How Badly do we need a Center???

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Not if schlenk and Co. are trying to lose

Define "trying."

 

That's a difference, imo, between this and Schlenk's previous seasons. Even then, I wouldn't so much say they were "trying" to lose, but more that they were just very, very, very disinterested in winning.

 

Now?

 

They're at least "somewhat interested" in winning, imo.

 

But it's still not a priority.

[JayBirdHawk]

17 minutes ago, marco102 said:

You're going to hear me preach this all season long.  The perfect back up point guard in this year's draft is Tre Mann.  He's already taken advice from Trae Young about how to approach college.   He's 6'4" with shoes and plays a very similar game to Trae. 

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/08/09/tre-mann-shouldnt-2020-draft-sleeper-hiding-plain-sight/

The article above breaks him down for you. After he plays a few games at Florida, he should move up some mock draft boards. No idea why he's not top 20 now.  He can pass, dribble and shoot.  To me, one of the best pure shooters in this class.  He should be available with the Net's pick.

James Wiseman will be the perfect fit with Collins, but Wiseman will require some lotto luck.

Trae backed up by Tre? Sure...why not.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

...he should move up some mock draft boards. No idea why he's not top 20 now.  He can pass, dribble and shoot.  To me, one of the best pure shooters in this class.  He should be available with the Net's pick.

 

Just throwin this out there.... we just came off arguably the least predictable 11-35 draft of the last 25 years, even just looking from the end of the college season to draft night. The first game of the college season hasn't been played, let alone the first tournament game, let alone the first post-season workouts. The words "we'll see"... as ho-hum as they may be... seem to apply. But thanks for the heads-up. There's at least a name to be watching for.

[gurpilo]

hace 2 horas, JayBirdHawk dijo:

Looney opted to stay with GSW for less.

Wood is on the Pistons roster, they cut Joe to keep him.

Birch, I'll have to look him up.

I know where they are, the issue is we did not even try to sign them. Now is when you can do this young bargain signings and get them minutes, when you are on win mode not rebuilding you just cannot do that. I think we are ding fine in the draft and weak on the FA, we can do better than Jaylen Adams, Evan Turner and Damian Jones, much better

[JayBirdHawk]

55 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

I know where they are, the issue is we did not even try to sign them. Now is when you can do this young bargain signings and get them minutes, when you are on win mode not rebuilding you just cannot do that. I think we are ding fine in the draft and weak on the FA, we can do better than Jaylen Adams, Evan Turner and Damian Jones, much better

Here:

Quote

Looney wanted to entertain other more lucrative offers with teams that could offer a larger role. Though he also fielded interest from the Los Angeles Clippers, Houston Rockets, Philadelphia 76ers and Atlanta Hawks, Looney found it more appealing to stay with the Warriors because of his ongoing development and the team’s recent championship success.

 

Wood was never a FA, he was claimed off waivers by Detroit with a winning bid. I have no idea if the Hawks put in a bid, if they did, it wasn't high enough to outbid Detroit.

I still haven't researched Birch status.

[JTB]

can someone do the honors of sharing this interesting piece?...thanks in advance 

 

https://theathletic.com/1313367/2019/10/22/vince-carters-honest-assessment-of-the-hawks-entering-the-season/

 

[Watchman]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

Define "trying."

 

That's a difference, imo, between this and Schlenk's previous seasons. Even then, I wouldn't so much say they were "trying" to lose, but more that they were just very, very, very disinterested in winning.

 

Now?

 

They're at least "somewhat interested" in winning, imo.

 

But it's still not a priority.

Not "somewhat interested" with these centers.  Terrible bigs, other than Collins, and he doesn't need to be playing center.

[Peoriabird]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

Now?

 

They're at least "somewhat interested" in winning, imo.

 

But it's still not a priority.

Based on what?  The previous teams had better personnel than this one!

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

can someone do the honors of sharing this interesting piece?...thanks in advance 

 

https://theathletic.com/1313367/2019/10/22/vince-carters-honest-assessment-of-the-hawks-entering-the-season/

 

Not the biggest fan of this, Chris writes great articles and ya'll should get a sub for the Athletic Whenever Vince Carter checks into his first game during the regular season, he will become the NBA’s record holder for seasons played with 22. He has played for eight teams. His career is older than Trae Young, Cam Reddish, De’Andre Hunter, Bruno Fernando and Kevin Huerter and the same age as John Collins. Carter is older than Young’s father, and he’s 12 years older than the second-oldest players on the roster (Evan Turner and Chandler Parsons are 30). In January, he’ll become the first player to ever play in four different decades.

In summation, Carter has been around the block and has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to the game, and it’s one of the main reasons why the Hawks wanted him on the roster this season. Atlanta saved him a roster spot because the organization felt what he brings off the court in terms of leadership is beneficial for this young roster as it navigates the challenges of an NBA season.

Before the season tips off in Detroit on Thursday, The Athletic spoke with Carter to get his thoughts on the upcoming season and his honest assessment of the Hawks. Here’s our conversation.

Last year, as the rookies got adjusted to the league, this team struggled. You guys started 6-23 going into mid-December. What do you think are the challenges for this team to avoid starting off like that this year? 

It’ll either happen, or it won’t, to be honest with you. Right now, we can’t worry about the actual number of wins and losses.

Before you go on, why?

Because we have so many young guys on this roster. When you get caught up with that, you forget about the most important part, and that’s learning how to play the right way. Then you go back to playing undisciplined basketball, which we’re trying to get out of.

So are you saying when you worry about wins and losses, especially with a young team like this, the undisciplined basketball tends to show itself? 

Well, the bad habits that you are trying to break tend to come back, and you start playing desperation basketball. We don’t want to have to play desperation basketball where every player feels like they have to do more and play out of character 25 games into the season. At the same time, our expectations are to come out and win. It’s a learning curve, though, and that’s just the reality of what we have here. You’re putting a lot of young guys in a position where they’re playing a lot of minutes, and it takes a while to gel. That’s our situation, and it’s understood, and it helps that John, Trae and Kevin are going into another year. Those guys are going to play a lot of minutes, and they should feel more comfortable out there on the court because they’ve seen different situations now. I think every rookie in the history of the game would say that playing college basketball then learning the game the first month of the season was an adjustment period. It’s tough.

You’ve been on several different teams and obviously for 21 seasons now. Have you noticed if there’s a pattern on how long it usually takes for rookies, on average, to get adjusted? Or is it really just a case-by-case basis? 

Everyone is different. It could be a year where you’re just putting one guy into that situation or three guys into that situation like we had last year. It just all depends. Some guys learn and catch on at a faster rate. Let me rephrase that, actually. Some guys, the game slows down faster than it does for other guys. The game may slow down faster for De’Andre because he has more years of college basketball experience than Cam. You never know until you throw those guys out there.

Speaking of Cam, there were a lot of negative comments about him at Duke last year, whether it was on his inefficiency or some questioning his love of basketball. He went to Duke actually higher rated than Zion Williamson in the recruiting rankings, and a lot of people just felt he didn’t live up to expectations. How hard is it for a young guy to actually put that in the past and not have that in your mind, especially when you might struggle?  

What I would tell him is regardless of what was said, where was he drafted?

He was 10th. 

See, that’s a lottery pick. I mean (laughs), he was a lottery pick. For all what was said, he was a lottery pick. We all have our opinions about players and the expectations we might have for them. Yeah, he and others might have felt that he had a disappointing season, but the picture of it is someone felt that he was pretty darn good regardless of that OK season. When you’re playing with superstars like that, those things tend to happen. Your game takes a hit. You have to take a seat in the back to allow it all to work. Let’s say RJ (Barrett) and Cam decided they should be the guys, and they decided they should have been the ones to take all of the shots, Duke isn’t what they are. It looks different. His role on that team was still important. NBA scouts could still see his potential, and I’m telling you, he has unreal upside. For his height, his ability to move, his ability to shoot the ball and his feel for the game — he’s still young and has a lot to learn, but he listens, wants to learn and wants to get better. I think, deep down, he wants to prove that. I sit with him, and I’m not going to allow him to worry about the past. The first thing I would say to him if he does get those doubts is what I said at the beginning of this, “What pick were you? If they said you were disappointing and not that good, you probably wouldn’t be a lottery pick, but you are. You’re in the top 10, and it’s a dream for a lot of guys coming in.” You can’t take away being a lottery pick from anyone. From here, he now has to live up to that. You’re always going to have live up to something. I’m probably the wrong guy to talk to about this because I’m not going to let him get caught up with that. I see the potential he has. The future is bright for him, if he wants it to be.

 

Lloyd Pierce has said throughout preseason how advanced he thinks De’Andre is and how far along he thinks his game is. 

How many years of college did he do?

He played two seasons and redshirted one year. 

When you redshirt, you get to see everything.

You should also know that when he came out of high school, his coach told me he was around 180 pounds, and he left Virginia around 220, so he obviously put in a ton of work to get to this point. 

Wow. I mean, you can tell that he put in a lot of work. He has a great feel for the game already. He’s seasoned for his age. He’s another guy who just wants to be good, and he’s going to get there. It’s a different situation for him. De’Andre didn’t have superstars around him. Their style of play and culture is a little different.

He was college basketball’s best defender last year, but I’m not sure if many people realized his offensive skill set just because of the system Virginia runs. They’re not running up and down the floor like you guys. Have you been impressed with what he’s shown so far on that end? 

He has an NBA body already, and what I didn’t know coming into this is where his ability was to put the ball on the floor. I got here the first week, and I was watching him, well, watching them all really, and what I noticed with De’Andre is he shoots the ball well, can put the ball on the floor and uses his body really well. That’s very impressive because a lot of young guys rely on their athleticism more than the technique. He actually knows how to position his body and protect the ball. He’s ahead of the curve, I’ll tell you that.

I might as well ask you about the final rookie. Bruno looks raw, in my opinion, and I don’t know if he’s actually ready to contribute right away. Do you agree with that? 

Bruno is a guy who I think is very passionate. He’s very passionate.

He might be the loudest guy on the court. 

Right. He has a big personality, but he’s also a quiet person. He wants to be a very good player, and it sometimes gets in his way because of the perfection he’s trying to have on this court. He loves this game and loves to work at it. I think he has an opportunity to be good. He’s one of those guys that really should take his time, but he’s one of those guys who just wants it now. It’s like, “I worked for this. I worked so hard. I want this.” Sometimes he just needs to take a step back. But he’s like, “I’m ready for this. I’m ready for this and whatever I need to do, I will just figure it out.” It doesn’t work like that. You have to take a step back, figure it out first, so when you do step on the court, it’s easy for you. Those are the things that he needs to work on. Yes, he’s definitely raw, but with that being said, I think it’s easy to mold him into the player that the organization thinks he can be because he shoots the ball well and has a nice stroke. He has an NBA body and is physical as hell. I think his thing, right now, is to focus on the tangible things he does well right now and then let everything else come together in time. The quicker he buys into that, the better he’ll be early on. He’s a unique case because he’s not shy at all, and rookies are usually shy. He’s different. I wasn’t here Day 1, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he walked in here and said, “OK, I’m in the starting five. Who else is?” I like that, but that comes with responsibility, and he needs to understand that, and when he does, he’ll be fine.

I wanted to ask you about the second unit. With the way it’s constructed right now, you have Evan and Jabari Parker, two guys who haven’t been the best shooters in their career. DeAndre’ Bembry has struggled with his shot. Damian Jones and Bruno haven’t been shooters. With how it is constructed, one would think that the spacing is going to be an issue for that unit and points might be hard to come by. Do you look at that as concerning? 

It’s a veteran crew, and they all understand how to play. I think Coach has done a good job with our second unit in the five games we played to figure out how to win our time on the court. We know Jabari can put the ball in the basket. Yes, he’s a streaky shooter, but when you feel comfortable and when you figure out how to play together, good things can happen. I look at Evan as a gamer. When he needs to knock down shots or knock down a 3, we’ve seen him do it in his career. The numbers don’t say it, but he does it. He’s a gamer. Dre’ is getting better at it. He feels comfortable. I look at it as guys are shooting the ball with confidence and aren’t hesitant, regardless of what the numbers say. If you’re open, just catch it and fire away. I feel like his numbers will go up. We’re going to be doing a lot of shooting and have prepared guys for their situations. We do a lot of situational shooting, and I think that’s the best way to prepare instead of guys just shooting random 3-point shots in games in areas where they don’t shoot in practice. Watching DeAndre’ in preseason, I see added confidence with him. He made some 3s with distance. It’s just all about timing and being comfortable.

It’s not a surprise, but a lot of Hawks fans, and some analysts, think this team can sneak into the playoffs and possibly be the eighth seed. Do you realistically think it’s a possibility? 

That’s our goal.

Right. But the lack of experience this roster has, the turnover of this roster, the reliance on rookies. I mean, there are certainly a lot of question marks going into the season. 

I’ll say this, why would we go into the season thinking we couldn’t make it? If we don’t believe it now before the games are played, we have no shot once we go through that first time where we’re up and down and have those inconsistencies. We have to believe right now. You have to work and build that mentality right now. Yes, our inexperience and youth is a question mark. I get it. Our approach can sometimes fool our minds sometimes, but what we’re trying to do right now is come out here and prepare that we are destined for the playoffs. Maybe the numbers say differently. Maybe some analysts say differently. But if we don’t come out here and work that way then it’s not going to happen. I think we have an opportunity to come in. The first month-and-a-half is important for us, and that’s with our approach, more than anything. Obviously, we can make a final push at the end of the year and a big push at the All-Star break, but that first month is so important. Yes, we want to get as many wins as we can, but hopefully, we come out and play the right way in the beginning. If we’re not playing well, hopefully we’re still playing the right way so we can turn it around. We have to have that playoff mentality if we’re 0-6 or 6-0. It can’t change. That’s the process. We have to be consistent with how we work. We don’t have to gauge our wins and losses with how we prepare. If we can make that a mentality right now, it can happen and it wouldn’t be a surprise.

[JTB]

@NBASupes BIG Thanks! that was a great interview with VC...well worth the read.

[sturt]

Fwiw, I think summaries are probably okay, but straight copy-and-paste will eventually get the website in trouble.

 

As for this...

 

 

Answer: Based on Schlenk's comments and actions.

Most significantly, we're now on the downhill slide regarding draft picks, having now cashed-in most of our assets in that way, and without Schlenk having made any efforts to replenish the safe.

These are our guys.

Now we're going to see if we can develop them, and how soon.

If they win in the meantime, all the better, but that's not the focus just yet.

 

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Fwiw, I think summaries are probably okay, but straight copy-and-paste will eventually get the website in trouble.

 

As for this...

 

 

Answer: Based on Schlenk's comments and actions.

 

His actions made the team worse around Trae and Collins.  Len<<<Dedmon  Jones<<<<<<<<<Len.  Turner<<<<<<<Lin.  Bembry<<Bazemore.  Bruno<<<<Poytress

[sturt]

Peor, you just repeated yourself, and just elaborated a bit. And you self-evidently avoided attempting any counterpoint to the point made.

Not real effective.

Again, "somewhat interested in winning" doesn't mean the same thing as "interested in winning." Winning is icing on the cake. It nice. It's pretty. It's a plus. But it isn't the cake. Developing players is the cake.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

Peor, you just repeated yourself, and just elaborated a bit. And you self-evidently avoided attempting any counterpoint to the point made.

Not real effective.

Again, "somewhat interested in winning" doesn't mean the same thing as "interested in winning." Winning is icing on the cake. It nice. It's pretty. It's a plus. But it isn't the cake. Developing players is the cake.

Still doesn't make any sense...If Schlenk was more interested in winning this year vs last year, He would have put together a better roster this year.  But I see regardless of the facts, you are going to stick to your beliefs.  No problem

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

If Schlenk was more interested in winning this year vs last year, He would have put together a better roster this year.

Premise continues to be faulty... having a better or worse roster is not, on its own, an indication of level of interest in winning.. And, my friend, you just burned through yet another post without making any counterpoint to the previous point made.

 

Futile though it may be, I'll try to re-word in case that somehow helps (?)... last season and the season before Schlenk was actively interested in losing for the purpose of increasing the value of draft assets. THAT is NOT what's happening THIS season. Indeed, there is cold hard logic in not adding players to the roster who, though they may help you win in the short-term, are sponging up minutes from the younger guys who are the heart-and-soul of your long-term plans for challenging for a title.

 

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

But I see regardless of the facts, you are going to stick to your beliefs.

Fail. That's my line. Will you now go a third post without head-on responding with a counterpoint? Irrational for me to not stick to a conclusion when the other person doesn't even offer any response to the point made.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

 Indeed, there is cold hard logic in not adding players to the roster who, though they may help you win in the short-term, are sponging up minutes from the younger guys who are the heart-and-soul of your long-term plans for challenging for a title.

I'll ask you a direct question then just for clarification ...Who is this so called long term solution at back up point guard? Was it difficult to find a back up point guard.  What was the point of adding Parsons at $25 mil?  These were easy decision to make for a GM wanting to win more games but yet he chose the path to make the team worse. Why?

[AHF]

You don't need a long-term solution at backup point guard.  You can find backups in the draft or in FA every offseason.  You know I hate Turner at PG but that position pales compared to C.

[sturt]

@Peoriabird...

 

1) I don't know. But my follow-up... are you trying to develop a back-up point guard? And if so, why would you do that? Back-up PGs are, by nature, a dime a dozen. They are not the difference between winning titles and not.

 

2) I don't know. But my follow-up... is having Parsons instead of having Hill/Plumlee going to, in any universe real or imagined in comic books, going to have some impact on winning titles or not?

 

3) I've now humored you by answering DIRECTLY to your questions. Silly me to think you would reciprocate, and answer directly the assertions made above that support that we're at least somewhat interested this season in winning, at least compared to previous seasons.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

@Peoriabird...

 

1) I don't know. But my follow-up... are you trying to develop a back-up point guard? And if so, why would you do that? Back-up PGs are, by nature, a dime a dozen. They are not the difference between winning titles and not.

 

If they are a dime a dozen, why didn't we spend a penny to get 1?

[Atlantaholic]

I want this guy in our coaching staff next season if he indeed hangs them up.