sillent

Final Verdict On Trae/Luka Trade

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6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He didn't make this point which is my issue with his post.

Dallas can be happy with themselves and at the very least feel as if what they got was a win win but when it's all said and done.

That comment was the most I could give to a player/team that is not ours. Honestly if you know what I know or see what I see and I guess you can say Schlenk and Lloyd as well than you would understand that was a "humungus" compliment for Luka comparing 2 possible HOF to one. If it were Trae alone vs Luka I would still say we won atleast for our team but it could be debatable. I was not high on Cam like many were but I am humble enough to admit when I'm wrong or sleeping on a player and I originally did that for Cam and DeAndre both. Like Lloyd said "Now I see the bigger picture". I guess like the Warriors did and said in the past we'll just have to wait for the rest of the league to catch on and catch up. I will say the Nuggets and Pelicans get it. There you go more Kudos to teams other than the Hawks.

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The entertaining part was not really my point but more the fact Pop seems to be a fan of Trae's game and its usually pretty hard to tell anything with him unless it is about his own players. He is not a complimentary kinda guy. But yeah since it was brought up, I do think Trae is entertaining but also believe he makes his teammates better and he started doing that for us as a twenty year old. Here again I really don't think I will care as much as the sportswriters do about who ends up with more individual awards but do want to win a ton of games and at least one damn championship.  

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OP, just to be clear, I do believe we easily won the trade. Cam will be a superstar and likely the best of the three in time. Luka will put up better numbers and have some type of impact but Trae will have higher impact than Luka long term. Overall, Atlanta won the trade by a mile.

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10 hours ago, sillent said:

Dallas can be happy with themselves and at the very least feel as if what they got was a win win but when it's all said and done.

That comment was the most I could give to a player/team that is not ours. Honestly if you know what I know or see what I see and I guess you can say Schlenk and Lloyd as well than you would understand that was a "humungus" compliment for Luka comparing 2 possible HOF to one. If it were Trae alone vs Luka I would still say we won atleast for our team but it could be debatable. I was not high on Cam like many were but I am humble enough to admit when I'm wrong or sleeping on a player and I originally did that for Cam and DeAndre both. Like Lloyd said "Now I see the bigger picture". I guess like the Warriors did and said in the past we'll just have to wait for the rest of the league to catch on and catch up. I will say the Nuggets and Pelicans get it. There you go more Kudos to teams other than the Hawks.

You do know that post was in response to Hotlanta right? I'm not sure whether you are answering him or what.

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18 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

Yes, Cam could be a bust and Trae could be a Brandon Jennings for all we know.

and Luka could be Tyreke Evans, you forgot that part

Edited by Cwell
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It is way too early for a "final" verdict on this trade. What if Luka blows his knee out and isn't the same player? What if it was Young? If Cam is a bust then what?

We know after their rookie seasons that Luka is as I said before last year's draft a generational superstar. Trae after a brutal af start to the season came on like wildfire to show superstar potential. It should have been co ROY but hey, we all know who finished the year stronger.

If both Luka and Trae are equal or close to it in terms of talent/impact then the x factor is Cam. If Cam becomes a solid 10 year starter let alone more than that then we clearly would win that trade. But that's a big if.

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15 hours ago, Diesel said:

Got to agree.   It's too early.. far too early to judge this trade. 

Let me add, I think the final verdict will be based on how far into the playoffs the combination of Trae and Cam can get us.

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48 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Let me add, I think the final verdict will be based on how far into the playoffs the combination of Trae and Cam can get us.

It will all be relative to what Dallas does.  Way too early to judge at this point.  We have one season of Luka and Trae where both flashed superstar potential and nothing yet from Cam.  On a full year basis, I think Luka had the stronger rookie season but that doesn't mean anything for the future and Trae had the stronger finish.  Let's give these guys a couple years to see what they become and that no one gets afflicted by injuries, etc. before rending a "final verdict."  

I didn't like the trade on draft night because I felt Trae had a much lower floor but I wouldn't reverse the trade today if given the chance.  Verdict come after the evidence is in, though, and we just don't have it yet.

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13 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Your comments were heavily weighted in one direction not evenly...Just pointing out that you didn't even entertain the possibility that Luka could get fat and bust himself

If I was on a Mavericks message board and someone said: "Luka was ROY and we clearly won the trade."  I would say that it was only the first year, but I would also point out that Trae had a stronger post all star break performance. Which he did.

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1 hour ago, Plainview1981 said:

If I was on a Mavericks message board and someone said: "Luka was ROY and we clearly won the trade."  I would say that it was only the first year, but I would also point out that Trae had a stronger post all star break performance. Which he did.

So essentially your are a deeam killer!🤔

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25 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So essentially your are a deeam killer!🤔

I think he is just bucking the natural bias of people and saying what was said above:  it is too early to give a verdict.  It is like making the call on the best runner in a marathon when you are 4 miles into the race.  All kinds of things can change and this one in particular is unclear on its face.

No reason people can't speculate or make predictions but that is different than rendering a final verdict.

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11 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think he is just bucking the natural bias of people and saying what was said above:  it is too early to give a verdict.  It is like making the call on the best runner in a marathon when you are 4 miles into the race.  All kinds of things can change and this one in particular is unclear on its face.

No reason people can't speculate or make predictions but that is different than rendering a final verdict.

The difference is that his message would be different depending on his audience.  To me that is someone deliberately being contrary without any skin in the game.

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19 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The difference is that his message would be different depending on his audience.  To me that is someone deliberately being contrary without any skin in the game.

It is making the point in way that audience would best understand.  If he said, "Luke hasn't proven it yet - we need more time" to this board there are a lot of people who would just nod and think, "of course Luka hasn't proven it, because he can't, because Trae/Cam is obviously better."  Nobody is making the argument on this board that it is time to render a final verdict in favor of Luka so why bother addressing it?  Nobody will be making the argument that the final verdict is ready to render in favor of Trae / Cam on a Mavericks board so why bother addressing it?  I think what he said and suggested he would say are both fair.

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24 minutes ago, AHF said:

It is making the point in way that audience would best understand.

By comparing Trae to a player who had a terrible career and who's game is nothing like Trae's game?  If Someone said that Kevin Huerter could be the next Jimmer Fredette would you take that person seriously?

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On 9/29/2019 at 1:11 AM, NBASupes said:

We like ten years away from a final verdict 

What I was going to say. The final verdict will be when they are both retired... Hell, it's still too early to "final verdict" KD and LeBron.

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10 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

What I was going to say. The final verdict will be when they are both retired... Hell, it's still too early to "final verdict" KD and LeBron.

Unless we are voting on who takes the Mercenary Trophy. But then again even that hasn't been decided by a majority vote as of yet on those two. 

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1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

By comparing Trae to a player who had a terrible career and who's game is nothing like Trae's game?  If Someone said that Kevin Huerter could be the next Jimmer Fredette would you take that person seriously?

Here is how I read that statement:  "Trae could end up being a disappointment."  I personally don't see much resemblence between Jennings and Trae other than high volume shooting at a subpar shooting efficiency (and I think Trae can become efficient), but the basic point that any of these guys could be less than their fans hope they will be is sound.  Jennings was 16, 6 and 3 as a rookie which is pretty raw production.  His 3pt% was much better than Trae and his FG% was much worse.  He didn't pass nearly as well or accrue nearly as many assists as a result. 

I'm not hung up on comparing Trae to Jennings anymore than I am comparing Luka to Tyreke Evans.  Both comparisons falter if you invest a lot in the specifics but both make the general point that players after their rookie season could become something less than they looked like they would become after their rookie seasons.

This is a wait and see situation.  Which was always predictable for this point in their careers.

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4 minutes ago, AHF said:

I personally don't see much resemblence between Jennings and Trae

I'm not hung up on comparing Trae to Jennings anymore than I am comparing Luka to Tyreke Evans. 

Words do matter!  I'm taking a wait and see approach myself because I'm pretty sure people know my reservations are about Cam are but to compare Trae or Luka to those guys discredits the input immediately.  Just like the Acie Law II comparisons did.

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56 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Words do matter!  I'm taking a wait and see approach myself because I'm pretty sure people know my reservations are about Cam are but to compare Trae or Luka to those guys discredits the input immediately.  Just like the Acie Law II comparisons did.

Jennings isn't that terrible a player.  His career best stats in different categories are:

19.1 ppg, 37.5% 3pt%, 7.6 apg, 3.7 rpg, 1.6 spg, 5.8 WS, 2.5 VORP, 2.3 BPM

Trae was:

19.1 ppg, 32.4% 3pt%, 8.1 apg, 3.7 rpg, 0.9 spg, 3.3 WS, 0.6 VORP, -1.1 BPM

 

I take Trae 1000x over Jennings but those stats are pretty similar and I think the point that this is too early in a career to render a verdict on the trade is 100% accurate, particularly when the comparison for the verdict is to Luka.

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2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Jennings isn't that terrible a player.  His career best stats in different categories are:

19.1 ppg, 37.5% 3pt%, 7.6 apg, 3.7 rpg, 1.6 spg, 5.8 WS, 2.5 VORP, 2.3 BPM

Trae was:

19.1 ppg, 32.4% 3pt%, 8.1 apg, 3.7 rpg, 0.9 spg, 3.3 WS, 0.6 VORP, -1.1 BPM

 

I take Trae 1000x over Jennings but those stats are pretty similar and I think the point that this is too early in a career to render a verdict on the trade is 100% accurate, particularly when the comparison for the verdict is to Luka.

I see you didn't list his shooting stats...Like his TS/efg% or the fact that his NBA career was over at 28 years of age and was a single digit scorer after 26.  But if you want to continue to support this comparison, I quote a few more stats.  My suggestion is to write it off as a bad comparison and move on.

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