noel and Okafor aren't impact players.  That is the reason they got nothing in return for them - not because they took too many centers.  They have to be thanking the stars that they went ahead and took Embiid even though they had already taken a big man.

(Fit can include 'duplication' as well like David Robinson and Tim Duncan.) 

[coachx]

Quote

I worry about Collins and Bagley III fitting properly on defense too. However, I'm not drafting for need inside the top 10. You have to take best player available. I'm not going to hate on Bagley. The kid should still be a senior in HS right now. I'd take him at #2.

I'd be fine shopping Collins with pick 20 / 30 and seeing what we could get.

 

Quote