While I think it's due to the teams we played v. More than anything, Collins has been terrible so far this preseason

[NBASupes]

Offensively, he has struggled a lot.

Defensively, he has had moments where he made a good play but far too many moments where I seen Zion, Okafor, Issac and even Aminu bully him while attacking the basket like he doesn't exist. 

 

Pels have the #1 rated defender via Draymond in Favors and an elite potential defender in Zion and Orlando frontcourt defense was one of the best in the NBA last season and I expect it to be even better this year. 

 

No excuses but I think this stands out as much as Len/Jones struggles. If not more because more is expected. 

 

Then again, this was always going to be a tough matchup for him. Next game is the Heat. A team he tends to play well v. And causing matchup problems for.

[HawkItus]

I have always felt he is the odd man out when the time comes.  6th man maybe to anchor the 2nd unit.  Or traded to lift us to the next level.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I have always felt he is the odd man out when the time comes.  6th man maybe to anchor the 2nd unit.  Or traded to lift us to the next level.

I've always said that he is a 6th man till Trae came. Truth is, his best role is the Harrell role. Forcing him to be Karl Malone will work in the regular season as movement is hard to contain but really, in the playoffs, you can slow guys like him down too easy in the playoffs. Just imagine a playoff series v. Milwaukee or Orlando. 

We would get killed. That's why my hope in this team is firmly on Hunter, Cam and Trae.

 

LP is right, going 19 and 9 again is actually good. The reason we sucked so bad without him last year was we had no one at PF to back him up. Omari and Poythress sucked, VC is old. This year we got Jabari who has outplayed him in each game by a major margin.

Edited October 10, 2019 by NBASupes

[High5]

My only concern with Collins is if the attempts to expand his game don't really work out and he keeps trying to force it. He doesn't need to be that guy, but he probably feels the pressure to step up now that he has more minutes in a Hawks jersey than anyone else on the team. Either way, I'm not going to take much away from the first 2 preseason games.

[JTB]

Well this is why I always said JC is our Amare Stoudamire type player. He’s doesn’t throw it down as viciously as Amare but you have to let him be who he is on offense!...a finisher not a playmaker.

set screens on and off ball, continue to have a high bbiq on when to roll or when to pop, continue the good rebounding activity around the goal, put effort in on defense....and most importantly (This is one for LP) play him at the 4!

i am not ready to give up on collins until this same type of play come against guys with identical frames and sizes.

 

.....I think collins isn’t getting groomed properly. I read the other day LP say  he wants collins to be more of a playmaker and I think it’s went to collins head too much to be a facilitator cause he too mentioned the need of him “making plays”....no sir! Focus on setting screens, off ball movement, taking good shots, and defense. Period.

Edited October 10, 2019 by JTB

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, HawkItus said:

I have always felt he is the odd man out when the time comes.  6th man maybe to anchor the 2nd unit.  Or traded to lift us to the next level.

Collins is the odd man out? Without him we might have the worst PF/C situation in the NBA. We should consider a trade with Orlando or Sacramento, they have great front court depth.

[JTB]

https://clutchpoints.com/hawks-news-lloyd-pierce-wants-to-see-john-collins-become-more-of-a-facilitator-this-2019-20-season/

 

it sounded good in the beginning but in the words of @NBASupes this plan , approach, or whatever may be “cheeks”

Edited October 10, 2019 by JTB

[JayBirdHawk]

I think it's 3 things:

1.

 

 

2. They are asking him to do different things to expand his offensive game, it's preseason so it's ok to experiment to see what will or won't work, until the real season starts. I don't think he'll be asked to change his overall game, but rather add to it over time. It'll take time to incorporate varying nuances to help him grow and expand his game as a facilitator. I would hope CLP recognizes when to scale it back if it's not working effectively when the real games begin. It's a work in progress that may take awhile (see Blake Griffin).

 

3.

 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

Collins Critics after 2 preseason games...That didn't take long.  Funny thing is if others struggle, its just preseason.

[NBASupes]

33 minutes ago, JTB said:

Well this is why I always said JC is our Amare Stoudamire type player. He’s doesn’t throw it down as viciously as Amare but you have to let him be who he is on offense!...a finisher not a playmaker.

set screens on and off ball, continue to have a high bbiq on when to roll or when to pop, continue the good rebounding activity around the goal, put effort in on defense....and most importantly (This is one for LP) play him at the 4!

i am not ready to give up on collins until this same type of play come against guys with identical frames and sizes.

 

.....I think collins isn’t getting groomed properly. I read the other day LP say  he wants collins to be more of a playmaker and I think it’s went to collins head too much to be a facilitator cause he too mentioned the need of him “making plays”....no sir! Focus on setting screens, off ball movement, taking good shots, and defense. Period.

Ya'll don't remember Amare well. Amare wasn't a movement monster, he was a 1v1 monster like Griffin who couldn't be guarded with just one defender. Collins is a movement player like Malone. He is a highly assisted big. He needs someone to setup his meals. Amare style is more like Bagley

Edited October 10, 2019 by NBASupes

[JTB]

16 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ya'll don't remember Amare well. Amare wasn't a movement monster, he was a 1v1 monster like Griffin who couldn't be guarded with just one defender. Collins is a movement player like Malone. He is a highly assisted big. He needs someone to setup his meals. Amare style is more like Bagley

Ok I recall Amare always setting screens for Nash like non stop...but either way I agree collins has to be feed

[macdaddy]

These games have been glorified playground ball.   Collins excels when we're actually running plays.  I think he'll be fine.  

[HawkItus]

never said he was a bad player.  I just know that teams with our talent collection can't keep everyone.  Either through injury, contract, or rotation....guys get sifted.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Happens a lot in sports.  A rookie or semi-pro comes in as unknowns and dominate for a short while, but as soon as opposing team's start getting film on that player, he starts to struggle. Collins is effective snagging rebounds and getting second-chance points. He just has to keep developing his game and finding new way to be effective.

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

Ok I recall Amare always setting screens for Nash like non stop...but either way I agree collins has to be feed

He did but that was all of the movement he did. Collins effectiveness is his movement like Malone. Those two kept moving nonstop (Stockton and Malone). People might remember the PnR but that wasn't why they were so effective. 

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

Happens a lot in sports.  A rookie or semi-pro comes in as unknowns and dominate for a short while, but as soon as opposing team's start getting film on that player, he starts to struggle. Collins is effective snagging rebounds and getting second-chance points. He just has to keep developing his game and finding new way to be effective.

He will always be effective. Being elite at movement will always have an impact. But if Giannis ever became available, I am shipping him out in a min

[JTB]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He did but that was all of the movement he did. Collins effectiveness is his movement like Malone. Those two kept moving nonstop (Stockton and Malone). People might remember the PnR but that wasn't why they were so effective. 

Ok ok I there now ...I do agree with that and what you’re saying .

 

[AHF]

6 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Collins Critics after 2 preseason games...That didn't take long.  Funny thing is if others struggle, its just preseason.

It’s just preseason.  JC has shown he belongs.

[hazer]

Collins is playing hurt. El-P is experimenting with his role. Because it’s preseason. He’s one of our best players and will be an All-Star this year. 

[Diesel]

 Thread.