'Tis Done! Davis trade official!

[kg01]

37 minutes ago, thecampster said:

 

So having coached years and years of youth sports...let me answer this from a different perspective. In little league anything, there is always one kid that is so much better than anyone else he can win games on his own. He's bigger, more coordinated and ahead of everyone else skills wise because his dad just can stop throwing him ground balls, tossing him spot up bounce passes (see Trae and his dad) or teaching him hand techniques in the box. Its all about the dads in youth sports. When you get a dad who gets that its all about techniques and teaches them early, the kid's skill explode. When the dad recognizes his kid has a significant physical advantage (ie, gonna be 7 feet tall, huge shoulders, lightning feet, amazing eyesight, etc) but doesn't exploit that, but instead forces his kid to fundamentals...the kid becomes so much better than his peers he can win games alone. It's nearly god like (watch Bahu'bali and Bahu'bali 2 for a visual).

So then some youth coach gets this kid at 10.  There is nothing he can really teach him...but he can use him. The kid plays all 30 minutes of a youth BBALL game. Pitches all 7 innings every other game or plays both ways at Tackle and Defensive end. Every play is run his way and he gets 5 tackles in the first quarter for a loss and then every play the rest of the game  after the first series is run the other way. The coach acts like it was all him and feeds off it.  9 years later, that guy is always dealing with foot issues, elbow issues...any joint issue you can think of.

What these coaches forget is that even if the kid seems super human, there are only so many curve balls in every elbow, only so many times you can roll over an ankle from behind and a limit to the number of times you can land on those ligaments and tiny bones in the feet/knees, hips.  These coaches put kids in the weight room and they build the whole wrong muscle groups for they are doing or get way, way too tight in the wrong areas (see Al Horford 2 pectoral tears).

I would love a study that looks at kids that were super dominant at 12 years old and how it relates to injuries as a pro.  From my perspective, there is a direct correlation.

Now the bolded above is the key to your statement. For these kids at 12...they don't have to work hard. They are so much better, they can coast. But once they make it to the NBA, even a bad NBA'r is much closer in skill level. Think of all the times last year Plumlee looked like he might be a fit. All of these guys have skills. All are incredibly strong, carrying hundreds of pounds with them. All are terrifying if playing dirty (even Matthew Dellavedova. Just ask Kyle Kover.).  These guys' bodies are 1/2 way broken when they get to the NBA, they just don't know it yet and if they didn't put the right work in at 12, there is little they can do to catch up at 27.

I can't like this post (because I give out likes at a Kardashian rate) but you are spot on, sir.

My kids play youth sports and it goes exactly how you described.  I've been fortunate that my kids have landed with good coaches who don't exploit kids' abilities but I see it every weekend.

I have no doubt that these injuries are correlated to overuse.  It (overuse) may not be the reason but it's certainly a reason.

[MaceCase]

I see the validity in Camp's observations.  Just look at the number of Tommy John surgeries happening to high schoolers, read somewhere that 60% of all the surgeries performed are for kids in that age group.  Glad I gave up the sport soph year, cracking mid 80s be damned!  You could imagine how having a week's worth of a sore elbow could be... troublesome for a teen.

 

As to AD, he had a pretty significant growth spurt from 15 to 19 without gaining much mass.  Once he hit the NBA he packed on a Spudian level of mass in only a few seasons.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

I see the validity in Camp's observations.  Just look at the number of Tommy John surgeries happening to high schoolers, read somewhere that 60% of all the surgeries performed are for kids in that age group.  Glad I gave up the sport soph year, cracking mid 80s be damned!  You could imagine how having a week's worth of a sore elbow could be... troublesome for a teen.

Doesn’t Inez rub neosporin on it now while Esmeralda feeds you Bon Bon’s?

  

[MaceCase]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Doesn’t Inez rub neosporin on it now while Esmeralda feeds you Bon Bon’s?

  

The hell is neosporin got to do with inflammation?  Do you even lift, bro?

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

The hell is neosporin got to do with inflammation?  Do you even lift, bro?

I do I’ve never used any of that stuff. I go hard ina paint . I have seen these youngun kids work out in front of me daily. All this new age stuff with their bands and bangs and cell phone calls and selfies....it’s enough to make you wanna do Rocky Balboa workouts in the snow . Good times.

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

I see the validity in Camp's observations.  Just look at the number of Tommy John surgeries happening to high schoolers, read somewhere that 60% of all the surgeries performed are for kids in that age group.  Glad I gave up the sport soph year, cracking mid 80s be damned!  You could imagine how having a week's worth of a sore elbow could be... troublesome for a teen.

As to AD, he had a pretty significant growth spurt from 15 to 19 without gaining much mass.  Once he hit the NBA he packed on a Spudian level of mass in only a few seasons.

Good point.  I always harken back to Jonathan Bender who also famously growth-spurted then went into the NBA while apparently still growing.  He says the working out, lifting, etc. during that period was a direct cause of his injuries and shortened his career.

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Doesn’t Inez rub neosporin on it now while Esmeralda feeds you Bon Bon’s?

  

Haha.  Poor Consuela.

3 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

The hell is neosporin got to do with inflammation?  Do you even lift, bro?

This made me lol.  You fixated on that instead of the fact that spud2 is sitting in your tree with binoculars watching your *ahem* "workout" sessions with the Garcia sisters.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Good point.  I always harken back to Jonathan Bender who also famously growth-spurted then went into the NBA while apparently still growing.  He says the working out, lifting, etc. during that period was a direct cause of his injuries and shortened his career.

Haha.  Poor Consuela.

This made me lol.  You fixated on that instead of the fact that spud2 is sitting in your tree with binoculars watching your *ahem* "workout" sessions with the Garcia sisters.

Ps I really think @MaceCase shoulda gone with the yellow sweater today, it just would have brought the outfit full circle ️...

 

  

[MaceCase]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I have seen these youngun kids work out in front of me daily.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

 

 

ok I’m bustin. That didn’t sound right reading it aloud....  

 

AT THE GYM!!! 

You people are too much .. oh man ..  

[Spud2nique]

Warning I may laugh for the rest of the day from that Mace gif.

[MaceCase]

16 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Good point.  I always harken back to Jonathan Bender who also famously growth-spurted then went into the NBA while apparently still growing.  He says the working out, lifting, etc. during that period was a direct cause of his injuries and shortened his career.

I also think of Dwight.  He got dunked on by Shaq his rookie year and said "sweet lawd, these sum grown menz!".  He hit the weights hard and has been plagued by a litany of back injuries since.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, MaceCase said:

I also think of Dwight.  He got dunked on by Shaq his rookie year and said "sweet lawd, these sum grown menz!".  He hit the weights hard and has been plagued by a litany of back injuries since.

Basketball players have been trained like football linebackers for too long. Much like Kareem, bballers would have been better off building strength through calisthenics and natural body motions that relate to their sport. Why make Dwight squat 500 pounds when he isn’t actually required to put Shaq on his shoulders  during the game? The stress on the body, specially over time is just murder.

[turnermx]

9 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Basketball players have been trained like football linebackers for too long. Much like Kareem, bballers would have been better off building strength through calisthenics and natural body motions that relate to their sport. Why make Dwight squat 500 pounds when he isn’t actually required to put Shaq on his shoulders  during the game? The stress on the body, specially over time is just murder.

100% Spud, this also destroyed Horfs pecs 

[Spud2nique]

12 minutes ago, turnermx said:

100% Spud, this also destroyed Horfs pecs 

Yes sir! He went too heavy on the bench. I even recall him and Nique discussing this during a season when he was injured joined bob n Nique for the telecast. Nique even told him to work with lighter weights. At that point, some severe damage was already done. 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, MaceCase said:

I see the validity in Camp's observations.  Just look at the number of Tommy John surgeries happening to high schoolers, read somewhere that 60% of all the surgeries performed are for kids in that age group.  Glad I gave up the sport soph year, cracking mid 80s be damned!  You could imagine how having a week's worth of a sore elbow could be... troublesome for a teen.

 

As to AD, he had a pretty significant growth spurt from 15 to 19 without gaining much mass.  Once he hit the NBA he packed on a Spudian level of mass in only a few seasons.

I forgot about that....the growth spurts while lifting are a huge part of it too.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

 

So having coached years and years of youth sports...let me answer this from a different perspective. In little league anything, there is always one kid that is so much better than anyone else he can win games on his own. He's bigger, more coordinated and ahead of everyone else skills wise because his dad just can stop throwing him ground balls, tossing him spot up bounce passes (see Trae and his dad) or teaching him hand techniques in the box. Its all about the dads in youth sports. When you get a dad who gets that its all about techniques and teaches them early, the kid's skill explode. When the dad recognizes his kid has a significant physical advantage (ie, gonna be 7 feet tall, huge shoulders, lightning feet, amazing eyesight, etc) but doesn't exploit that, but instead forces his kid to fundamentals...the kid becomes so much better than his peers he can win games alone. It's nearly god like (watch Bahu'bali and Bahu'bali 2 for a visual).

So then some youth coach gets this kid at 10.  There is nothing he can really teach him...but he can use him. The kid plays all 30 minutes of a youth BBALL game. Pitches all 7 innings every other game or plays both ways at Tackle and Defensive end. Every play is run his way and he gets 5 tackles in the first quarter for a loss and then every play the rest of the game  after the first series is run the other way. The coach acts like it was all him and feeds off it.  9 years later, that guy is always dealing with foot issues, elbow issues...any joint issue you can think of.

What these coaches forget is that even if the kid seems super human, there are only so many curve balls in every elbow, only so many times you can roll over an ankle from behind and a limit to the number of times you can land on those ligaments and tiny bones in the feet/knees, hips.  These coaches put kids in the weight room and they build the whole wrong muscle groups for they are doing or get way, way too tight in the wrong areas (see Al Horford 2 pectoral tears).

I would love a study that looks at kids that were super dominant at 12 years old and how it relates to injuries as a pro.  From my perspective, there is a direct correlation.

Now the bolded above is the key to your statement. For these kids at 12...they don't have to work hard. They are so much better, they can coast. But once they make it to the NBA, even a bad NBA'r is much closer in skill level. Think of all the times last year Plumlee looked like he might be a fit. All of these guys have skills. All are incredibly strong, carrying hundreds of pounds with them. All are terrifying if playing dirty (even Matthew Dellavedova. Just ask Kyle Kover.).  These guys' bodies are 1/2 way broken when they get to the NBA, they just don't know it yet and if they didn't put the right work in at 12, there is little they can do to catch up at 27.

Davis is interesting like this because he wasn't the one who was the biggest guy and he wasn't a star until he hit a late growth spurt.  He was a guard until he hit that growth spurt in college and became the stud prospect and stud NBA player.  He didn't develop most of his career as the best guy in the room who didn't have to work hard and ended up working his butt off and developing skills he probably would never have done in his early years precisely because he wasn't "that guy" until much later in life compared to a lot of players.  

[AHF]

And for all of those who are inducing groans and eye rolling from my end because they can't seem to remember what the Pelicans did after they drafted Davis, here is your recap of all the great moves and healthy support they gave to him:

* Immediately after drafting Davis, New Orleans traded the #6 overall pick in 2013 and their 2014 first round pick for Jrue Holiday who promptly missed 88 games the next two seasons. They gambled on a resign of him for over $120M which is working out about as well as they could have hoped with him being reasonably productive and healthy.

* The same month, New Orleans traded away Robin Lopez on a rookie contract for Tyreke Evans on an expensive resign. Guess who missed 88 games in his second and third years of that contract and never made an impact? (It's Tyreke Evans for those playing at home). 

* Now that New Orleans had traded away their young defensive center, what do you do to fill that role? Why trade your 2015 first round pick for Omer Asik and sign him to a nice $60M contract. Guess who was injured over the next couple seasons and peaked at 7.3 point per game? Who has two thumbs, a big bank account? (It's Omer Asik.)

Since Davis was drafted, the NOP have literally not had a first round pick on the roster for even one season. Buddy Hield has the longest tenure at 57 games (the guy [who at the time I originally wrote this was] now averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds and 4 assists for less than $4M/year).

It is mind boggling how little NOP has done to build a sustainable talent base behind Davis. The only lottery picks on that roster besides Davis are [or were at the time of writing this] guys other teams didn't want to resign (Jahlil, Wesley Johnson, Randle, Elfrid Payton, etc.). 

And they always have weak sisters of the poor playing big minutes on the wing:
2018-19 E'Twaun Moore (starter), Darius Miller (7 starts)
2017-18 E'Twaun Moore (80 starts), Dante Cunningham (22 starts), Darius Miller (3 starts), DeAndre Liggins (3 starts)
2016-17 Starts from rookie Buddy Hield (39% fg%), E'Twaun Moore, Dante Cunningham, Hollis Thompson, Wayne Seldon
2015-16 Dante Cunningham (46 starts), Alonzo Gee (36 starts), Toney Douglas (18 starts), Luke Babbit (13 starts), Bryce Dejean-Jones (11 starts), James Ennis (5 starts), Jordan Hamilton (4 starts)

etc.

Incompetency at its finest.

 

*****************

Davis has all the talent in the world and shouldn't be compared to Bosh.  You will not see him resemble Miami Bosh in LA.  That is why he was #3 in MVP voting a year ago.

The big risk with Davis is health.  

The big challenge for LA is building a team around LeBron and Davis when they have mortgaged so much of their future assets in trading for Davis.  It will be interesting.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Doesn’t Inez rub neosporin on it now while Esmeralda feeds you Bon Bon’s?

  

  Neosporin for cuts Spudlous 

1 hour ago, MaceCase said:

The hell is neosporin got to do with inflammation?  Do you even lift, bro?

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

I do I’ve never used any of that stuff. I go hard ina paint . I have seen these youngun kids work out in front of me daily. All this new age stuff with their bands and bangs and cell phone calls and selfies....it’s enough to make you wanna do Rocky Balboa workouts in the snow . Good times.

 

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

 

Haha.  Poor Consuela.

This made me lol.  You fixated on that instead of the fact that spud2 is sitting in your tree with binoculars watching your *ahem* "workout" sessions with the Garcia sisters.

 

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Ps I really think @MaceCase shoulda gone with the yellow sweater today, it just would have brought the outfit full circle ️...

 

  

 

1 hour ago, MaceCase said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

ok I’m bustin. That didn’t sound right reading it aloud....  

 

AT THE GYM!!! 

You people are too much .. oh man ..  

 

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Warning I may laugh for the rest of the day from that Mace gif.

Off the rails....I'm sitting in my car heading to lunch, but I'm too weak from laughing to get out the car to get my food.

[kg01]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

Davis is interesting like this because he wasn't the one who was the biggest guy and he wasn't a star until he hit a late growth spurt.  He was a guard until he hit that growth spurt in college and became the stud prospect and stud NBA player.  He didn't develop most of his career as the best guy in the room who didn't have to work hard and ended up working his butt off and developing skills he probably would never have done in his early years precisely because he wasn't "that guy" until much later in life compared to a lot of players.  

Jonathan Bender was the same.

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

And for all of those who are inducing groans and eye rolling from my end because they can't seem to remember what the Pelicans did after they drafted Davis ....

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

 

So having coached years and years of youth sports...let me answer this from a different perspective. In little league anything, there is always one kid that is so much better than anyone else he can win games on his own. He's bigger, more coordinated and ahead of everyone else skills wise because his dad just can stop throwing him ground balls, tossing him spot up bounce passes (see Trae and his dad) or teaching him hand techniques in the box. Its all about the dads in youth sports. When you get a dad who gets that its all about techniques and teaches them early, the kid's skill explode. When the dad recognizes his kid has a significant physical advantage (ie, gonna be 7 feet tall, huge shoulders, lightning feet, amazing eyesight, etc) but doesn't exploit that, but instead forces his kid to fundamentals...the kid becomes so much better than his peers he can win games alone. It's nearly god like (watch Bahu'bali and Bahu'bali 2 for a visual).

So then some youth coach gets this kid at 10.  There is nothing he can really teach him...but he can use him. The kid plays all 30 minutes of a youth BBALL game. Pitches all 7 innings every other game or plays both ways at Tackle and Defensive end. Every play is run his way and he gets 5 tackles in the first quarter for a loss and then every play the rest of the game  after the first series is run the other way. The coach acts like it was all him and feeds off it.  9 years later, that guy is always dealing with foot issues, elbow issues...any joint issue you can think of.

What these coaches forget is that even if the kid seems super human, there are only so many curve balls in every elbow, only so many times you can roll over an ankle from behind and a limit to the number of times you can land on those ligaments and tiny bones in the feet/knees, hips.  These coaches put kids in the weight room and they build the whole wrong muscle groups for they are doing or get way, way too tight in the wrong areas (see Al Horford 2 pectoral tears).

I would love a study that looks at kids that were super dominant at 12 years old and how it relates to injuries as a pro.  From my perspective, there is a direct correlation.

Now the bolded above is the key to your statement. For these kids at 12...they don't have to work hard. They are so much better, they can coast. But once they make it to the NBA, even a bad NBA'r is much closer in skill level. Think of all the times last year Plumlee looked like he might be a fit. All of these guys have skills. All are incredibly strong, carrying hundreds of pounds with them. All are terrifying if playing dirty (even Matthew Dellavedova. Just ask Kyle Kover.).  These guys' bodies are 1/2 way broken when they get to the NBA, they just don't know it yet and if they didn't put the right work in at 12, there is little they can do to catch up at 27.

 Awesome read.

I sent this to my BIL (and my sister) and who coaches his son's 8U baseball team.  Told him to keep teaching the fundamental skills.

He had a kid who just couldn't make contact with the ball towards the end of the season after having success throughout. He was struggling and getting fustrated.

He told him, I'mma get you on base - he had that kid bunt 3 consecutive at bat appearances and brought in a runner each time. They won the game, kid's smile was as wide as the Atlantic Ocean.

Yeah, chicks dig the long ball...but fundamentals at that age matter.