sturt

OKC/ATL | Thunder gets tax relief, Hawks get significantly improved 2022 1st rd

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I'll get us started...

2019-06-30_1219.png

 

Why ATL does it: Primarily to acquire an expansion of 10 extra slots from which to acquire OKC's 2022 first round pick.

Why OKC does it: Primarily to get to the tax line, with as little sacrifice to on-floor talent as possible.

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5 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'll get us started...

2019-06-30_1219.png

 

Why ATL does it: Primarily to acquire an expansion of 10 extra slots from which to acquire OKC's 2022 first round pick.

Why OKC does it: Primarily to get to the tax line, with as little sacrifice to on-floor talent as possible.

I don’t mind this trade. Essentially we would have Adams on the books for 25 million in 20-21 but that’s it. Roberson expires after this year. So does Len and Crabbe for them.

Ive always liked Adams. Having said that, he can’t shoo well. I think I’m looking for a more versatile center for the future. Adams would be a stop gap center for us and probably won’t be retained after 2021 by us.

I could take it or leave it. 

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Yeah, it's really a matter of whether you want to try to maximize Len's trade value now, or wait until the deadline.

OKC, by all reports, is highly motivated... so maybe the time is now, and maybe we get the best mileage out of getting them to just expand the pick from #15-#30, as opposed to collecting something probably with similar protections from someone else.

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If your eyes are solely fixed on 2019-2020, perhaps, peor.

If you're, on the other hand, mind-melding with Schlenk, and thus interested to convert your current cap space into future assets.... expansion of that 2022 pick could be especially timely and compelling and useful to our march to the 2022-23 title.

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14 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Sounds like a trade just to make a trade out of boredom.

It’s like an Evan Turner trade. Leaves something to be desired.

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Like I said... a matter of if your perspective is solely limited to this season.

The Turner/Baze trade is solely about this season, though.

Not so, this trade.

 

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This sounds eerily similar:

On 6/9/2019 at 8:39 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

I think OKCs first priority would be trying to move Dennis Schröder ($15) and his 2 years remaining, but I think they'll have a hard time doing it. Not many takers.

Roberson ($10) and Patrick Patterson($5) are the two expiring contracts.

The question though is this:

Is OKC just looking to just cut cost to save luxury tax payments or are they looking to also upgrade their roster since making these trades does not take them below the cap to sign any players in FAcy, they'll be limited to exemptions and vet mins to improve their roster.

Here's a trade idea if OKC is just not looking for salary relief with pick #21:

OKC trades - Steven Adams (25x2), Roberson, (10) Patterson (5),  OKC 2019 1st, OKC reduces the protection to top 8 on the  2021 1st owed to the Hawks.

Hawks trade - Kent Bazemore ($19), Alex Len ($5), picks #41 and #44.

The deals saves OKC $14 mil and provide them with defense at the wing and 3pt shooting and 3 point shooting at C.

Hawks get a C (his offensive fit is not ideal but we get defense), another 2019 1st and better porotection on the future pick and we finally get rid of Baze.

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Adams isn’t much of a shooter but his passing ability is very underrated and his finishing ability around the rim is top notch! 

Too many people underestimate finishing ability with big men smh.....defensively we all know where he stands and don’t be fooled by the rebound stat , he’s one of the best box out centers in the league .

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I don't want Adams.

But if trading Len for him is the difference b/t a questionable chance at receiving OKC's 2022 pick and a really, really good chance... makes all the sense in the world to me.

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15 hours ago, sturt said:

I don't want Adams.

But if trading Len for him is the difference b/t a questionable chance at receiving OKC's 2022 pick and a really, really good chance... makes all the sense in the world to me.

Me either, and would really just rather see what Len can do in his prime (26-27) with 25-30 mins. But you make a very good point about the OKC pick 🤔 

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15 hours ago, sturt said:

I don't want Adams.

But if trading Len for him is the difference b/t a questionable chance at receiving OKC's 2022 pick and a really, really good chance... makes all the sense in the world to me.

So from our salary perspective, we can't take back more than $13 million in extra salary before hitting the cap and rules kick in. So It wouldn't be Len.  

They are an LT team and 13 million isn't enough to push them under the LT so the 125% rule applies so we'd need to send them back $20,674,157.60 in salary to make it work.  Allen Crabbe + Bembry makes it work.  They'd get about $5 million in salary relief which would equal about $19 million in savings when you figure in the LT penalty.  So muscle it around in your head if for a bit if Crabbe + Bembry and saving $19 million is worth losing a classic rebound hound big body.

 

Now crazier land is if you went

Adams + Schröder

for

Crabbe + Plumlee + Bembry

and you'd save them almost enough to push them out of the LT while still staying under the cap ourselves and saving them over $30 million in Luxury tax + the salaries (over $41 million estimated (I'm honestly not sure)).

 

Now they'd still need to add 3 to 5 salaries so it doesn't get them out of the LT but does save them tons.

And it resets their salaries next year when all 3 come off the books.

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38 minutes ago, thecampster said:

So from our salary perspective, we can't take back more than $13 million in extra salary before hitting the cap and rules kick in. So It wouldn't be Len.  

They are an LT team and 13 million isn't enough to push them under the LT so the 125% rule applies so we'd need to send them back $20,674,157.60 in salary to make it work.  Allen Crabbe + Bembry makes it work.  They'd get about $5 million in salary relief which would equal about $19 million in savings when you figure in the LT penalty.  So muscle it around in your head if for a bit if Crabbe + Bembry and saving $19 million is worth losing a classic rebound hound big body.

 

Now crazier land is if you went

Adams + Schröder

for

Crabbe + Plumlee + Bembry

and you'd save them almost enough to push them out of the LT while still staying under the cap ourselves and saving them over $30 million in Luxury tax + the salaries (over $41 million estimated (I'm honestly not sure)).

 

Now they'd still need to add 3 to 5 salaries so it doesn't get them out of the LT but does save them tons.

And it resets their salaries next year when all 3 come off the books.

This isn't the final complete remedy, but it gets them really, really close to resolving their tax problem. So close, that actually having to pay the tax itself isn't nearly such a burden.

And it does dance on the edge of our own cap number. If it were to actually go down right here right now, using numbers on earlybirdrights, it's just a matter of including Jaylen Adams' $1.6m contract to get it done.

 

Having said that, I do have a preferred trade that doesn't help OKC as much, but allows us a bit more wiggle room...

Add Solomon Hill's $12m contract going to them, and we take back Patrick Patterson's $5m.

 

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Just now, sturt said:

This isn't the final complete remedy, but it gets them really, really close to resolving their tax problem. So close, that actually having to pay the tax itself isn't nearly such a burden.

And it does dance on the edge of our own cap number. If it were to actually go down right here right now, using numbers on earlybirdrights, it's just a matter of including Jaylen Adams' $1.6m contract to get it done.

 

Having said that, I do have a preferred trade that doesn't help OKC as much, but allows us a bit more wiggle room...

Add Solomon Hill's $12m contract going to them, and we take back Patrick Patterson's $5m.

 

They don't do it unless it helps them.

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1 hour ago, hazer said:

Me either, and would really just rather see what Len can do in his prime (26-27) with 25-30 mins. But you make a very good point about the OKC pick 🤔 

Don't mind seeing Len stick around, but I just don't see us resigning him next OS.... assuming he continues to show promise, it's much like Dedmon's situation this time around.

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1 minute ago, thecampster said:

They don't do it unless it helps them.

But Adams at Center, Len off the Bench with Schröder getting 20+ minutes at the point and the 2 makes us a mid-level playoff team tomorrow.

Edited by thecampster

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1 minute ago, thecampster said:

They don't do it unless it helps them.

I think what you might be meaning by that is, "They don't do it unless it totally resolves their tax problem."

I think at this stage they may be exhausted, and getting increasingly persuaded that they have to be content with mitigating their problem to the fullest extent that they can.

Not unlike what Schlenk did when he traded DH.... you just make the best deal out there, even though it's not ideal. It happens.

 

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2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

But Adams at Center, Len off the Bench with Schröder getting 20+ minutes at the point and the 2 makes us a mid-level playoff team tomorrow.

You and I both know there is zero interest in having Schröder back on this team under practically any circumstances.

You and I both know, or at least I think I can include you(?), the GM's objective is not playoffs yet. We have one more "development" year, though if our current assets get us to the playoffs, that's certainly something he's okay with. He's said as much in recent interviews.

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We can grab Dragic from the Heat straight up for Evan Turner and take a future 2nd for our trouble.

?

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