Memphis #4 pick

[NBASupes]

Assuming Dedmon and Moose opts out which is possible with Bud gone. We have 41 million in cap space.

Memphis trades: #4 pick, Chandler Parsons, Ben McLemore 

Atlanta trades: #19, 30, 34, John Collins, and DeAndre Bembry

Hawks could select either Bamba or Young. I prefer Bamba paired with Bagley. 

This will Memphis about 20 million in cap space after signing their draft picks. 

I like the pairing of Dennis/Bazemore/prince/Bagley/Bamba. 

I also would like to trade some of our non guaranteed contracts with Miles Plumlee and trade him to Orlando for Biyombo. I like him as a backup center, especially if we lose both Moose and Dedmon.

[nathan2331]

It doubt the Grizzlies agree to that. They probably wouldn't want the picks.

[thecampster]

On 6/7/2018 at 2:31 AM, NBASupes said:

Assuming Dedmon and Moose opts out which is possible with Bud gone. We have 41 million in cap space.

Memphis trades: #4 pick, Chandler Parsons, Ben McLemore 

Atlanta trades: #19, 30, 34, John Collins, and DeAndre Bembry

Hawks could select either Bamba or Young. I prefer Bamba paired with Bagley. 

This will Memphis about 20 million in cap space after signing their draft picks. 

I like the pairing of Dennis/Bazemore/prince/Bagley/Bamba. 

I also would like to trade some of our non guaranteed contracts with Miles Plumlee and trade him to Orlando for Biyombo. I like him as a backup center, especially if we lose both Moose and Dedmon.

See my Capulator thread. We don't have $41 million. You need to fill in the salaries of the rookies and include the 2 million + of dead cap from our trades last year.

 

Furthermore....screw you for trying to trade John Collins....he is currently untouchable. Any further attempts by anyone to include Collins in potential trades will be met with scorn and ridicule. Consider this warning #1.

 

Lastly, the incoming salary from McLemore, Parson, minus the salary of Collins and Bembry would put us over the cap next year. If executed on draft night, it would put us over the cap this year.  If both parties are over the cap, the incoming/outgoing salaries can't be for more than 25% (plus $100,000) of the other (see below). The total salaries for Collins and Bembry this year are $3,504,120. That means the max incoming salary we could receive this year (still in the 17/18 season) would be $3,504,120 x 1.75 +100.000 = $6,232,210. The total of salaries this year for Parsons and McLemore are $28,312,004.  So it wouldn't work this year under the cap. If it was traded on draft night but delayed until after the 1st, we would still have to consider the salaries of Dedmon and Muscala against the cap because they won't make an opt decision until after the first (during the dead period) and are considered a cap hold until they make a decision. The deal couldn't be consummated until after the 1st because the Hawks would need to renounce all of their cap holds (besides the player options...those are in the players' hands) and that would only leave us $19+ million room...way too little to make this deal. The difference next year is larger between the ingoing/outgoing.

Non-Taxpaying Teams

Outgoing salary	Maximum incoming salary
$0 to $6,533,333	175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,0005
$6,533,334 to $19.6 million	The outgoing salary plus $5 million5
$19.6 million and up	125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000

[thecampster]

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q84

 

Including the CBAFAQ on this and the capulator thread.

[thecampster]

So looking at that, let me be clear.  If you are saying we are making a trade that won't be finalized until after the first, they must include Dedmon and Muscala because they can't "assume" they will or won't resign. So a draft night trade to be consummated after the 1st must be for less than $19 million difference in salaries (Hawks incoming).

[NBASupes]

Thanks @thecampster but this trade will work via the CBA as all trades during the NBA draft will not take place officially till after the new NBA year. Remember the Teague-Hill-#12 pick (Prince) trade for example. 

I have a counter trade to my initial trade: 

Assuming just Dedmon opt out which could happen. 

Memphis trades: #4 pick, Chandler Parsons

Atlanta trades: #19, 30, 34, T. Prince, Dedmon(Player to be named)

Denver trades: Faried, #14, #43

Denver lands nothing but cap space. 

Atlanta lands #4 pick, Chandler Parsons

Memphis lands #19, 30, 34, 43, T. Prince, Dedmon(Player to be named), 

Since Dedmon can opt in or out till June 24, moving him is a lot easier as there is a trade market if he opts in. For Moose, unless he opts in before the date, that's a lot harder to do. 

 

This will give Memphis: 

Conley

#14 pick or move up

Prince

Faried or Green

Gasol

Us: 

Dennis/Trae Young

Bazemore

Parsons

Bagley

Collins

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

So looking at that, let me be clear.  If you are saying we are making a trade that won't be finalized until after the first, they must include Dedmon and Muscala because they can't "assume" they will or won't resign. So a draft night trade to be consummated after the 1st must be for less than $19 million difference in salaries (Hawks incoming).

By the NBA rules, any trade during the draft won't take place till the new NBA year July 1st anyway. So this draft would work. 

[NBASupes]

@thecampster : We have 19,703,681 if we change nothing. Keep our cap holds, etc. 

If we remove our cap holds, we have, 24 million. Cut Isaiah Taylor the night of the draft. We have 24.7 million as now we also have a mandatory roster spot we have to fill. We have just enough to take Parsons and just Parsons contract. Without any trades of any players on our roster. Once we add the two picks, we also remove our Morris and Cleveland. Frees up 2.8 million. Dedmon will free up 6.3 million. We are at 9.1 million. Let's say we trade Prince: 2,526,840. That's is 11.6 million. At 10.3, that gives us just enough for the 3 and 4 pick. http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-salaries/nba-rookie-salary-scale-by-draft-year/

 

For Memphis, remove the capholds of Evans which means nothing since they don't give his BR and Chalmers gives them over 5 mil and they would be under the cap, just barely over actually by less than a 100k. Add the non-guarantee contracts and Harrison dead cap of 100k, they are 4.1 under the cap. So this trade will work for Memphis.  Memphis adds 22,590,885 with Dedmon, Prince and Faried. They remove: 24,107,258 which gives Memphis an additional 1,516,373 to add to 4.1 million. Add the #14 at 2,075,300 and the #30 at 1,162,100. They would still have enough to move up to the #7 pick if needed. 

Denver does nothing but gain from this trade cap wise. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1. Again, if a team has capspace this year, a draft day trade does not need to wait until July 1st.

2. The draft occurs BEFORE Dedmon needs to Opt in. So we can use him in any proposal at the draft since we have no idea if he'll opt in or not.

3. Not interested in Moving Collins or Prince

 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

1. Again, if a team has capspace this year, a draft day trade does not need to wait until July 1st.

2. The draft occurs BEFORE Dedmon needs to Opt in. So we can use him in any proposal at the draft since we have no idea if he'll opt in or not.

3. Not interested in Moving Collins or Prince

 

1. The problem is, Atlanta doesn't have the cap space right now. But will July 1st. 

2. Dedmon is traded on the idea that he can do either. He can opt in and go to Memphis or opt out before the trade even official.

3. I rather have Trae Young with Bagley and Collins than Prince. We can find another SF. It's hard to find the perfect PG for what we can try to do in the future. If we trade Collins, Atlanta must feel Bamba can be a better fit next to Bagley. 

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

1. Again, if a team has capspace this year, a draft day trade does not need to wait until July 1st.

2. The draft occurs BEFORE Dedmon needs to Opt in. So we can use him in any proposal at the draft since we have no idea if he'll opt in or not.

3. Not interested in Moving Collins or Prince

 

CANNOT

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

1. The problem is, Atlanta doesn't have the cap space right now. But will July 1st. 

2. Dedmon is traded on the idea that he can do either. He can opt in and go to Memphis or opt out before the trade even official.

3. I rather have Trae Young with Bagley and Collins than Prince. We can find another SF. It's hard to find the perfect PG for what we can try to do in the future. If we trade Collins, Atlanta must feel Bamba can be a better fit next to Bagley. 

Dedmon CANNOT be offered/included/suggested in ANY trade unless he opts in. 

[NBASupes]

55 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Dedmon CANNOT be offered/included/suggested in ANY trade unless he opts in. 

Does anyone have this detail? I been looking for it for months. It's not listed in the CBA as well.

 

We can still do this trade without Dedmon or Moose. The issue is, we will need to free up 7.5 million before June 30th to sign sign our draft picks which dont have a cap hold till June 30th. If Dedmon opts in, we need to trade him for cap space. If he opts out. He does it for us. Of course, Cleveland and Morris can be cut instantly. Taylor contract owes him 30k if not cut directly after the draft June 22th. 

So excluding Dedmon is right but he either needs to be moved or opt out if this deal happens before June 30th before the new CBA takes official on July 1st.

[thecampster]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Thanks @thecampster but this trade will work via the CBA as all trades during the NBA draft will not take place officially till after the new NBA year. Remember the Teague-Hill-#12 pick (Prince) trade for example. 

I have a counter trade to my initial trade: 

Assuming just Dedmon opt out which could happen. 

Memphis trades: #4 pick, Chandler Parsons

Atlanta trades: #19, 30, 34, T. Prince, Dedmon(Player to be named)

Denver trades: Faried, #14, #43

Denver lands nothing but cap space. 

Atlanta lands #4 pick, Chandler Parsons

Memphis lands #19, 30, 34, 43, T. Prince, Dedmon(Player to be named), 

Since Dedmon can opt in or out till June 24, moving him is a lot easier as there is a trade market if he opts in. For Moose, unless he opts in before the date, that's a lot harder to do. 

 

This will give Memphis: 

Conley

#14 pick or move up

Prince

Faried or Green

Gasol

Us: 

Dennis/Trae Young

Bazemore

Parsons

Bagley

Collins

By the NBA rules, any trade during the draft won't take place till the new NBA year July 1st anyway. So this draft would work. 

Again...after the new year, the salary gap is bigger. The Hawks won't have the $41 million you quoted but only $19 million of functional room. currently they have no room.

[thecampster]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

1. The problem is, Atlanta doesn't have the cap space right now. But will July 1st. 

2. Dedmon is traded on the idea that he can do either. He can opt in and go to Memphis or opt out before the trade even official.

3. I rather have Trae Young with Bagley and Collins than Prince. We can find another SF. It's hard to find the perfect PG for what we can try to do in the future. If we trade Collins, Atlanta must feel Bamba can be a better fit next to Bagley. 

Reread my reply. Again, on July 1st, we would calculate to just over $19 million in space.  The original deal you submitted would require significantly more.

[NBASupes]

Just now, thecampster said:

Reread my reply. Again, on July 1st, we would calculate to just over $19 million in space.  The original deal you submitted would require significantly more.

I agree. That's why I created a revised one. 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Again...after the new year, the salary gap is bigger. The Hawks won't have the $41 million you quoted but only $19 million of functional room. currently they have no room.

I am well aware of that. 

[thecampster]

and as Jayhawk said, you can't trade a player with an open option.

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Does anyone have this detail? I been looking for it for months. It's not listed in the CBA as well.

 

We can still do this trade without Dedmon or Moose. The issue is, we will need to free up 7.5 million before June 30th to sign sign our draft picks which dont have a cap hold till June 30th. If Dedmon opts in, we need to trade him for cap space. If he opts out. He does it for us. Of course, Cleveland and Morris can be cut instantly. Taylor contract owes him 30k if not cut directly after the draft June 22th. 

So excluding Dedmon is right but he either needs to be moved or opt out if this deal happens before June 30th before the new CBA takes official on July 1st.

Section 88 of the CBAFAQ

88. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?

A "no-trade" clause can be negotiated into an individual contract if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the immediately prior four seasons -- for example, Horace Grant got a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Very few players actually have one of these no-trade provisions. Otherwise, individually negotiated contracts may not contain no-trade clauses. The no-trade clause prevents the team from making a trade involving the player without the player's consent.

In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:

• For two months after receiving the player in trade or claiming him off waivers, if the player's salary is aggregated with the salaries of other players. However, the team is free to trade the player either by himself (not packaged with other players), or without combining his salary with other salaries to acquire a more expensive player, immediately. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 75.)
• When the trading deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.
• For three months or until December 15th of that season (whichever is later) after signing a contract as a free agent. This obviously does not apply to the trade completing a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 79). Interestingly, however, it is unclear whether this rule prevents a player who has been signed-and-traded from being traded again prior to three months/December 15 (see question number 83).
• For 30 days after signing as a draft pick.
• Without the player's consent when the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, the team loses its Larry Bird/Early Bird rights, and the player is considered a Non-Bird free agent. Note: when there is an option year involved, they can get around this regulation by invoking the option prior to the trade.
• For one year after exercising the right of first refusal to keep a restricted free agent (however, the player can consent to a trade to any team except the team that tried to sign him).
• After claiming a player on waivers, for 30 days if the player was claimed during a season, or until the first day of the next season if the player was claimed during the offseason.
• A team cannot reacquire a player they traded away during that season (a season being July 1 - June 30) unless the player has been waived. Note: this does not apply to draft picks. If a team trades a player's draft rights, they can reacquire the player during the same season.
• In the special case of players waived through the amnesty provision (see question number 18), the player cannot be reacquired for the length of the terminated contract.
• A team cannot acquire players when they do not have room on their 15-man roster, even if they intend to waive an incoming player immediately. For example, a team with 14 players cannot trade one player for three, while simultaneously waiving an incoming player to remain at 15 players. Note: it is possible to work around this restriction by waiving a current player, executing the trade, waiving one of the incoming players, and then re-signing the original player.

[thecampster]

So to be clear, we cannot include Moose or Dedmon because we no longer own their rights....they do. Once they opt in, we own their rights if they don't, they do..they are in limbo.

 

You can trade players you own the rights to after a contract grace period. Our season ended, they are on options, their rights are their own.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

So to be clear, we cannot include Moose or Dedmon because we no longer own their rights....they do. Once they opt in, we own their rights if they don't, they do..they are in limbo.

 

You can trade players you own the rights to after a contract grace period. Our season ended, they are on options, their rights are their own.

Thanks @thecampster and @JayBirdHawk

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Thanks @thecampster and @JayBirdHawk