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How Badly do we need a Center???


Diesel

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We already knew we were going to be bad at C. Bruno cannot playa big minutes and we should have invested on a Young big like Looney, Wood, Holmes, Bhirch or others.... just try them. We adquired Damian Jones instead, too soon to give un on him but we do not see much potential there.

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Are there any available C's we can test drive?

Wood doesn't count, at this point.  Seriously y'all.  He's on his 4th or 5th team in less than a year.  Clearly there's something amiss.

Do we overpay to kick Bamba's tires?  ORL is in win-now mode .. while developing Fultz .. I guess.  I don't know what they are.  Likely they don't know either.  Either way, they have Vucevic gobblin' up C minutes.  Plus Birch.  May as well at least ask what they want for the dude.

Any others getting squeezed out?

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14 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Are there any available C's we can test drive?

Wood doesn't count, at this point.  Seriously y'all.  He's on his 4th or 5th team in less than a year.  Clearly there's something amiss.

Do we overpay to kick Bamba's tires?  ORL is in win-now mode .. while developing Fultz .. I guess.  I don't know what they are.  Likely they don't know either.  Either way, they have Vucevic gobblin' up C minutes.  Plus Birch.  May as well at least ask what they want for the dude.

Any others getting squeezed out?

Agreed. lol at Wood..Bamba is just as raw as Bruno..Andrew Bogut? lol

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10 minutes ago, terrell said:

Agreed. lol at Wood..Bamba is just as raw as Bruno..Andrew Bogut? lol

Agree on Bamba.  I'm actually not a fan, just can't think of anyone else that could shake loose.

Bogut ain't coming here and I don't want him.  If you want an Australian C, look for Baynes.

I've seen some mention Drummond but ... ew, no.

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1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

He doesn't really fit with what we do honestly. 

That's the tough part. He doesn't. He fits to a degree, offensively but he still isn't the center we need with John. The center we need with John is Bruno in two years. 

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50 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Agree on Bamba.  I'm actually not a fan, just can't think of anyone else that could shake loose.

Bogut ain't coming here and I don't want him.  If you want an Australian C, look for Baynes.

I've seen some mention Drummond but ... ew, no.

Bogut was a  joke. I dont want him either.  lol

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20 hours ago, JTB said:

Nothing is wrong with that (Him being a project). I believe Bruno will show how quickly he can learn and I predicted over the summer he will be a starter at some point this season around the same time frame Huerter got his opportunity if we don’t make a trade of any sort.

however what sucks is how long the waiting process will be until coach LP says “hey we need to switch it up, we’re getting outmuscled on a regular “...that could take 2 months into the season or so ! Not just because LP don’t see it happening but more so because he may feel the need to NOT have a knee jerk reaction once it (bully ball) happens....or if it happens (which I believe it’s not truly fixed despite the decent performance vs ORL the other night )

my only real concern for wanting another center right now 

.....also let me clarify my own personal issue while I’m at it about our center position and just the big man positions period...my concern right now is strictly regarding physicality THATS IT. I’ve been preaching it all week I’m just concerned about the bully ball stuff cause that leads to easy points all  too often and it’s not a defensive fix. You can’t fix bully ball with defense that’s a fact but you can address it matching power with power.

Now Long term my concern is of course defense for the whole unit but right now I just simply want to see the bully ball stuff to stop!
 

why the teams sucks at defense?

its no new news this team defense sucks but why does the team defense suck ? That’s where i am! And let’s face it there’s a good number of reasons why but we have to address it one by one (my opinion anyways) and number 1 on my list? You guessed it! We are simply just too weak when collins is at the 5. Then the centers we have (all except the rookie Bruno) don’t show any power or physicality whatsoever and get bullied just as easy as JC. And other teams know this so attacking the rim vs the hawks is a must! ....they don’t need to perform post moves, euro steps, or any of that, the game plan for the opponent is simple  just got to run to the paint, back us down in the paint and lay it in! Smh 

 

so here’s where we are with what we have...

we have only one physical big man on the team in my opinion and he’s a rookie and he’s not yet ready to play any major minutes. So that’s why I’d love a trade to get Adams as he at the very least resolves our physicality issues at the rim but he happens to be a good defensive big man too who’s close enough in age with our young guys. Also They don’t call him the strongest guy in the nba for no reason.

 

JTB CONCLUSION FOR THIS TOPIC

once I see the bully ball is addressed on normal basis and we aren’t getting beat down like the step child then I will be happy to address other defensive problems this unit has but right now until our team shows that physicality won’t be the reason they can’t get stops I can’t even look at the other defensive issues.

I agree.  Being a project for him right now is true and it's good.  but your concerns.

1.  Bully Ball is one category.   I don't think every team will play Bully ball but right now we seem to lack physicality.   In the playoffs, it's the finesse teams that go out first.  People want to immolate the Golden State Warriors.   What they have failed to see is that beyond all that finesse, there's a lot of defense.  IN the years that they won, they definitely had a big man who could do something inside to go along with Klay, Iguodala and Green.  In the years that they didn't win... that element was missing or suspended.  The Cavs path to the championship over the warriors included hurting Bogut and suspending Green. 

2.  Our team defense is bad because both Trae and JC are below average defenders.   That gives defenses 2 targets to attack.  Usually you had a weak defender by having a strong defender paired with them.   However, Len doesn't fit the bill.   Bruno time only knows but he's not really pro sized yet.  At least not at Center. 

3.  You and I agree on Adams.   The other thing about Adams is that he gets points too. Teams will automatically crowd JC.  JC is a 20/10 PF.  It's good to have a guy like Adams who can get you 15 when you need them. 

 

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16 hours ago, NBASupes said:

That's the tough part. He doesn't. He fits to a degree, offensively but he still isn't the center we need with John. The center we need with John is Bruno in two years. 

I believe that had we drafted Adams and he was on the team, you wouldn't have this opinion at all.   IF we could be as complimentary and unobjective in evaluating their skillset about other players in the league as we are about ours, then this homerism wouldn't exist.  Adams would be a perfect fit next to JC.  Offensively and Defensively.   Especially defensively.   JC is a weak defender.  He needs a defensive anchor beside him at the 5.   We can't play Small ball with JC at the 5 and expect to win.   JC is no Draymond. Adams is a great fit because he can do the dirty work and he won't take touches away from Collins... yet he's an offensive enough threat that teams can't leave him to double JC. 

 

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2 hours ago, Diesel said:

I believe that had we drafted Adams and he was on the team, you wouldn't have this opinion at all.   IF we could be as complimentary and unobjective in evaluating their skillset about other players in the league as we are about ours, then this homerism wouldn't exist.  Adams would be a perfect fit next to JC.  Offensively and Defensively.   Especially defensively.   JC is a weak defender.  He needs a defensive anchor beside him at the 5.   We can't play Small ball with JC at the 5 and expect to win.   JC is no Draymond. Adams is a great fit because he can do the dirty work and he won't take touches away from Collins... yet he's an offensive enough threat that teams can't leave him to double JC. 

 

Being a great fit for JC doesn't equal being a great fit in our system. I've said this for awhile with Trae and a player like Michael Porter Jr. Great offensive fit with Trae but not a system fit for how we play. On defense, we need a defender who can cover ground. Adams isn't that guy. We need an elite defensive communicator, Adams isn't that guy. 

 

Now to your point, he is a much better fit for us than Len but Len isn't a NBA level starter so he would be a better fit at center for everyone over Len.

Say what you want, I honestly felt Dedmon fit JC quite well. I think someone like Baynes would fill in nicely too. I don't see Adams filling in better for what we do than those two even if he is a better player. 

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I know I'm old school here.  I think we gotta decide whether we want another 3pt shooter or not.  We should have plenty of 3 pt shooters on this team without having a 7 ft player at the 5 position.  Give me a rebounder and defensive player to clog the lane!

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16 hours ago, marco102 said:

I'm good with the center position, just wait for KAT or Embiid to want out and trade some assets for them.  Miss me with the role player centers. 

An aside, I'm not opposed to Adams, but if you're going to do a trade shoot for the top of the young big heap.

Any of these five names should never be uttered in trades unless you talking Giannis Antetokounmpo, KAT, or Embiid

 

Trae

Cam

Hunter 

Huerter 

Collins

 

This is Diesel, Kaman for Horford for this decade. Every ten to 15 years he dropped the worst trade proposal I've ever seen. 

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9 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

I know I'm old school here.  I think we gotta decide whether we want another 3pt shooter or not.  We should have plenty of 3 pt shooters on this team without having a 7 ft player at the 5 position.  Give me a rebounder and defensive player to clog the lane!

He is a drop coverage big like Len and unlike Dedmon, I think we are overestimating his defensive impact for us. 

Truth is, someone like Clint Capela would be such an ideal fit 

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HOW BADLY DO WE NEED A CENTER?

What we really need right now is work with the three centers on the roster right now and see what we really have.  Somehow, with the loss of Dedmon, many of us went into the panic mode. 

Len is working to become the most improved player in the NBA.  We traded away Spellman for a center who just wants a new start with his new team and our #36 Draft pick wants to show the other NBA teams that they erred when they didn't draft him when they had the opportunity.

Right now, we can't possibly know how bad we need a center until we see the centers that we already have play some with the Hawks and with their system.

Maybe we really, really need another center.  Maybe not.  Time will tell,  When we get down to the trade deadline, then we should really know.  And, by that time, there may be a center available to fill our needs and expectations.  If not then, perhaps we draft him next summer.

Going for the playoffs this season and going for 1st place in 24 months.  We're gaining on it!!

GO ATL HAWKS !!

:yahoo:

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4 hours ago, Diesel said:

2.  Our team defense is bad because both Trae and JC are below average defenders.  

I don't agree with this.  Trae showed tremendous defense in the last game by the way.  But my point is that our team defense was bad even when those guys were off the floor. 

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19 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't agree with this.  Trae showed tremendous defense in the last game by the way.  But my point is that our team defense was bad even when those guys were off the floor. 

Trae had a good game on D but remains way below the curve there.  You are right about the overall team, though.  Young players usually take a few years to really get going on D and that is where we are combined with a hole in the middle.  Most of our lineup needs to improve to get to average and the team as a whole needs to step up to play as a unit.  That means getting to where LP can actually put in a system.  He’s been running guys through the baby basics to date.

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5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Trae had a good game on D but remains way below the curve there.  You are right about the overall team, though.  Young players usually take a few years to really get going on D and that is where we are combined with a hole in the middle.  Most of our lineup needs to improve to get to average and the team as a whole needs to step up to play as a unit.  That means getting to where LP can actually put in a system.  He’s been running guys through the baby basics to date.

People want to pretend that John and Trae are the only below average defenders on this team.  Just find that asinine. I think Dominique said it best...If Vucevic played against the rest of the league the way he plays against the Hawks, He would be a 1st ballot Hall of famer!

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