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More positivity from the cheering squad


Peoriabird

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These guys are convinced that this team is worst than last year's team.  They are convinced we don't have any veteran players on the team.  They are convinced that every productive player will be sold.  They are convince that Lloyd Pierce can't coach.   These dudes are going out of their way to bash this team!  The question is why?

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/8/24/17766672/atlanta-hawks-roundtable-nba-standings-projections-way-too-early

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  • Brad Rowland - 25-57. I don’t love making pronouncements this early and this could be subject to change if something weird happens from an injury or trade perspective. Still, this represents something of a hedge in that I expect the Hawks to trade at least one of the veterans (Bazemore, Lin, Dedmon) and lean heavily into a future-facing mode by the time March and April arrive. On talent, this team is a bit better than a 25-win projection would indicate but there is incentive to sink to the bottom based on draft position and there absolutely will be growing pains associated with handing the ball to a 19-year-old rookie point guard.
  • Glen Willis - 20-62. They just don’t have enough defenders to put many good many (any?) good defensive lineups on the court. I was highest among the PTH writers last year because I felt that Schlenk just gave his head coach too many veterans with which to work. Had they not encountered so many injury, especially at the center position, I think they would won perhaps five more games. This season, Lloyd Pierce doesn’t have the leverage to demand more veterans. And clearly expectations were set during the interview process. So there is more buy in at the beginning of this season to play young players all season. And that means bad defensive lineups all season.
  • Graham Chapple- Ah...This is always fun… We all know what the Hawks are trying to do and the roster is even younger this year with a first-year coach...it’s going to be a rough season. Trae Young and John Collins will excite and I’ll be very surprised if the surpass 27 wins. 24-58 for me.
  • Greg Willis - 29-53. I actually expect them to improve their win total from last season and finish just shy of 30 wins. I really believe last year was a bit of a lame duck season for both Budenholzer and Schröder. This team is very, very young and will struggle. But, I expect Coach Pierce will have this team playing hard night in and night out and will not tolerate anything less. Some Hawks fans will scream as ping pong balls slip away, but establishing his culture from the very beginning is critical to Pierce’s long term success.
  • Jeff Siegel - 23-59. With all the young players on the roster and the clear prerogative Schlenk has toward developing those guys, this team is nowhere near a competitive level in a league that saw almost all of its worst teams get significantly better.
  • Rashad Milligan - 19-63. The Hawks won 24 games last season. Are they better than last season’s team? Well, we’ve currently seen none of Kevin Huerter, we don’t know if we can trust to see Bembry for more than two months at a time, we still don’t know if Taurean Prince can put together a month of consistent quality play together, there is a first-year head coach at the helm and with half of the core on the west coast playing against G-League talent, the team still struggled to win ball games. So in a long-winded explanation, no. As of now, pre-Bazemore trade, this team is not better than last season’s team.
  • Sam Meredith - 25-57. Atlanta is the worst team in the league right now on paper with a rookie head coach at the helm. Winning shouldn’t be the main focus this season anyways, but instead this team just needs to focus on figuring out their identity along with the system they want to utilize. Showcase your veterans on one-year deals and try to get value at the trade deadline.
  • Josh Lane - 20-62. Lloyd Pierce has honestly not proven anything so I cannot assume that his coaching will steal any wins for this team. Outside of that, we will depending on a rookie as our playmaker and supporting cast of other young guys.
  • Xavier Cooper - 22-60. With a new head coach and team with only two guys over the age of 31 things are not looking good. This season will be a tryout year. Players will want to win but they’ll also want to showcase their talents. This might be more of a priority for them which is completely understandable. The Atlanta Hawks have a team full of young guys just trying to find their way in the NBA. They know a NBA finals appearance is close to impossible.
  • Zach Hood - 26-56. There’s a lot of talent on this roster, but the fact is that the majority of it is simply not ready to compete at a high level in the NBA. If the club was centered on purely winning, I might say 32 or 34 wins, but I expect some of the veteran pieces to be dealt off by early 2019. Once the Hawks are so far out of the race, they will be more focused on keeping the important guys healthy than winning, so somewhere in the 23-27 win range makes the most sense to me.

 

 

 

 

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Why is there such a disconnect between the Peachtree hoop gang and reality?  The article below says the total opposite of what most of those guys are claiming.   The Hawks brought Vince Carter in specifically to be a veteran presence.

 

 

The Hawks had a specific criteria for the player who would be the final piece of a young, rebuilding roster.

They went old school to get him.

The Hawks agreed to terms on a one-year, $2.4 million contract with Vince Carter last month. On Friday, they officially signed the veteran who will enter is 21st season in the NBA. The 41-year old will take the last roster spot.

The Hawks wanted a veteran that its core of young players could watch, listen and learn. Carter is just fine with that job description.

“Let them see me and let them see how annoying I can be, but in a good way,” Carter said during an introductory press conference. “I’m going to stay in their ear. At least you know at any time throughout the year, whether it’s practice games, any situation, they will have me to fall back on. Or I’ll come up to them and help them out any way I can.”

 

Them dudes have an agenda!  The question is what is it?

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:biggrin:

Greg Willis makes the most sense here.  Over and over, Hawks fans are told how terrible and untalented the Atlanta roster is.  They have no veteran players and they are going to trade them away.  Question:  How does this work?  How can we have no veteran players AND are going to trade them all away?

Another thing.  All these "experts" can't believe that Lloyd Pierce has any idea about what he's doing.  We all know that he's a rookie, but, come on man!

Every season, and this one is no exception, we Hawk fans are told how that every team in the NBA has improved since last season.  That is, everyone except Atlanta, which will be much worse than they were last season.

Apparently, no one believes that Trae will make the grade and that Jeremy Lin, if he is able to play, will soon be traded.  As will Dedmon and Bazemore.  So, they expect the Hawks to struggle mightily. 

With all this great, encouraging thinking, what are we to do?  We may be asking, as Casey Stengle did when he was the coach of the NY Mets in their 1st season: "Does any one here have any idea of how to play this game?"

??????

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17 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

:biggrin:

Greg Willis makes the most sense here.  Over and over, Hawks fans are told how terrible and untalented the Atlanta roster is.  They have no veteran players and they are going to trade them away.  Question:  How does this work?  How can we have no veteran players AND are going to trade them all away?

Another thing.  All these "experts" can't believe that Lloyd Pierce has any idea about what he's doing.  We all know that he's a rookie, but, come on man!

Every season, and this one is no exception, we Hawk fans are told how that every team in the NBA has improved since last season.  That is, everyone except Atlanta, which will be much worse than they were last season.

Apparently, no one believes that Trae will make the grade and that Jeremy Lin, if he is able to play, will soon be traded.  As will Dedmon and Bazemore.  So, they expect the Hawks to struggle mightily. 

With all this great, encouraging thinking, what are we to do?  We may be asking, as Casey Stengle did when he was the coach of the NY Mets in their 1st season: "Does any one here have any idea of how to play this game?"

??????

I mean this is getting ridiculous!  I've never been in a city where the job of the media is to destroy the very product that sustains them.    Note to Brad...If you create fan disinterest in the team you happen to be covering as a journalist then guess what, your existence as the team's journalist becomes unnecessary Brad Rowland!  Translation...Find another job please!

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3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

These guys are convinced that this team is worst than last year's team.  They are convinced we don't have any veteran players on the team.  They are convinced that every productive player will be sold.  They are convince that Lloyd Pierce can't coach.   These dudes are going out of their way to bash this team!  The question is why?

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/8/24/17766672/atlanta-hawks-roundtable-nba-standings-projections-way-too-early

 

The common theme in NBA circles is Bud is on another level as a coach. He gets credit for 1/2 the wins last year. This reaction is directly related to Pierce being a rookie coach and not being Bud.

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The common theme in NBA circles is Bud is on another level as a coach. He gets credit for 1/2 the wins last year. This reaction is directly related to Pierce being a rookie coach and not being Bud.

That's funny considering I'd blame his personnel decisions for a lot of our losses. He was making a lot of decisions that wouldn't make sense if we were trying to win games.
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2 hours ago, nathan2331 said:
3 hours ago, thecampster said:
The common theme in NBA circles is Bud is on another level as a coach. He gets credit for 1/2 the wins last year. This reaction is directly related to Pierce being a rookie coach and not being Bud.

 

That's funny considering I'd blame his personnel decisions for a lot of our losses. He was making a lot of decisions that wouldn't make sense if we were trying to win games.

Eggxactly!!! I don't know why more do see Bud's terrible use of personnel!

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Atlanta has to look like a h-ll hole for players like Prince who has worked very hard on his game this off season but yet still is harshly judged based on last season.  It has to be a H-ll hole for the incoming rookies who are constantly told that this team isn't trying to win and will get rid of players that contribute to winning unnecessarily.  I know that I would neither want to play in a city like this or would want to get the h-ll out of this toxic environment where every article written is about losing and no expectation of winning or worse, trying to lose.  This off season has worn me down as a fan so I can only imagine what it has done to the players on this team. 

This front office needs to challenge the negative press to re-establish a belief in the organization which is what winning organizations do.  Al Davis turn the Raiders around by promoting an expectation of excellence.  This current front office could learn something from those old Raiders.  Lord Pierce if you are listening...Do more interviews and talk up your team.  Obviously, the media isn't interested in promoting you or your young talent!

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I must be missing something.  Is the opposing narrative that the team just wanted to rebuild for a season and is now poised to stop messing around and make a run at the championship with this year's draft crop being the missing piece?  Because if that's the narrative then yes, any analysis that runs contrary to that no matter how well reasoned will be met with lols.

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PG - Young

G - Baze

F - Prince

PF - Collins

C - Dedmon

 

I think we can all agree that this will be our starting lineup, right? ( Unlless people think that Jeremy Lin will be the opening day starter ).

If that's the case, do any of you see that lineup as being a group that can be decent on defense?  

Hawks were 21st in defense last year - 26th on offense.

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1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

PG - Young

G - Baze

F - Prince

PF - Collins

C - Dedmon

 

I think we can all agree that this will be our starting lineup, right? ( Unlless people think that Jeremy Lin will be the opening day starter ).

If that's the case, do any of you see that lineup as being a group that can be decent on defense?  

Hawks were 21st in defense last year - 26th on offense.

Honestly outside of Trae and perhaps Collins ...yes I can see that lineup being ABLE to be pretty solid  on defense. 

Baze - to me is already a good solid defender at SG

Prince - has shown plenty of sparks that he can be a lockdown man, pierce need to get it out of him more consistently and that’s the challenge he will face....the consistent effort.

Dedmon - is a good defensive center, if he were allowed full time starter minutes he would show this even more consistently.

 

now Collins and Trae that’s the two players I’d say are the question marks but you know what for Trae if summer league means anything to you as far as effort goes, Trae has shown he will certainly put the effort in! And real effort goes a looonnngggg way even if that player may not be the most gifted defender (korver).

Collins on the other hand to me Collins has the potential to be a good defender too (and I realize I’m bias to a certain extent but I’m giving my real personal analysis)...he can move his feet on the switches onto guards, play in space because he do have the quickness, his weak side blocking can be really good at times...I think Collins biggest flaw is his defensive awareness and also his strength. His strength will increase over time so no worries. It’s like he has the athleticism, the skills he need in terms of being able to move well enough to disturb his opponents but the intellectual part just ain’t fully there yet which is fine cause he was a rookie last year...the keyword is yet because I believe he will get there. 

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8 hours ago, MaceCase said:

I must be missing something.  Is the opposing narrative that the team just wanted to rebuild for a season and is now poised to stop messing around and make a run at the championship with this year's draft crop being the missing piece?  Because if that's the narrative then yes, any analysis that runs contrary to that no matter how well reasoned will be met with lols.

The narrative should be the same as any other team in the league.  The narrative in Dallas isn't we are playing to win the lottery even though they were worst than us last year.

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Greg Willis hits the nail on the head. Young talented players and coach trying very hard and winning somewhere in the 28-30 vicinity. Another Top 10 lottery pick (or 2, I see you Dallas), and possibly an 11-14 lottery pick from Cavs. Exciting team to watch.

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Lloyd Pierce, rookie head coach for the Atlanta Hawks, is said to be a teacher of defense.  So, the question becomes a 2 part: 1- Does the Hawk players on the roster have the ability to play defense?  2- Do the Hawk players have a high enough IQ to be able to learn to play defense? 

Naturally, all the above questions will depend on the ability of LP and his assistants ability to teach.

What do you think?  Can they?  Will they?

???

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6 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Lloyd Pierce, rookie head coach for the Atlanta Hawks, is said to be a teacher of defense.  So, the question becomes a 2 part: 1- Does the Hawk players on the roster have the ability to play defense?  2- Do the Hawk players have a high enough IQ to be able to learn to play defense? 

Naturally, all the above questions will depend on the ability of LP and his assistants ability to teach.

What do you think?  Can they?  Will they?

???

Even if they can, you are not going to see the results of the teaching this year.  It's going to take 2-3 years to get this group of young guys built up to an acceptable level from a defensive standpoint.  You are putting too much faith in rookies and young players playing above their current experience levels.  From an individual standpoint, this team does not have 5 good defenders on the entire team right now.  They can't field a strong defensive line up at all with the current roster.

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1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

The narrative should be the same as any other team in the league.  The narrative in Dallas isn't we are playing to win the lottery even though they were worst than us last year.

Uhm what?  Most projections have Dallas as at best a low 30 win team.  Everyone here and beyond project the pick that they owe the Hawks to be a high selection.  Even their GM didn't have enough confidence in their turnaround thus a top 5 protection when the lottery only gives you a shot at the top 3. 

Maybe their fans have a similar agenda in that they hope the 2nd year of their lotto pick, with the addition of another alleged ready made lotto pick, to go along with their highly expensive free agent acquisitions that they can sneak into the playoffs but that is as equally pie in the sky as railing against anyone who doesn't think that this current Hawks team will be anything but amongst the bottom of the NBA.

Here is the thing, this team is bad but here is the hope, it is bad by design with the eye towards potentially being good in the future.  The youth have the potential to be very good but expecting that growth in a single season is borderline ludicrous.  40 year or 30 year old coming off of major injury bench reserves are not the catalyst to change that.  Maybe perhaps if there wasn't an agenda to prove Bud as the singular reason for why the Hawks are bad people will be able to see that but I can already envision a parade being thrown if the team ties or wins one more game than the previous season.

 

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The make up of this roster:

I.  Four Rookies -- Trae Young, Kevin Huerter, Omari Spellman, and Jaylen Adams on a two way deal.  None of these guys are truly ready to compete at a winning level in the NBA.  Young and Huerter will play for development purposes.  Adams is on a two way.  Spellman may play because at this time, there is no legitimate back up power forward on this team.  When you have rookies contributing a lot of minutes, then that doesn't bode well for winning games.

II.  One Year of Experience -- John Collins, Tyler Dorsey, and Daniel Hamilton.  So, already, you have seven of your 17 roster spots tied up with guys who have 1 year or less of experience.  Of these three, only John Collins is a legitimate rotation player right now.

III.  Third to Sixth Year Players -- Taurean Prince, DeAndre Bembry, Alex Len, Justin Hamilton, and Alex Poythress.  I'll go ahead and say it.  When this category is filled with guys who are your rotation players, you have a better chance of being successful than if the majority of your rotation players are in the previous two categories.  The problem here is that out of these four players, only Prince and Len can be considered rotation players at this point, and you have Prince in a role that he is not currently suited to play in right now.  Justin Hamilton will probably be a rotation guy this year due to the lack of rotation guys on this team.

IV.  The Vets -- Kent Bazemore (6 years), Jeremy Lin (8 years), DeWayne Dedmon (6 years), Vince Carter (20 years), and Miles Plumlee (7 years).  These guys are what they are at this point.  Vince Carter WAS a star, but now he's a guy who will not be able to play on back to back nights and at best can give you 15 minutes off the bench.  Bazemore and Dedmon are starters, but neither player is a starter on a good team.  Jeremy Lin is an injury question, and Miles Plumlee is not a rotation player.  This is where this team is lacking the most, and this is the biggest reason why this team is going to be abjectly terrible in 2018-2019.  

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5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

PG - Young

G - Baze

F - Prince

PF - Collins

C - Dedmon

 

I think we can all agree that this will be our starting lineup, right? ( Unlless people think that Jeremy Lin will be the opening day starter ).

If that's the case, do any of you see that lineup as being a group that can be decent on defense?  

Hawks were 21st in defense last year - 26th on offense.

I don't necessarily agree.  I think Alex Len was brought in to compete for the Center spot and is a quality defender as well. Specifically, Len is far superior to Mike Muscala on defense (at the very least) and should be an upgrade defensively at the backup. Collins is a year older, a year bigger and should be "better" than he was last year at the PF spot.  If we assume Young is the day one starter (with Lin still hobbled), then the comparison is Young to Dennis and Lin to Delaney.  The problem with Dennis last year wasn't ability but effort. If you compare (size), Young and Dennis are the same size (height and weight). I don't see Young as a downgrade defensively based purely on potential effort.

Remembering Center PER is inflated due to rebounding.

Dennis' Opponent PER per 48 last year was 18.5 (which almost matched his own 19.7. You can't look at Lin's last year (one partial game) so going back to 16-17 Lin posted a 21.5 PER per 48 which his opponent posted 20.3 while playing for a terrible Nets team. The previous year on Charlotte he allowed his opponent only a 15.4.

Muscala allowed a 26,4 last year, Dedmon allowed a 19.4, Len allowed a 22.9 (on a terrible Suns second team).

Just an eyeball test shows Young really can't be worse defensively and Len/Dedmon are both an upgrade defensively over Muscala.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The make up of this roster:

I.  Four Rookies -- Trae Young, Kevin Huerter, Omari Spellman, and Jaylen Adams on a two way deal.  None of these guys are truly ready to compete at a winning level in the NBA.  Young and Huerter will play for development purposes.  Adams is on a two way.  Spellman may play because at this time, there is no legitimate back up power forward on this team.  When you have rookies contributing a lot of minutes, then that doesn't bode well for winning games.

II.  One Year of Experience -- John Collins, Tyler Dorsey, and Daniel Hamilton.  So, already, you have seven of your 17 roster spots tied up with guys who have 1 year or less of experience.  Of these three, only John Collins is a legitimate rotation player right now.

III.  Third to Sixth Year Players -- Taurean Prince, DeAndre Bembry, Alex Len, Justin Hamilton, and Alex Poythress.  I'll go ahead and say it.  When this category is filled with guys who are your rotation players, you have a better chance of being successful than if the majority of your rotation players are in the previous two categories.  The problem here is that out of these four players, only Prince and Len can be considered rotation players at this point, and you have Prince in a role that he is not currently suited to play in right now.  Justin Hamilton will probably be a rotation guy this year due to the lack of rotation guys on this team.

IV.  The Vets -- Kent Bazemore (6 years), Jeremy Lin (8 years), DeWayne Dedmon (6 years), Vince Carter (20 years), and Miles Plumlee (7 years).  These guys are what they are at this point.  Vince Carter WAS a star, but now he's a guy who will not be able to play on back to back nights and at best can give you 15 minutes off the bench.  Bazemore and Dedmon are starters, but neither player is a starter on a good team.  Jeremy Lin is an injury question, and Miles Plumlee is not a rotation player.  This is where this team is lacking the most, and this is the biggest reason why this team is going to be abjectly terrible in 2018-2019.  

 

To me, this is a realistic and fair analysis.

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