What if....

[KB21]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

If you think Baze will be our best player this year, you should be predicting less than 30 wins even if you are optimistic.

I like Baze, but he's an 8th or 9th man on a good team.  That's the problem with the Hawks.  None of the veterans on this team are starting caliber players on a good basketball team.  

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

If you think Baze will be our best player this year, you should be predicting less than 30 wins even if you are optimistic.

I'm just refuting the poster's assertion that there are no other players on the team worth anything except Prince and Collins.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

I like Baze, but he's an 8th or 9th man on a good team.  That's the problem with the Hawks.  None of the veterans on this team are starting caliber players on a good basketball team.  

So Lin has never started on a winning team.  Dedmon never started on a winning team? Really?  Dude...Your post are becoming really bad.

[AHF]

Just now, KB21 said:

I like Baze, but he's an 8th or 9th man on a good team.  That's the problem with the Hawks.  None of the veterans on this team are starting caliber players on a good basketball team.  

Agreed.  They are at best the weak link on a really good team ala Zaza with GS or Delladouche with Cleveland.  Several can be very productive role players but they aren’t cornerstones for any team worth its salt.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Lin has never started on a winning team.  Dedmon never started on a winning team? Really?  Dude...Your post are becoming really bad.

Pretty much, yeah.  Dedmon has never been a full time starter, period.  

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Lin has never started on a winning team.  Dedmon never started on a winning team? Really?  Dude...Your post are becoming really bad.

They have a total of one season between them where they started 40 or more games and that was Lin in 2012-13.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Pretty much, yeah.  Dedmon has never been a full time starter, period.  

So Baze wasn't a full time starter on the 49 win Hawk team?

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Baze wasn't a full time starter on the 49 win Hawk team?

He can be a weak link starter on a good team as can Dedmon.  Will Purdue started on a championship team.  But if he is your third best starter you are a lottery squad.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

He can be a weak link starter on a good team as can Dedmon.

Look guys...No one is claiming that Baze, Lin, or Dedmon are starters on a championship caliber team.  Just saying that the other extreme is unlikely.  In other words, having them as starters on a team guarantees an extremely unsuccessful season.

[hazer]

12 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Like I said before...Our top 8-9 guys with the exception of Young have plenty of NBA experience so I don't get the argument that we will lose because of youth.  Like GM said, we will lose because of injury not youth.  Posters that think that Hueter and Spellman will get minutes are nuts.  The only mayor minutes they will receive will be in Erie.  This team should will 41 games but because of these nagging injuries, they may fall short of that win total.

Our best players will be Young, Prince, and Collins. I’ll let you calculate their age and experience ??

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Look guys...No one is claiming that Baze, Lin, or Dedmon are starters on a championship caliber team.  Just saying that the other extreme is unlikely.  In other words, having them as starters on a team guarantees an extremely unsuccessful season.

Someone said Baze was our best player last year and I noted that this would be doom for any team.  Conversely, I said good teams could have a starter like him on them where he is clearly below most of the much better starters.  Also said the best case scenario for all of those guys is having quality depth with Baze, Lin and Dedmon as reserves / role players.

[hazer]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Lin has never started on a winning team.  Dedmon never started on a winning team? Really?  Dude...Your post are becoming really bad.

His posts have been REALLY bad for a very long time.

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, hazer said:

His posts have been REALLY bad for a very long time.

Yeah, because I don't toe the company line and bow down to the shrine of intentional losing, also know as tanking.  

[hazer]

Just now, KB21 said:

Yeah, because I don't toe the company line and bow down to the shrine of intentional losing, also know as tanking.  

Yep, that’s the reason ?

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, hazer said:

Our best players will be Young, Prince, and Collins. I’ll let you calculate their age and experience ??

Our most promising players are the players listed above.  They have not demonstrated the skill level of say a player like Jeremy Lin.  Prince can shoot but not much else.  John can use his athleticism to finish in the paint but not much else yet.  Young has a lot of skill already but has to be more consistent  Lin is that savvy Vet that know how to run an offense better.  It was on full display in our last preseason game where he was getting in to the lane for an easy shots or making the right play instead of just jacking up and 30 foot shots a 1/3 of the time

[AHF]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Our most promising players are the players listed above.  They have not demonstrated the skill level of a say a play like Jeremy Lin.  Prince can shoot but not much else.  John can use his athleticism to finish in the paint but not much else yet.  Young has a lot of skill already but has to be more consistent  Lin is that savvy Vet that know how to run an offense better.  It was on full display in our last preseason game where he was getting in to the lane for an easy shots or making the right play instead of just jacking up and 30 foot shots a 1/3 of the time

Collins had the best numbers of anyone on our squad last year by a long shot.

[hazer]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Our most promising players are the players listed above.  They have not demonstrated the skill level of a say a play like Jeremy Lin.  Prince can shoot but not much else.  John can use his athleticism to finish in the paint but not much else yet.  Young has a lot of skill already but has to be more consistent  Lin is that savvy Vet that know how to run an offense better.  It was on full display in our last preseason game where he was getting in to the lane for an easy shots or making the right play instead of just jacking up and 30 foot shots a 1/3 of the time

Lin, Carter, Baze are all savvy players I like. They won’t be our best players though.

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

Collins had the best numbers of anyone on our squad last year by a long shot.

Yeah but his skills are limited...He can't put the ball on the floor.  Not an above average shooter from the out side and not a great passer.  Defense isn't even his strong suit.  His strength is his athleticism in the paint which skew the number because he took full advantage of his strengths while limiting his exposure to his weakness

2 minutes ago, hazer said:

Lin, Carter, Baze are all savvy players I like. They won’t be our best players though.

That's why I used the word potential

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, hazer said:

Yep, that’s the reason ?

Yes.  That is the reason.  I dare to challenge the notion that intentionally losing is acceptable as a team building strategy. 

[marco102]

50 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Our most promising players are the players listed above.  They have not demonstrated the skill level of say a player like Jeremy Lin.  Prince can shoot but not much else.  John can use his athleticism to finish in the paint but not much else yet.  Young has a lot of skill already but has to be more consistent  Lin is that savvy Vet that know how to run an offense better.  It was on full display in our last preseason game where he was getting in to the lane for an easy shots or making the right play instead of just jacking up and 30 foot shots a 1/3 of the time

I have tons of problems with this comments.

1.  The offense ran MUCH better in the last preaseason game with Trae at the point instead of Jeremy Lin or did you miss the 3rd and 4th quarters.  Trae wasn't just jacking up 30 ft shots or he wouldn't have had 5 assists.   Lin is a quality player. I will not take anything away from him, but Trae was pretty darn consistent the last few preaseason games.  Which , quite frankly, surprised me.

2. Prince is doing more than shooting.  He improved his rebounding and his assists have gone up this preseason.  I have to agree that his defense needs to improve.   

3. John Collins improved ALOT from last season.  He was taking people off the dribble in the first preseason game which was a pleasure to see.  He also is actually better at defense than you are saying. He's a very good positional defensive player.  His outside shooting is a work in progress, but it looked to be improved in summer league and the first preseason game.  He rebounds and is super efficient on offense. 

All in all, I don't get where you are coming from with these comments.  Jeremy Lin did NOT looked better than Trae running the team this preseason.