Jaren Jackson Jr

[davis171]

Just now, Lurker said:

Did you even fully read the line? I wasn't just saying the guys that could get a GM fired there.

I just see him as a high floor guy without much upside to drive your team to a championship.

[davis171]

9 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Did you even fully read the line? I wasn't just saying the guys that could get a GM fired there.

Edit: And I have no interest in a Whiteside.

I'd take whiteside If he could shoot 31% from 3 in big 12 play on 2 attempts per game. I think that shows he has the ability to shoot from the midrange with more polishing. EDIT I didn't want him at all until I saw him play a couple games in conference play and saw how much he improved this season.

Edited February 27, 2018 by davis171

[AHF]

Whiteside and DeAndre Jordan are both struggling with their style of play not fitting the NBA right now.  Maybe the pendulum swings back but there are some fit questions about players that fit that archetype.

[davis171]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Whiteside and DeAndre Jordan are both struggling with their style of play not fitting the NBA right now.  Maybe the pendulum swings back but there are some fit questions about players that fit that archetype.

I'd agree but Deandre Jordan and Whiteside didn't shoot above 60% from the line and college and never took shots out of the paint. I'm not saying I want Bamba if we land a top 2 pick or even top 3 but 4- I'd be happy.

Edited February 27, 2018 by davis171

[AHF]

2 hours ago, davis171 said:

I'd agree but Deandre Jordan and Whiteside didn't shoot above 60% from the line and college and never took shots out of the paint. I'm not saying I want Bamba if we land a top 2 pick or even top 3 but 4- I'd be happy.

His shooting isn't great but doesn't seem like it will be the same level of achilles heel for him.  There will be a pick where I'm excited about him.  Not sure where that is yet for me.

(Both JJJ and Bamba have way less strength and body mass than Jordan and Whiteside today.  Not surprising with the age gap but I wouldn't necessarily expect much resemblence their rookie seasons.)

[TheFuzz]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 9:22 PM, KB21 said:

That's interesting, because Duke's defense got a lot better with Bagley out for 5 games.  Wendell Carter Jr. most definitely is a strong defender.  Unlike Bagley, Carter understands rotations and can read what the offense is trying to do, even if he is also weak as a rim protector.  Carter really has an Al Horford vibe to his game, and I like that.  I'm debating on whether I will put him 3rd on my list behind Doncic and Jackson.  

Zone, college vs. nba, tools, motor, attitude, coachability. These guys aren't finished products. Was Anthony Davis a good defender when he joined the NBA? I really don't think Carter's in the same league as a prospect tbh.

[KB21]

On 2/27/2018 at 11:09 AM, davis171 said:

Oh I want Doncic more than anyone in the draft. However @KB21 said that he wasn't a top 3 player in the draft. I think Doncic at worst is a 6'8" Ricky Rubio he just has a super high IQ on the court. On his topside I could see a better Gordon Hayward.

Where have I said that Doncic wasn't a top 3 player in the draft?  Because that is patently untrue.  

[davis171]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Where have I said that Doncic wasn't a top 3 player in the draft?  Because that is patently untrue.  

I was just talking about Ayton who is a top 3 player in the draft I'd draft him #2- and be super excited

Edited February 28, 2018 by davis171

[KB21]

33 minutes ago, TheFuzz said:

Zone, college vs. nba, tools, motor, attitude, coachability. These guys aren't finished products. Was Anthony Davis a good defender when he joined the NBA? I really don't think Carter's in the same league as a prospect tbh.

Yes.  Anthony Davis was an elite defender in college.

1 minute ago, davis171 said:

I was just talking about Ayton who is a top 3 player in the draft I'd draft him #2- and be super excited

Of course you would.  You want to lose, so.....

[davis171]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yes.  Anthony Davis was an elite defender in college.

Of course you would.  You want to lose, so.....

Yup I want the guy we draft to be a bust. JJJ flashes a ton of red flags the guy is 5th in scoring on his college team! SCREAMS Marvin Williams who also wasn't the best player on his college team and flashed potential.

Edited February 28, 2018 by davis171

[AHF]

42 minutes ago, TheFuzz said:

Zone, college vs. nba, tools, motor, attitude, coachability. These guys aren't finished products. Was Anthony Davis a good defender when he joined the NBA? I really don't think Carter's in the same league as a prospect tbh.

Davis was an elite college defender.  He was the National College Basketball Association Defensive Player of the Year (also SEC Defensive Player of the Year).  

[TheFuzz]

24 minutes ago, AHF said:

Davis was an elite college defender.  He was the National College Basketball Association Defensive Player of the Year (also SEC Defensive Player of the Year).  

Bad comparison on my part. AD wasn't a good defender his first 4 or so years in the NBA, I meant, but he was indeed a good defender in college.

[KB21]

OK.  Let's look at the DBPM numbers of the freshman bigs this year and compare them to previous freshman bigs:

1.  Nerlens Noel 11.7

2.  Jaren Jackson Jr. 11.1

3.  Anthony Davis 10.8

4.  Karl Anthony Towns 10.8

5.  Joel Embiid 10.2

6.  Mohamed Bamba 9.3

7.  Jordan Bell 9.3

8.  Steven Adams 8.8

9.  Wendell Carter Jr 7.5

10.  Zack Collins 7.5

11.  Devonta Davis 7.5

12.  Jontay Porter 7.4

13.  Myles Turner 7.3

14.  Jakob Poeltl 7.2

15.  Tristan Thompson 7.2

16.  Robert Williams 7.2

17.  Ethan Happ 6.8

18.  Daniel Gafford 6.2

19.  Bam Adebayo 5.3

20.  Andre Drummond 5.3

21.  Jarrett Allen 4.6

22.  Jahlil Okafor 4.1

23.  DeAndre Ayton 3.8

24..  Marvin Bagley III 3.3

[AHF]

50 minutes ago, TheFuzz said:

Bad comparison on my part. AD wasn't a good defender his first 4 or so years in the NBA, I meant, but he was indeed a good defender in college.

He was All-NBA Defense in his 3rd year and led the league in blocks per game in both his 2nd and 3rd year (while also generating 1.3 spg and 1.5 spg each of those seasons).  The only liabilities for this kid are his health and his teammates.  

[davis171]

5 hours ago, KB21 said:

OK.  Let's look at the DBPM numbers of the freshman bigs this year and compare them to previous freshman bigs:

1.  Nerlens Noel 11.7

2.  Jaren Jackson Jr. 11.1

3.  Anthony Davis 10.8

4.  Karl Anthony Towns 10.8

5.  Joel Embiid 10.2

6.  Mohamed Bamba 9.3

7.  Jordan Bell 9.3

8.  Steven Adams 8.8

9.  Wendell Carter Jr 7.5

10.  Zack Collins 7.5

11.  Devonta Davis 7.5

12.  Jontay Porter 7.4

13.  Myles Turner 7.3

14.  Jakob Poeltl 7.2

15.  Tristan Thompson 7.2

16.  Robert Williams 7.2

17.  Ethan Happ 6.8

18.  Daniel Gafford 6.2

19.  Bam Adebayo 5.3

20.  Andre Drummond 5.3

21.  Jarrett Allen 4.6

22.  Jahlil Okafor 4.1

23.  DeAndre Ayton 3.8

24..  Marvin Bagley III 3.3

Since Noel is a monster right!

[KB21]

Noel is bad because he has no offensive game to speak of and has a problem with thinking he is entitled.  

Notice that the three prospects that you guys want Ayton and Bagley to be were all three MUCH BETTER from a defensive standpoint than Ayton and Bagley are.  In fact, Jaren Jackson has a lot more in common with Anthony Davis than any of these other bigs.  

In fact, looking at their rankings of total BPM:

1.  Anthony Davis 18.7

2.  Karl Anthony Towns 17.3

3.  Jaren Jackson Jr 16.6

4.  Joel Embiid 14.9

5.  Nerlens Noel 14.6

6.  Wendell Carter 14.0

7.  Cody Zeller 12.5

8.  Steven Adams 11.9

9.  Zach Collins 11.5

10.  Mohamed Bamba 11.3

11.  Tristan Thompson 11.1

12.  Jordan Bell 11.0

13.  Jahlil Okafor 10.9

14.  Devonta Davis 10.8

15.  Jakob Poeltl 10.7

16.  Marvin Bagley III 10.6

17.  Justin Patton 10.6

18.  Jontay Porter 10.3

19.  DeAndre Ayton 10.2

[davis171]

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Noel is bad because he has no offensive game to speak of and has a problem with thinking he is entitled.  

Notice that the three prospects that you guys want Ayton and Bagley to be were all three MUCH BETTER from a defensive standpoint than Ayton and Bagley are.  In fact, Jaren Jackson has a lot more in common with Anthony Davis than any of these other bigs.  

In fact, looking at their rankings of total BPM:

1.  Anthony Davis 18.7

2.  Karl Anthony Towns 17.3

3.  Jaren Jackson Jr 16.6

4.  Joel Embiid 14.9

5.  Nerlens Noel 14.6

6.  Wendell Carter 14.0

7.  Cody Zeller 12.5

8.  Steven Adams 11.9

9.  Zach Collins 11.5

10.  Mohamed Bamba 11.3

11.  Tristan Thompson 11.1

12.  Jordan Bell 11.0

13.  Jahlil Okafor 10.9

14.  Devonta Davis 10.8

15.  Jakob Poeltl 10.7

16.  Marvin Bagley III 10.6

17.  Justin Patton 10.6

18.  Jontay Porter 10.3

19.  DeAndre Ayton 10.2

Jaren Jackson is 5th on his college team in scoring and not a go to guy at Michigan State that that is who you want to draft #2 I like him around 5.

[KB21]

I could give two shits about counting stats.  The fact that he is the 5th highest scorer on his team has absolutely no bearing on him as a prospect.  

[davis171]

14 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I could give two shits about counting stats.  The fact that he is the 5th highest scorer on his team has absolutely no bearing on him as a prospect.  

I don't think he will be a bad player but that is a red flag Ayton is significantly better on offense. I don't give a crap about your BPM you could use any analytic to make a point like PER and win shares Ayton would be significantly better. where would you draft Ayton?

Edited March 1, 2018 by davis171

[AHF]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Noel is bad because he has no offensive game to speak of and has a problem with thinking he is entitled.  

Notice that the three prospects that you guys want Ayton and Bagley to be were all three MUCH BETTER from a defensive standpoint than Ayton and Bagley are.  In fact, Jaren Jackson has a lot more in common with Anthony Davis than any of these other bigs.  

In fact, looking at their rankings of total BPM:

1.  Anthony Davis 18.7

2.  Karl Anthony Towns 17.3

3.  Jaren Jackson Jr 16.6

4.  Joel Embiid 14.9

5.  Nerlens Noel 14.6

6.  Wendell Carter 14.0

7.  Cody Zeller 12.5

8.  Steven Adams 11.9

9.  Zach Collins 11.5

10.  Mohamed Bamba 11.3

11.  Tristan Thompson 11.1

12.  Jordan Bell 11.0

13.  Jahlil Okafor 10.9

14.  Devonta Davis 10.8

15.  Jakob Poeltl 10.7

16.  Marvin Bagley III 10.6

17.  Justin Patton 10.6

18.  Jontay Porter 10.3

19.  DeAndre Ayton 10.2

Why are you comparing JJJ and Davis?  Their roles are totally different in college.  ADavis >> JJJ.  Davis was the absolute leader on his team and CPOY.  Is JJJ even Big Ten POY?  Sure he is MichSt POY?  He has some nice skills and is a very good freshman defender but ADavis was much more than that.

That isnt crapping on JJJ.  ADavis was really rare.