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sillent

THERE IS STILL HOPE!

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No matter if Trae continues to play or shoot horrible in the Summer League or starts to turn it around these games are not a representation of what we'll see when the real games start. The players that will be playing with Trae at the start of the season will possibly be...

 

Dennis (who will step up his play friendly not so friendly competition) 

Dorsey (poor man's Harden after 2 more yrs??)

Huerter (hopefully will come in gunning)

Kent (I'd rather trade him but he's probably going to play alot better on offense because of all our floor spacers and defense because he's on of the most capable)

Bembry (If he can stay healthy will have a breakout season being such a sleeper)

Adams (looks more like Trae than Trae right now)

Prince (will prove to be a bonafide starter if not more)

Collins (Is a budding 

Spellman (looks like he will be better than Draymond in my opinion)

Muscala (will Pierce bring the best out of him?? Either way decent at almost everything good at almost.. ok I'll stop there)

Dedmon (playing Defense and Offense? That's gonna be fun!)

Plumlee (should be lob city for him and hopefully more impactful on rebounding/defense)

 

Of course this is the most optimistic hope for everyone on the team playing at their best. Even if that's not the case we still have multiple players that can spread the floor. Almost every target is a threat to score and will make Trae look great and vice versa. Trae's shot will come and go and come again than hopefully not go too much. His play making abilities with all of our floor spacers will make him look great because he's not a selfish player. The pressure will be taken off him alot with Prince, Dorsey, Muscala, Dedmon, (hopefully) Huerter/Spellman/Adams(1/2Czn) , Bembry, (possibly) Dennis/Bazemore/Collins to space the floor with. Of course they all will have their ups and downs but that's alot of options! That doesn't even include Plumlee as a lob target as well as others.   

 

The main thing that makes the Warriors so good is that have gunners/pace and space shooters. Curry by himself didn't really make that big of a splash( because of injuries/etc) until Klay came along to help him space the floor. Draymond set the tone on toughness. Of course Kevin came in and made them great! Cousins playing with them is going to make them ridiculous but that's what winning and having a great culture does. 

 

Taking a deep look at our squad at its best and as a whole we look in line to become a good team sooner than later. Trae may be worthy of the #5 by default because his teammates will make him look good and vice versa. Best case scenerio theoretically(I know tankers won't know part in hearing this) is we are fighting for a seed in the playoffs in a weak but possibly better than expected East. I definitely expect alot of growing pains but overall at least currently on paper we look like sleepers that might be alot better than most expect.

 

I know I know I'm dreaming. Or am I? We still have a free agency to complete our roster and the team currently constructed looks pretty deep. We're still going to need alot of teaching on the defensive end but hopefully we have the right coach for the job. We have possibly 7/8 players that should be or are part of our core Collins, Prince, Dorsey, Spellman, Bembry, Huerter,  Trae??, Dennis?? In a perfect world they would be a great 1/2 punch at the guard position playing at their best level. How many players do we need and if they are top tier eventually we are going to have to pay some if not most of these players top tier money. Currently as individuals none of our players put much fear into the league as far as having star/superstar status. Collectively all of our players can run, spread the floor, drive/get shots inside. Some are more capable of playing defense than others but as a unit we look like a playoff team in progress. We can get great contracts on all of our players because of that but some of our players might blossom quicker than expected.

 

I believe instead of tanking and picking more players in the lottery (or trading back) we need to just play. Give our best effort and try to create a winning culture. None of our players like to lose but if we do so be it but I hope we don't give it away. We have alot of talent now though and if we don't put forth our best effort I believe more players than Dennis will start to get disgruntled. That would not be a good trend for a team trying to prove great players should play here. We struggle with that enough. Honestly as the team currently constructed gels and gets better (way better), they could be a superstar away from being a real contender. 

I expect  2019/2020 season to be the real season when we start to turn things around. Although I wouldn't be surprised if we have enough offensive firepower now to put a scare in alot of teams and let them know we're coming.

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4 hours ago, sillent said:

I expect  2019/2020 season to be the real season when we start to turn things around.

This pains me to say because I've been arguably among the most consistently optimistic fans on this board for much of my adult life.

I think we'll be worse this year than last.

Last year, Schlenk could sign a Dedmon and an Illy because it was not yet readily understood the depths of tanking he was willing to go to. This season not even talent at their level is going to be attracted to come to ATL, and Schlenk sure ain't going to be tempting anyone with big money offers either. Last year, Schlenk could add a Belinelli as fallout from the Dwight trade, but this year, there will be no such supplements to the roster coming. The only veteran "improvements" to this roster, if any, will come as a result of the Colonel selling one year of cap space for draft picks and bad contracts... which, by definition, shouldn't get anyone excited about the talent those contracts would add to the roster.

This is going to be painful to watch. Super painful. I don't see any way of sugar coating it.

The major news of this off-season for me will be to see if Schlenk begins accumulating 2020 draft picks. If so, then I will take that to be an indictment of what he thinks of Prince and Bembry, and will start preparing to witness at least one more season of hibernation beyond what I'd anticipated/hoped.

 

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Yeah...just don't see Schlenk bringing in real quality unless it involves a trade to shed painful salary. Three guys come to mind to send out because of the money owed but don't think anyone will move until probably the trade deadline, if then. 

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Trae should be destroying the summer league period.  Make all the excuses you want but he is basically the 3rd pick in the draft and supposedly way more talented than most undrafted free agent players he is competing against.  No faith in this GM.  

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4 hours ago, sturt said:

This pains me to say because I've been arguably among the most consistently optimistic fans on this board for much of my adult life.

I think we'll be worse this year than last.

Last year, Schlenk could sign a Dedmon and an Illy because it was not yet readily understood the depths of tanking he was willing to go to. This season not even talent at their level is going to be attracted to come to ATL, and Schlenk sure ain't going to be tempting anyone with big money offers either. Last year, Schlenk could add a Belinelli as fallout from the Dwight trade, but this year, there will be no such supplements to the roster coming. The only veteran "improvements" to this roster, if any, will come as a result of the Colonel selling one year of cap space for draft picks and bad contracts... which, by definition, shouldn't get anyone excited about the talent those contracts would add to the roster.

This is going to be painful to watch. Super painful. I don't see any way of sugar coating it.

The major news of this off-season for me will be to see if Schlenk begins accumulating 2020 draft picks. If so, then I will take that to be an indictment of what he thinks of Prince and Bembry, and will start preparing to witness at least one more season of hibernation beyond what I'd anticipated/hoped.

 

To add to that, the Hawks have spent 2 years renovating their arena which will only be capacity on opening night or when other stars are in town.  Of course with that comes the entire arena cheering for the otter team.  At least the Migos will be there, don't know who else will be.   Probably won't be filling the arena for 4 to 5 years with Hawks fans.

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2 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Trae should be destroying the summer league period.  Make all the excuses you want but he is basically the 3rd pick in the draft and supposedly way more talented than most undrafted free agent players he is competing against.  No faith in this GM.  

If that is the case, the entire draft was terrible, because none of these rookies are "destroying" summer league.  If you are basing your opinion off that, then the most impressive rookie in summer league right now is Mikal Bridges, which he should be because he's the most developed rookie of the guys taken at the top of the draft.

Ayton has not looked good.  Bagley has been terrible.  Doncic has not played.  Jackson had a great opening game and has been ho hum since then.  Young has not looked good.  Bamba looked OK.  I don't think Carter Jr. has played yet.  Sexton was not good.  I don't know about Knox other than Fizdale says he will play him as a big shooting guard in big sets (glad we did not hire him now).  

If you expected an immediate impact from any of these 18-20 year old one and done prospects, then you had unrealistic expectations.  There is going to be, at the very least, a 2-3 year learning curve for all of them.  None of these guys know how to play.  They all have strengths and weaknesses that will need to be built around and hidden.  

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2 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Trae should be destroying the summer league period.  Make all the excuses you want but he is basically the 3rd pick in the draft and supposedly way more talented than most undrafted free agent players he is competing against.  No faith in this GM.  

So, you've never ever ever seen a superior shooter go into a slump?

C'mon.

I'm pessimistic about this season, but by no no no no no means am I judging ANY player on the basis of their SL performance, period.

These guys haven't played competitively in months. Some of them naturally are going to look better and look worse than they're going to prove to be over a longer series of games, let alone a whole season.

Some do this every SL... get hyped about Player X, and start moping about Player Y... and there are no solid proven irrefutable correlations to be had between SL performance and future success.

When Trae starts hitting shots, and that will happen based on history, he's going to be a force on the offensive end because he's also has such good court vision... his question marks are all on the defensive end.

And I hate that people keep putting me in the position of defending Schlenk because I definitely have had heartburn caused by some of his decisions, but you're not going to find me arguing against history... if he can do anything well, his calling card is talent evaluation... he didn't win the GM job from a Cracker Jack prize.

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I'm sure KB is a great guy in real life. He and I have agreed over the years more than we've disagreed, I'm pretty sure.

But he has so very much proven now that his ego is so completely embedded in the failure of the Atlanta Hawks for the foreseeable future, I'm just having to reluctantly draw a line. From here on, I'm not even going to engage. (Yes, I know I'm not the first. But I really didn't want to get to this place.)

From where I sit, it seems to be all negativity and pessimism as a matter of ego satisfaction. It's become who he is, not just a reasoned conclusion the person has come to. That's NOT to say he doesn't make some reasonable points. It is to say that when those reasonable points are given reasonable counterpoints, he just circles back and ignores the counterpoint or starts playing rhetorical whack-a-mole/dodgeball, shifting to other tangents over there to see if he can score points in place of the particular point being discussed over here. And then, apart from any of that, he just seems to go from thread to thread seeking out some way to reinforce his position, shining any negative/pessimistic light he can.

*sigh*

I dearly hope that we contend for a championship in 2020 because I don't see him reversing himself if it takes us until 2022 to do so, and he's never going to pull out of this.

 

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2 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'm sure KB is a great guy in real life. He and I have agreed over the years more than we've disagreed, I'm pretty sure.

But he has so very much proven now that his ego is so completely embedded in the failure of the Atlanta Hawks for the foreseeable future, I'm just having to reluctantly draw a line. From here on, I'm not even going to engage. (Yes, I know I'm not the first. But I really didn't want to get to this place.)

From where I sit, it seems to be all negativity and pessimism as a matter of ego satisfaction. It's become who he is, not just a reasoned conclusion the person has come to. That's NOT to say he doesn't make some reasonable points. It is to say that when those reasonable points are given reasonable counterpoints, he just circles back and ignores the counterpoint or starts playing rhetorical whack-a-mole/dodgeball, shifting to other tangents over there to see if he can score points in place of the particular point being discussed over here. And then, he apart from any of that, he just seems to go from thread to thread seeking out some way to reinforce his position, shining any negative/pessimistic light he can.

*sigh*

I dearly hope that we contend for a championship in 2020 because I don't see him reversing himself if it takes us until 2022 to do so, and he's never going to pull out of this.

 

He has eased up a little.  Before it was unbearable.

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11 hours ago, sillent said:

No matter if Trae continues to play or shoot horrible in the Summer League or starts to turn it around these games are not a representation of what we'll see when the real games start. The players that will be playing with Trae at the start of the season will possibly be...

 

Dennis (who will step up his play friendly not so friendly competition) 

Dorsey (poor man's Harden after 2 more yrs??)

Huerter (hopefully will come in gunning)

Kent (I'd rather trade him but he's probably going to play alot better on offense because of all our floor spacers and defense because he's on of the most capable)

Bembry (If he can stay healthy will have a breakout season being such a sleeper)

Adams (looks more like Trae than Trae right now)

Prince (will prove to be a bonafide starter if not more)

Collins (Is a budding 

Spellman (looks like he will be better than Draymond in my opinion)

Muscala (will Pierce bring the best out of him?? Either way decent at almost everything good at almost.. ok I'll stop there)

Dedmon (playing Defense and Offense? That's gonna be fun!)

Plumlee (should be lob city for him and hopefully more impactful on rebounding/defense)

 

Of course this is the most optimistic hope for everyone on the team playing at their best. Even if that's not the case we still have multiple players that can spread the floor. Almost every target is a threat to score and will make Trae look great and vice versa. Trae's shot will come and go and come again than hopefully not go too much. His play making abilities with all of our floor spacers will make him look great because he's not a selfish player. The pressure will be taken off him alot with Prince, Dorsey, Muscala, Dedmon, (hopefully) Huerter/Spellman/Adams(1/2Czn) , Bembry, (possibly) Dennis/Bazemore/Collins to space the floor with. Of course they all will have their ups and downs but that's alot of options! That doesn't even include Plumlee as a lob target as well as others.   

 

The main thing that makes the Warriors so good is that have gunners/pace and space shooters. Curry by himself didn't really make that big of a splash( because of injuries/etc) until Klay came along to help him space the floor. Draymond set the tone on toughness. Of course Kevin came in and made them great! Cousins playing with them is going to make them ridiculous but that's what winning and having a great culture does. 

 

Taking a deep look at our squad at its best and as a whole we look in line to become a good team sooner than later. Trae may be worthy of the #5 by default because his teammates will make him look good and vice versa. Best case scenerio theoretically(I know tankers won't know part in hearing this) is we are fighting for a seed in the playoffs in a weak but possibly better than expected East. I definitely expect alot of growing pains but overall at least currently on paper we look like sleepers that might be alot better than most expect.

 

I know I know I'm dreaming. Or am I? We still have a free agency to complete our roster and the team currently constructed looks pretty deep. We're still going to need alot of teaching on the defensive end but hopefully we have the right coach for the job. We have possibly 7/8 players that should be or are part of our core Collins, Prince, Dorsey, Spellman, Bembry, Huerter,  Trae??, Dennis?? In a perfect world they would be a great 1/2 punch at the guard position playing at their best level. How many players do we need and if they are top tier eventually we are going to have to pay some if not most of these players top tier money. Currently as individuals none of our players put much fear into the league as far as having star/superstar status. Collectively all of our players can run, spread the floor, drive/get shots inside. Some are more capable of playing defense than others but as a unit we look like a playoff team in progress. We can get great contracts on all of our players because of that but some of our players might blossom quicker than expected.

 

I believe instead of tanking and picking more players in the lottery (or trading back) we need to just play. Give our best effort and try to create a winning culture. None of our players like to lose but if we do so be it but I hope we don't give it away. We have alot of talent now though and if we don't put forth our best effort I believe more players than Dennis will start to get disgruntled. That would not be a good trend for a team trying to prove great players should play here. We struggle with that enough. Honestly as the team currently constructed gels and gets better (way better), they could be a superstar away from being a real contender. 

I expect  2019/2020 season to be the real season when we start to turn things around. Although I wouldn't be surprised if we have enough offensive firepower now to put a scare in alot of teams and let them know we're coming.

Wow. You did a damn good job of describing what I see as the more favorable outcome of our rebuild. I think this team as currently constructed could win just as many games, if not a few more, next season. Our bench just got a shot in the arm at backup PG, backup SG, and backup big. Bembry comes back to add to the rotation. We didn’t really lose anything in comparison to last seasons team. We still have 2 potential lottery picks to improve the team. With a natural improvement coming from experience, this team could win 40-42 games by 2019-20. They’ll be a playoff team with good young talent and in position to offer 2 superstars big contracts to push this team to contender status. I think this all hinges on Pierces ability to have this team playing good team defense and living up to his reputation as a good defensive coach. 

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I love the optimism, however if we still had Coach Bud I'd be 100% on board with this assesment. And that's not because I think Bud is an all world Coach but more so because I've seen what he can do, the returning players and their understanding of his system etc.

Unfortunately I have no idea what Coach Pierce and his band of merry men can do. 

The record will determine if this is all about developing Trae and how low we want our 2019 lottery pick to be.

Then again, all this us moot if Dennis, Baze, Dedmon, Muscala are all moved before the start of the season or at the deadline.

 

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6 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

Trae should be destroying the summer league period.  Make all the excuses you want but he is basically the 3rd pick in the draft and supposedly way more talented than most undrafted free agent players he is competing against.  No faith in this GM.  

Trae was drafted for upside. Most of these guys are 3/4 yr college players, or 2nd/3rd yr NBA players. So no he shouldnt be destroying SL. Hell, has any draftee been "destroying" SL? Give him time. Good lord..If he busts, he busts, but now is waaaay to early to for that nonsense..

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