Still too early roster projections - opening night vs final game 2019-2020

[AHF]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

So, maybe my Jontay Porter angle isn't to be....

That makes me sad too.  I was really hoping we would get him but didn’t realize he was that far from a return.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Sometimes you take the most tortured reading of things just for the sake of stirring up conflict. It is frustrating to try to have a conversation in that fashion.  For example, I never said that only players who are the focal point of a team have their coaches try to accentuate their strengths and hide their weaknesses or the opposite.  I said that players who play limited minutes can be selectively played against lineups and specific opponents to optimize them while someone who plays heavy minutes doesn’t have the same luxury.  The person playing heavy minutes can’t be hidden from opposing lineups but can be used in a way to give them the most favorable matchups possible.  So two weak defenders might both get matched up against the weakest offensive player as a means of hiding weaknesses but only a limited minutes player can be deployed only against reserve lineups or small lineups or big lineups, etc.  

When you distort what is being said in a way that you obviously know better it makes things tough because we end up just talking past each other.

Honestly?

Because I think those first two sentences are mine. I mean, for example, when you make such an absurdly definitive statement as "For the past 8 years that has been at forward and not SG.  8 years without exception," and you know that's not even barely accurate to say he's only been played at forward ie, "without exception." If it's without exception, then by definition, why do we even see any assertion by 82games.com that he played sometimes at the 2?

And I'm the one who is making statements that seemingly have no other purpose but to raise eyebrows and "stir conflict???" 

Of the two of us, correct me if I'm wrong, but I would have to pat myself on the back as the one clearly trying to look into what you've written for areas of agreement.

But I'm  the one taking a "tortured reading of things."

Okay. *rolls eyes*

Sorry, old friend, but that's just a blind, convenient... maybe even bordering on narcissistic... assessment, from where I sit.

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

You throw out quotes from me with straw men like “did you say healthy?” and pretend you are disputing what I said by pointing out Carter wasn’t healthy all season.  You ignore that what I said was that even when they were all healthy that he didn’t get the minutes.  That means I was giving that healthy window emphasis — not that I was saying he was healthy all year.  This is like saying that Collins was the primary option for the Hawks front court when the front court was healthy and pretending like pointing out that members of our frontcourt had injuries is any kind of response.  Of course you know this.

Honestly, AHF, you need to slow down and take a breath. That entire paragraph was wasted breath/keystrokes on your part.

Re-read.... who did I actually assert wasn't healthy???

It wasn't Carter.

My point, then, was that you're asserting something definitive for that season... long ago season, btw, fwiw... that, in fact, was colored by your two principals' being out for approximately 1/2 and 3/4 of the 82 game season.

And that point is stubborn... it won't be twisted into irrelevance.

 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Lets make this a bet instead.  A month of you picking my avatar if Carter plays 50% or more of his minutes at SG and a month of me picking your avatar if 50% or more time is spent at forward.  We use 82games.  

That should crystallize whether you truly believe he is best utilized as a SG or not because any smart coach would be more likely to use him as he is best suited and any smart GM would be more likely to sign him to play his best position. Both of us have some risk that he might sign with a particular team with an oddball situation that bucks against his skill set but whoever is right about how he is best deployed anymore will have the advantage.

You in?

So, if I accept, do I get to dictate to Schlenk how many SGs we carry and how many SFs we carry on the roster? Because, if you're paying attention at all to my point... and it's really becoming unclear that this is anything more than you stirring a pot... then you would know that it's about the make-up of the roster first that dictates where VC is getting his minutes.

And, in another instance of "did he read anything I just wrote" s-m-h disdain, I have to ask... if I accept, do I also get to be the one who dictates to 82games when Bembry is made the 2, and VC is made the 3 and vice-versa (... and if that confuses you that I ask, then again, re-read... or read for the first time... what's already been said in that vein).

Wrapping up, my interest in the topic is extinguished. It's largely a moot point regardless when we're talking about differences between the 2 and the 3. But circling back to the original point that peor tried to make, and that you incredibly enough tried to affirm, no, VC has been the irrefutable 2 in some line-ups on teams he's been with in recent memory. Less with us, not because he can't, but because of the abundance of guys on our roster last year who were much better at the 2 than at the 3, whereas he is only slightly better at the 2.

I'm done. You're welcome to the last word on that topic. I'm content that I've said everything I can possibly say to try to inject reason into the discussion, and I'm beginning to repeat myself and/or call attention to what I've already written but evidently wasn't received on that end.

[AHF]

I say he has played a majority forward for 8 years without exception and you read it as me saying he played only forward for 8 years.   It is like you wanted to give a perfect example of what I was complaining about.

[sturt]

Revision...........................

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Alpha Kaba is not joining the SL team, so chances are he won't join GL team.

Alex Poythress is working out with the team at Emory, I'd slot him in over Patton.

Adams back to GL on 2way, we can call him up anytime.

Dedmon resigned at $12 mil.

Solomon Hill cut, Vince back.

[sturt]

My understanding is you only get two SL seasons anyhow. Kaba's played both 2017 and 2018. So, there's that.

I didn't know that about Poythress.... I think Schlenk likes him, and I think you're probably on to something there.

[sturt]

By the way, though the conventional wisdom is that Justin Anderson won't receive a QO, that's not necessarily a given. Even today QOs are being handed out, and Schlenk has until 6/29.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

My understanding is you only get two SL seasons anyhow. Kaba's played both 2017 and 2018. So, there's that.

I didn't know that about Poythress.... I think Schlenk likes him, and I think you're probably on to something there.

IIRC I think the team can make it a requirement for 2 years but if asked a player can elect to go if he chooses without any punishment.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, sturt said:

By the way, though the conventional wisdom is that Justin Anderson won't receive a QO, that's not necessarily a given. Even today QOs are being handed out, and Schlenk has until 6/29.

I posted this yesterday in another thread regarding JA and his QO......

Quote

What this effectively means is that Justin Anderson will not be receiving a Qualifying Offer (becoming an unrestricted free agent) and his cap hold will be renounced

 

 

[AHF]

There is zero reason we should bring Justin Anderson back.  We are already paying better options and have better options in FA.  We test drove him and should move on.

[sturt]

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I posted this yesterday in another thread regarding JA and his QO......

 

 

 

To be precise, what that actually means is, once you accept Fanatic's stated assumptions about Adams, Carter and the salary cap limit, then you also should be able to accept his conclusion.

His statement is not a statement of fact, though, because there are the assumptions that he himself acknowledges.

Not that it matters very much, because most would agree with the conclusion. But the point remains that we're only putting pieces of the puzzle together, and have no actual insight into what the GM is thinking.... and... sometimes people get contrary around these parts when someone tries putting pieces of the puzzle together, and interestingly, not so much when other someones do the same thing. Interestingly.

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[sturt]

C-Viv is so helpful like that. It's good to have a beat writer who graduated 3rd grade. That division thing is tough.

[nathan2331]

Does anyone know if the Hawks have interest in the Lakers players they're trying to offload?

Edited June 27, 2019 by nathan2331

[JTB]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

Does anyone know if the Hawks have interest in the Lakers players they're trying to offload?

Yup @NBASupes has given us the inside that it’s likely to happen I believe then we will cut 2 of the 3. I think Wagner is one of them we’d end up keeping.

even without supes source I would say it’s likely the hawks help the lakers out since the trade for AD then the trade for Hunter isn’t yet official. Probably be best to work with LA and NO to keep a good business relationship until all is official I would think

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

Does anyone know if the Hawks have interest in the Lakers players they're trying to offload?

 

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

Yup @NBASupes has given us the inside that it’s likely to happen I believe then we will cut 2 of the 3. I think Wagner is one of them we’d end up keeping.

even without supes source I would say it’s likely the hawks help the lakers out since the trade for AD then the trade for Hunter isn’t yet official. Probably be best to work with LA and NO to keep a good business relationship until all is official I would think

If I'm reading Hawksfanatic correctly on tje cap stuff, he doesn't think it's possible if we are keeping Dedmon's caphold.

Quote

Expanding These Trades?

The elephant in the room for the off-season is how Atlanta may or may not be involved in the Lakers’ pursuit of additional cap space. David Lord put together an excellent overview of the situation from the Lakers perspective, but I’ll give us the Cliff’s Notes version and how it affects Atlanta:

If the Lakers get a “yes” from a max or near max free agent, they can first use up their cap space to sign the free agent. Then, they will aggregate current salaries on their roster in order to receive Anthony Davis in a trade as an over-the-cap team.To receive Anthony Davis in a trade over-the-cap, the Lakers need to send out at least $21,594,416 in salaries if Anthony Davis waives his trade kicker, or $24,845,577 if he does not waive it. A difference of $3,251,161, but we should anticipate Anthony Davis will not waive his trade kicker.Currently, the Lakers are sending out $17,918,965 in salaries. They need to add on somewhere between $3,675,451 and $6,926,612.Contracts on the books would be Mo Wagner ($2,063,520), Kyle Kuzma ($1,974,600), Isaac Bonga ($1,416,852) and Jemerrio Jones (counts as guaranteed portion, could be up to $1,416,852). That totals $6,871,824 and gets close to Anthony Davis keeping most of his trade kicker.Before the trade, there is $74,287,127 on the Lakers cap sheet over 9 roster spots. Add in the three roster charges of about $900K each and they are roughly at $77 million. Giving them about $32 million in cap space.

All this to say, if Anthony Davis is willing to reduce his trade bonus then there could be a situation where Wagner/Kuzma/Bonga/Jones are up for grabs and could be routed to Atlanta. But this is a big if and shouldn’t be viewed as likely.

Which is to say, unless the Salary Cap skyrockets past $114 million, we aren’t likely to see these trades expanded.

 

I'm not sure I grasp all of this but I know it's dependent on other moves to ultimately determine what our capspace will/can be.

[nathan2331]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

If I'm reading Hawksfanatic correctly on tje cap stuff, he doesn't think it's possible if we are keeping Dedmon's caphold.

I'm not sure I grasp all of this but I know it's dependent on other moves to ultimately determine what our capspace will/can be.

Thank you both for the replies. Looks like the Lakers will need us if they spend all their cap space, otherwise they'd need to add a 4th team which would significantly complicate things. I'd personally love to have Bonga as a project at PG, and Wagner would be a solid end of bench guy. Losing Dedmon would suck, but I think it might happen regardless. I'm not sure I want to commit past next year to him considering Center is the position that I believe we need to add a big money free agent or trade acquisition.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

Thank you both for the replies. Looks like the Lakers will need us if they spend all their cap space, otherwise they'd need to add a 4th team which would significantly complicate things. I'd personally love to have Bonga as a project at PG, and Wagner would be a solid end of bench guy. Losing Dedmon would suck, but I think it might happen regardless. I'm not sure I want to commit past next year to him considering Center is the position that I believe we need to add a big money free agent or trade acquisition.

I disagree regarding spending big money on a FA Center. (Unless it's a center like Jokic).

Besides even if we bring Dedmon back on say a 3 year deal at $12 ish mil, that amount isn't cost prohibitive for next season considering the available 2020 FA centers as well as the projected salary cap increase to $118 million.

If we are trading for a center say Gobert (yes, I know he isn't available) his contract is $25 mil. Dedmon goes to the bench, Plumlee is gone, Len is a FA.

[nathan2331]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I disagree regarding spending big money on a FA Center. (Unless it's a center like Jokic).

Besides even if we bring Dedmon back on say a 3 year deal at $12 ish mil, that amount isn't cost prohibitive for next season considering the available 2020 FA centers as well as the projected salary cap increase to $118 million.

If we are trading for a center say Gobert (yes, I know he isn't available) his contract is $25 mil. Dedmon goes to the bench, Plumlee is gone, Len is a FA.

Well, the money needs to be spent somewhere before our own guys hit restricted free agency. To me, I anticipate our core can fill the the 1-4 positions, meaning we'd best be served signing a center and signing some a nice bench piece or two. It'd be a mistake not to spend our cap space before our core's rookie contracts run out.