Who the hell are we supposedly tanking for?

[NBASupes]

Just now, KB21 said:

He's a lot more Harrison Barnes than he is Kevin Durant.

I've never said he's Kevin Durant but he's clearly not Barnes. Porter has guard skills and passing chops. Barnes was a PF in HS and played as an athletic one. I don't have a comparison for Porter, I would probably say, he's similar to Jeremy Lamb if Lamb was 6'10 and not 6'4 not to mention have intangibles and an elite work ethic drive. 

[KB21]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I've never said he's Kevin Durant but he's clearly not Barnes. Porter has guard skills and passing chops. Barnes was a PF in HS and played as an athletic one. I don't have a comparison for Porter, I would probably say, he's similar to Jeremy Lamb if Lamb was 6'10 and not 6'4 not to mention have intangibles and an elite work ethic drive. 

He doesn't have guard skills.  He's first step is slow, his ball handling is below average, and he can't take anyone off the dribble.  He's going to be a stretch four in the NBA, not a position where he will be required to create off the dribble.

Oh, and he can't defend for crap right now either.

[NBASupes]

Just now, KB21 said:

He doesn't have guard skills.  He's first step is slow, his ball handling is below average, and he can't take anyone off the dribble.  He's going to be a stretch four in the NBA, not a position where he will be required to create off the dribble.

Oh, and he can't defend for crap right now either.

He does have guard skills. You have to be a damn fool to say otherwise with no disrespect to you personally. His first step is pretty good for his height. His ball handling is good for his height. He can take defenders off the dribble with pump fakes, triple threat and hesitation moves which speaks to his versatile skill-set. You do not know what you are talking about. 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

He does have guard skills. You have to be a damn fool to say otherwise with no disrespect to you personally. His first step is pretty good for his height. His ball handling is good for his height. He can take defenders off the dribble with pump fakes, triple threat and hesitation moves which speaks to his versatile skill-set. You do not know what you are talking about. 

Then explain to me why, when he is facing similar athletes like in the Hoop Summit game, he's driving directly into a crowd and forcing shots, while showing that his only shot creation ability comes on pull up jumpers?  The hype surrounding this guy reminds me of the hype that surrounded Andrew Wiggins when he came out of high school.  Wiggins was the "Next LeBron" they said.  

It's all a bunch of hogwash and is a media narrative that is pushed by the shoe companies these players are involved with.  

He's not going to be facing high school athletes who are a foot shorter and a lot less athletic than he is.  He's going to be facing NBA players, and he's going to struggle to create his shot against them because his skill level is not elite.

Doncic's skill level is far more advanced than Porter's.  Doncic is two inches shorter but can dribble circles around Porter as a ball handler, passer, overall shooter, and off the dribble scorer.  

[StephenHawking]

vor 52 Minuten, KB21 sagte:

Doncic is the only elite prospect that will be in this draft.  None of the other guys are elite, unless you think Harrison Barnes, I mean Michael Porter Jr, is elite.

No I'm not talking about Porter jr. 

[Lurker]

This is hilarious.

 

I'll just say this before dropping on out for the night.

 

NBASupes badly busted on Walter Tavares. Don't trust his judgment on prospects.

 

Boom boom.

 

Mic, drop.

[StephenHawking]

Must admit I don't think too highly of porter Jr either. 

He really can't create any separation from what I saw so far. In high school it's easy to shoot over anybody because they aren't the physical freaks as in the nba. Against a team like todays bucks he would've zero chance of making a bucket 

Edited October 30, 2017 by StephenHawking

[marco102]

Say what you want about Luka, the kid is lighting up Euro league like no other at 18 years old.  He could be a superstar.

 

 

[KB21]

Looking back on a few things.

I noticed this kid before I could even spell his last name.

[noble]

On 10/27/2017 at 3:00 PM, CP61 said:

IF he becomes an elite shooter he's the franchise cornerstone we've been begging for. That's a big if though. Even if he doesn't become "the guy" here, he's a pretty fair bet to be a big piece of the puzzle. I heard this said about Lonzo last year and I think it applies to Luka: he might not be the best bet to be the best player on a contender, but he's the best bet to be a piece of a contender. For now, he's still my favorite draft prospect, but it's super early and improvements from the American prospects in college could easily change that.

Haven't we had a ton of those players over the years? I get it, but I think many feel the Hawks need a Superstar, not just another piece to a puzzle we never have the center piece for.

[CP61]

58 minutes ago, noble said:

Haven't we had a ton of those players over the years? I get it, but I think many feel the Hawks need a Superstar, not just another piece to a puzzle we never have the center piece for.

No I agree, but from what I've seen of Doncic this year, he could be that superstar. 

24.0 PPG
65.4% 2PT
43.5% 3PT
88.9% FT
6.8 RPG
3.8 APG
1.3 SPG
27.1 MPG

Here's his stats from his first 4 Euroleauge games this year. He's getting better by the day and that's scary. Like I said in my post, if he's an elite shooter, he's going to be one of the best players in the league. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by CP61

[JTB]

11 hours ago, KB21 said:

Then explain to me why, when he is facing similar athletes like in the Hoop Summit game, he's driving directly into a crowd and forcing shots, while showing that his only shot creation ability comes on pull up jumpers?  The hype surrounding this guy reminds me of the hype that surrounded Andrew Wiggins when he came out of high school.  Wiggins was the "Next LeBron" they said.  

It's all a bunch of hogwash and is a media narrative that is pushed by the shoe companies these players are involved with.  

He's not going to be facing high school athletes who are a foot shorter and a lot less athletic than he is.  He's going to be facing NBA players, and he's going to struggle to create his shot against them because his skill level is not elite.

Doncic's skill level is far more advanced than Porter's.  Doncic is two inches shorter but can dribble circles around Porter as a ball handler, passer, overall shooter, and off the dribble scorer.  

No offense but I’ve watched some games of Lucas Doncic best games and I don’t see him taking any defenders off the dribble either in the nba and he’s not very fast or athletic. I believe he’s going to struggle offensively In terms of one on one offense where as Porter Jr height will allow him to shoot over most perimeter opponents.

What Doncic can do is control the ball where it won’t get stolen , pass well, and shoot....that’s what he’s bringing to the NBA. But those things like dribble penetration, taking defenders off the dribble, athletic finishes or adjustments when facing contact at the goal, etc those things Doncic won’t be doing at the nba level against these athletes in this league.

if you watch Doncic he only looks slightly faster than Porter jr and isn’t nearly as athletic.... that says a lot.

I will take Porter jr or Doncic but all these top notch guys have something they need to work on. Many times in drafts gms and coaches tend to favor athleticism and speed over players who have better skills during that time. Skills can be learned but athleticism and speed is just a God given gift.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, JTB said:

Skills can be learned but athleticism and speed is just a God given gift.

To a point.  Somebody could have easily decided to go with Kwame Brown over Dirk by that measure.  Things like court vision and creativity are frequently as much of a hard wiring issue as athleticism.  The more I've seen of Doncic the more comfortable I would be with him but it is hard to project too far with any of these guys given their age and limited exposure to NBA level competition.  High school and international bball are different beasts from NBA ball in a lot of important ways.

[TheFuzz]

Ayton and Mamba blow Doncic and especially Porter out of the water. I like Doncic but he lacks explosion and shiftiness. He'll be a good glue guy

[marco102]

1 hour ago, TheFuzz said:

Ayton and Mamba blow Doncic and especially Porter out of the water. I like Doncic but he lacks explosion and shiftiness. He'll be a good glue guy

Uhh big men don't dominate anymore, if you don't have  at a minimum of two wings that can get you 20 to 30, a night in the playoffs you're not winning a title.  Now if you have those wings with a big man that has the skills of a KAT or Cousins then you're in real business!

All in all, I'm on the Doncic band wagon because we haven't had a two or three that can do the things he does in Bud's system ever!

We also haven't had a big man like KAT or Cousins, but who knows we may get one of those in free agency in a couple of years.

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Uhh big men don't dominate anymore, if you don't have  at a minimum of two wings that can get you 20 to 30, a night in the playoffs you're not winning a title.  Now if you have those wings with a big man that has the skills of a KAT or Cousins then you're in real business!

All in all, I'm on the Doncic band wagon because we haven't had a two or three that can do the things he does in Bud's system ever!

We also haven't had a big man like KAT or Cousins, but who knows we may get one of those in free agency in a couple of years.

Someone, quick, tell me how many combined playoff games have Cousins and KAT played in?

[marco102]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Someone, quick, tell me how many combined playoff games have Cousins and KAT played in?

Someone quick tell me how many bigs in the NBA have those skills.   If you were to put DC or KAT on Cleveland, Cleveland would sweep the warriors.

You don't have to be a smartass because you don't like the way the Hawks season is going.

[Lurker]

If playoff success is all that matters, please for the love of God, cut the playoffs down to 4 seeds per conference. It's been proven historically that unless several terrible things happen that the 5-8 have a zero percent chance at actually winning the finals. Zero.

[KB21]

15 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Someone quick tell me how many bigs in the NBA have those skills.   If you were to put DC or KAT on Cleveland, Cleveland would sweep the warriors.

You don't have to be a smartass because you don't like the way the Hawks season is going.

It proves my point on why tanking is a bad strategy.  The teams that drafted those players were bad to get them, and then after getting them, they remained.....bad.

[marco102]

Just now, KB21 said:

It proves my point on why tanking is a bad strategy.  The teams that drafted those players were bad to get them, and then after getting them, they remained.....bad.

Actually it doesn't. In today's NBA you need several superstars and all stars to win a championship.  The Hawks weren't getting one through free agency so how in the hell you expect them to get one if not through the draft?  I know your response the lottery doesn't guarantee you a superstar. I get it, but if you look at statics over the time, the number 1 pick has turned out to be an allstar more often than the other picks.