JayBirdHawk

John Collins - PnR

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2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Huh? 

Wouldn't want him trying to guard an Adams or Drummond down low...I take my chances with him defending a Blake Griffin jumper

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1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Here's Pierce's FULL comments:

Apologies for the confusion.

Can someone explain the undying desire to play small ball?

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13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I rather have a poor defender defending a lower percentage shot rather than fouling out trying to defend a higher percentage shot.

Id rather have our best and most gifted rebounder in the paint. 

Collins isn’t particularly quick twitched so I think him growing in to a post defender is more realistic than him out in space matching up with wing type players.

Considering position-less basketball , most teams just use 1 true big, next to a combo forward type player these days. In those scenarios John matches up better with the big

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1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Can someone explain the undying desire to play small ball?

Because the league has changed. 

With the 3 point shot being so valuable these days you need guys who can both shoot and defend the three.

Traditional big men are becoming extinct.

Teams would rather elite playmakers surrounded by decent-height players who have length and can shoot open jumpers and rim runner who can defend paint but not get exposed by smaller players 

 

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1 minute ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Because the league has changed. 

With the 3 point shot being so valuable these days you need guys who can both shoot and defend the three.

Traditional big men are becoming extinct.

Teams would rather elite playmakers surrounded by decent-height players who have length and can shoot open jumpers and rim runner who can defend paint but not get exposed by smaller players 

 

It only works when you have great shooters like Golden State right? And even golden State couldn't deal with Toronto's bully ball in the finals.

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7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It only works when you have great shooters like Golden State right? And even golden State couldn't deal with Toronto's bully ball in the finals.

Trae-Huerter-Cam-Hunter-Collins could be an elite shooting lineup. It doesn't need to be the starting lineup, but LP will almost certainly run with it for stretches as long as Cam and Hunter prove themselves. It's exciting to think about.

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4 minutes ago, High5 said:

Trae-Huerter-Cam-Hunter-Collins could be an elite shooting lineup. It doesn't need to be the starting lineup, but LP will almost certainly run with it for stretches as long as Cam and Hunter prove themselves. It's exciting to think about.

1st of all none of the players listed are elite shooters and secondly, Pierce was talking about using Evan Turner or Parker as the small ball 4.

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John doesn't exactly fit the modern NBA on defense but he is an excellent fit offensively with Trae. Sometimes even now I wonder if he is a true starter or more like a Harrell 6th or 7th man but I just realized, like Trae, you will have to protect him. It's just harder to protect him than Trae. It's easier to hide a guard more than a big in today's NBA. 

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42 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It only works when you have great shooters like Golden State right? And even golden State couldn't deal with Toronto's bully ball in the finals.

GS would have won that series handly if healthy. GS lost that series due to health and a lack of depth to deal with the issues with health.

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14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

GS would have won that series handly if healthy. GS lost that series due to health and a lack of depth to deal with the issues with health.

I should have said that once they lost most of their elite shooting, they could not handle Toronto's bully ball tactics

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1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

1st of all none of the players listed are elite shooters and secondly, Pierce was talking about using Evan Turner or Parker as the small ball 4.

It could be an elite shooting lineup moving forward. Just having 5 above average shooters on the floor can be deadly. But Huerter looks like someone who will hit 40+% and Trae got more consistent as the year went on. Either way defenders respect him as soon as he crosses mid court. Then Collins shot well over 40+% for a stretch before cooling off. Again, he doesn't need to be elite. Just a threat to draw out their center. And we'll see what kind of shooters Cam and Hunter turn out to be in the NBA. Both definitely have some shooting ability to work with.

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5 hours ago, High5 said:

It could be an elite shooting lineup moving forward. Just having 5 above average shooters on the floor can be deadly. But Huerter looks like someone who will hit 40+% and Trae got more consistent as the year went on. Either way defenders respect him as soon as he crosses mid court. Then Collins shot well over 40+% for a stretch before cooling off. Again, he doesn't need to be elite. Just a threat to draw out their center. And we'll see what kind of shooters Cam and Hunter turn out to be in the NBA. Both definitely have some shooting ability to work with.

You didn't address the second part of the response which is Pierce referenced Evan Turner and Parker as the potential small ball 4's. Those 2 are definitely not elite shooters.

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Each NBA team is different.  Therefore, Hawks must plan for and play each one different.  Some play bully ball and some do not.  Most fall somewhere in between the two.  Against some teams the "small ball" lineup will work great.  Other teams who run bully ball will require a big lineup to compete with them.

Hawks potentially have players to go either way at any time.  Turner and Parker, as mentioned, may be used in our small ball lineup.  Right now Atlanta has players that they really don't know how they will fit together.  Only time will tell.

Compared to the roster that the Hawks finished last season with, so many changes have been made.  At least four key players at the beginning of last season are gone.  Three rookies, all of which we expect to be pretty good and other players traded for and signed as free agents give us an entirely new look.

October 7th is rapidly approaching.  We read now about pre season training and how exciting things are.  Here's hoping we don't expect too much and then get the rug yanked out from under us.  Stay healthy and prepare for the real thing coming up where the games count !

GO ATL HAWKS !!

:dance3:

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3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

You didn't address the second part of the response which is Pierce referenced Evan Turner and Parker as the potential small ball 4's. Those 2 are definitely not elite shooters.

Because I wasn’t talking about those lineups. That said, we won’t have trouble scoring with Parker playing in a similar lineup. The concern there would be on defense.

I’m not interested in Turner at the 4, but he may surprise us.

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45 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Each NBA team is different.  Therefore, Hawks must plan for and play each one different.  Some play bully ball and some do not.  Most fall somewhere in between the two.  Against some teams the "small ball" lineup will work great.  Other teams who run bully ball will require a big lineup to compete with them.

 

:dance3:

I just want to see some wins and I think the Hawks will have a hard time winning basketball games with small ball line ups without elite shooting.

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Is Toronto built around a pg, wing and perimeter shooting PF supposed to be a bully ball team?  To me they were just a team with depth who based their approach to GS around what they could exploit when GS was missing Cousins, Durant, etc.

For us, we aren’t done being built yet so I’d say to wait and see some there but we do have at least 4 guys who could represent very efficient perimeter shooters as they develop and a couple who could be elite scorers.  Let’s let them push themselves and see what we have.

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