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Gray Mule

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hace 4 horas, Peoriabird dijo:

Even after what happened in this last draft, people still have the more loses = better draft pick mentality.  Wake up people.  It doesn't work like that anymore.  Plus who or what position are you targeting in next year's draft anyway?

I am comparing chances on draft between going to playoff or finishing in top 8 of worst teams, yeah there is a difference.... Considering our need is a C and the best 2 will be top 10 or even top 5. Put a good C on this team and things will change a lot.

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4 hours ago, gurpilo said:

I am comparing chances on draft between going to playoff or finishing in top 8 of worst teams, yeah there is a difference.... Considering our need is a C and the best 2 will be top 10 or even top 5. Put a good C on this team and things will change a lot.

Bruno FerNAAAAANdo on line 3 🤙

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4 hours ago, gurpilo said:

I am comparing chances on draft between going to playoff or finishing in top 8 of worst teams, yeah there is a difference.... Considering our need is a C and the best 2 will be top 10 or even top 5. Put a good C on this team and things will change a lot.

If you are counting on a drafted center to come in and have an immediate impact next, you might be disappointed.  That doesn't usually happen therefore you are adding another year of development to your team.  Look at Aton, Mbamba, and Wendell Carter...Neither of whom has made an impact on their teams.  In fact, there maybe as many non lottery center impacting their team as lottery centers.  We should not shoot for the lottery anymore.  The players are itching to win and I say let them win.  Otherwise they will get discouraged and want to leave a losing situation.

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hace 45 minutos, Peoriabird dijo:

If you are counting on a drafted center to come in and have an immediate impact next, you might be disappointed.  That doesn't usually happen therefore you are adding another year of development to your team.  Look at Aton, Mbamba, and Wendell Carter...Neither of whom has made an impact on their teams.  In fact, there maybe as many non lottery center impacting their team as lottery centers.  We should not shoot for the lottery anymore.  The players are itching to win and I say let them win.  Otherwise they will get discouraged and want to leave a losing situation.

Did I said that? I am not counting on this team to make noise inmediately. I think we have a hole at C and we need to fill it. I don't think Bruno is the answer based on what I have seen. I think this team could be in a position of makinf noise un 3-4 years if we are able to retain the players. Same happened to GSW, abd same to Phily.

1 hour ago, hazer dijo:

Bruno FerNAAAAANdo on line 3 🤙

Sorry I don't rhink he is the answer.

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1 hour ago, AHF said:

Why does NO not turn the ball over as much as us?

 

Their lead guard Holiday has 10 years of experience.  Their PG has an additional year of experience over Trae.  Their SG has 13 years of experience.  Their SF has  3 years of experience.

 

Our PG and SG were rookies last year.  Our conbo wing is a rookie.  Our SF is a rookie.

 

They also have a bunch of guys ( even rookies ) who can put the ball on the floor and get their own shot.   To Supes point, they're making it a point to play to their strengths, and not just pass the ball around all willy nilly.  As ball dominant that Holiday and Ball could be, they aren't being ball dominant at all, mainly because everything isn't based off of the pick and roll.

Trae is averaging 8 turnovers in 3 games.  We all know he's not going to average anywhere near this once the season starts, but turnovers have always been an issue with him.  It's why it is very important that his off the ball game be developed, instead of him being so ball dominant.

 

 

 

Edited by TheNorthCydeRises
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5 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

They also have a bunch of guys ( even rookies ) who can put the ball on the floor and get their own shot.   To Supes point, they're making it a point to play to their strengths, and not just pass the ball around all willy nilly.  As ball dominant that Holiday and Ball could be, they aren't being ball dominant at all, mainly because everything isn't based off of the pick and roll.

Trae is averaging 8 turnovers in 3 games.  We all know he's not going to average anywhere near this once the season starts, but turnovers have always been an issue with him.  It's why it is very important that his off the ball game be developed, instead of him being so ball dominant.

 

 

 

Trae's turnovers aren't an issue at all. 

Last year, 3.9 TO / 7.6 AST before  AS break, 3.4 TO / 9.2 AST after AS break. (in more minutes). 

Since when is a 2.5-1 Assist to TO ratio indicative of a "turnover problem" for a PG just one year into his career?

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On 10/12/2019 at 10:51 AM, High5 said:

Please explain how Denver and Philly are younger than us since you obviously aren't using human years. 

2018-2019 Average Age List

AVG AGE Dallas Mavericks 27.7 Miami Heat 27.7 San Antonio Spurs 27.5 Los Angeles Clippers 27.4 Houston Rockets 27.4 Golden State Warriors 27.4 Cleveland Cavaliers 27.3 Washington Wizards 27.2 Toronto Raptors 26.7 Minnesota Timberwolves 26.6 Detroit Pistons 26.5 Memphis Grizzlies 26.4 Utah Jazz 26.1 New Orleans Pelicans 25.9 Charlotte Hornets 25.9 Atlanta Hawks 25.6 Milwaukee Bucks 25.6 Oklahoma City Thunder 25.5 Philadelphia 76ers 25.3 Brooklyn Nets 25.3 Boston Celtics 25.3 Sacramento Kings 25.1 Indiana Pacers 25.1 Orlando Magic 25.0 Phoenix Suns 24.8 Chicago Bulls 24.7 Los Angeles Lakers 24.6 New York Knicks 24.6 Denver Nuggets 24.4 Portland Trail Blazers 24.3

It's Vince. 

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On 10/12/2019 at 2:31 PM, NBASupes said:

Not really. 

The bolded was good. The other is shit. The shit part is why I just moved from his point in general. 

Here is right about several things: 

TS job is team building

He is right about potential stars with vets. 

He is right about the right mix of potential and vet play. 

Here is right about that. 

 

Where he is completely wrong at: 

You don't trade players with LEGIT potential for vets unless the vet is a game-changer. 

 

Let's look at the best build home grow squads that have been Golden State and Denver in the last 10 years. 

Each of them maintains their young assets and refused to trade them unless it didn't work (Mudiay and D. Jones)

Both only made moves with draft assets and cap space (Iggy and Millsap)

 

That's how you build your team. You NEVER trade legit potential unless it's for a game-changer. Harrison Barnes who had legit potential was traded so they can land Kevin Durant. Legit game changer. 

It's that simple. 

The Golden State Warriors have acquired veteran guard/forward Andre Iguodala (E-gu-doll-a) in a sign-and-trade deal from the Denver Nuggets and guard Kevin Murphy from the Utah Jazz as part of a three-team trade, it was announced today. As part of the deal, the Warriors sent center Andris Biedrins, forward Richard Jefferson and guard/forward Brandon Rush, along with two future first round (2014 & 2017), two future second round (2016 & 2017) draft picks and cash considerations, to the Jazz, as well as a future second round (2018) draft pick to the Nuggets. The Nuggets also received guard Randy Foye in a sign-and-trade deal from Utah, while the Jazz also received a future second round (2018) pick from Denver.

How much potential is 2 first rounders, 2 2nd rounders, and 3 players for a guy who wasn't at an allstar level at the time going to a team that wasn't championship material at the time?

Also...

Milwaukee will receive Ellis, Ekpe Udoh and Kwame Brown in the deal, while Golden State winds up with Bogut and swingman Stephen Jackson.  

By the way.. Udoh was the 6th pick of the draft in 2010.  He was 6'10 and 245...  i won't even talk about Monta here....

 

 

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2 hours ago, Diesel said:

2018-2019 Average Age List

AVG AGE Dallas Mavericks 27.7 Miami Heat 27.7 San Antonio Spurs 27.5 Los Angeles Clippers 27.4 Houston Rockets 27.4 Golden State Warriors 27.4 Cleveland Cavaliers 27.3 Washington Wizards 27.2 Toronto Raptors 26.7 Minnesota Timberwolves 26.6 Detroit Pistons 26.5 Memphis Grizzlies 26.4 Utah Jazz 26.1 New Orleans Pelicans 25.9 Charlotte Hornets 25.9 Atlanta Hawks 25.6 Milwaukee Bucks 25.6 Oklahoma City Thunder 25.5 Philadelphia 76ers 25.3 Brooklyn Nets 25.3 Boston Celtics 25.3 Sacramento Kings 25.1 Indiana Pacers 25.1 Orlando Magic 25.0 Phoenix Suns 24.8 Chicago Bulls 24.7 Los Angeles Lakers 24.6 New York Knicks 24.6 Denver Nuggets 24.4 Portland Trail Blazers 24.3

It's Vince. 

VC doesn't factor into our readiness to compete. Not counting him, our top 13 guys average out to exactly 24. And, more importantly, 4/5 of our starting lineup is 22 or younger.

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3 hours ago, Diesel said:

The Golden State Warriors have acquired veteran guard/forward Andre Iguodala (E-gu-doll-a) in a sign-and-trade deal from the Denver Nuggets and guard Kevin Murphy from the Utah Jazz as part of a three-team trade, it was announced today. As part of the deal, the Warriors sent center Andris Biedrins, forward Richard Jefferson and guard/forward Brandon Rush, along with two future first round (2014 & 2017), two future second round (2016 & 2017) draft picks and cash considerations, to the Jazz, as well as a future second round (2018) draft pick to the Nuggets. The Nuggets also received guard Randy Foye in a sign-and-trade deal from Utah, while the Jazz also received a future second round (2018) pick from Denver.

How much potential is 2 first rounders, 2 2nd rounders, and 3 players for a guy who wasn't at an allstar level at the time going to a team that wasn't championship material at the time?

Also...

Milwaukee will receive Ellis, Ekpe Udoh and Kwame Brown in the deal, while Golden State winds up with Bogut and swingman Stephen Jackson.  

By the way.. Udoh was the 6th pick of the draft in 2010.  He was 6'10 and 245...  i won't even talk about Monta here....

 

 

Monta didn't fit with Steph. I see that being our Prince trade. A player who just didn't fit and his replacement (Klay) was ready to start. It was a good deal for GS and a bad deal for MIL as Ellis didn't fit their either. 

 

Iggy was a SnT for cap space or in this case expiring contracts like (AB who I need had little guaranteed if any at all due to his contract structure with the old CBA and RJ who had the same thing) This is where the trade was about draft assets. 

 

Once again, none of these teams traded legit potential at all. It was draft assets. Ellis wasn't a legit potential to them anymore and they moved from him as Klay was on the horizon. 

 

Udoh was an instant bust. That's like saying Anthony Bennett was the 1st pick or Williams out of Zona was 2nd overall. He had no legit potential at all. Even then, this trade was seen as one all about the draft assets. I think TS said as much in an interview. 

Edited by NBASupes
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Tonight, we come to the end of the greatest time between games this season.  Hawks have played two pre season games and have had several days of practice and teaching from LP and staff.  So much yet to do.  Players seem to be coming together as a team.  Young players and VC returning.  New players coming here and three new rookies getting their toes in the water of the NBA.

Huerter remains inactive to play.  We haven't played our projected starting five yet.  As our returning Hawks get the rust off their game and all the new players learn to play together, learning how we as a team plays, things will improve.

Season opener is coming up fast.  Ready or not, the games that count are just around the corner.  Hawks should look better tonight.

GO ATL HAWKS !!

:dance3:

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14 hours ago, Diesel said:

The Golden State Warriors have acquired veteran guard/forward Andre Iguodala (E-gu-doll-a) in a sign-and-trade deal from the Denver Nuggets and guard Kevin Murphy from the Utah Jazz as part of a three-team trade, it was announced today. As part of the deal, the Warriors sent center Andris Biedrins, forward Richard Jefferson and guard/forward Brandon Rush, along with two future first round (2014 & 2017), two future second round (2016 & 2017) draft picks and cash considerations, to the Jazz, as well as a future second round (2018) draft pick to the Nuggets. The Nuggets also received guard Randy Foye in a sign-and-trade deal from Utah, while the Jazz also received a future second round (2018) pick from Denver.

How much potential is 2 first rounders, 2 2nd rounders, and 3 players for a guy who wasn't at an allstar level at the time going to a team that wasn't championship material at the time?

Also...

Milwaukee will receive Ellis, Ekpe Udoh and Kwame Brown in the deal, while Golden State winds up with Bogut and swingman Stephen Jackson.  

By the way.. Udoh was the 6th pick of the draft in 2010.  He was 6'10 and 245...  i won't even talk about Monta here....

 

 

Monta was a 6 year player, traded for Bogut, GSW realized he didn't fit with Curry and wanted it to be Curry's team. Curry was going into his 4th year, Klay going into his 2nd year, Green and Barnes were rookies.

The following year Iggy signed with them as a FA via SnT.

So this example doesn't show GSW giving up any of their young players with high potential - they traded future picks.

Regarding Udoh, Schlenk noted recently that Udoh was a wrong pick for them, they drafted for need, they needed a C, instead of taking best player availble, said it was the one mistake he'd not like to repeat.

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21 hours ago, turnermx said:

Trae's turnovers aren't an issue at all. 

Last year, 3.9 TO / 7.6 AST before  AS break, 3.4 TO / 9.2 AST after AS break. (in more minutes). 

Since when is a 2.5-1 Assist to TO ratio indicative of a "turnover problem" for a PG just one year into his career?

I remember reading an article way back in 2006-2007 I think, and it stated that a high turnover rate in a young PGs is actually a positive indicator of their potential (obviously coupled with a high assist rate). Low turnover / lower assist guards usually had much lower ceilings. 

Edited by Atlantaholic
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On 10/14/2019 at 1:04 PM, Atlantaholic said:

I remember reading an article way back in 2006-2007 I think, and it stated that a high turnover rate in a young PGs is actually a positive indicator of their potential (obviously coupled with a high assist rate). Low turnover / lower assist guards usually had much lower ceilings. 

I remember that as well.  It was born out by the numbers and makes sense.  Guys who are pushing themselves to do more before their game is refined are the ones who end up doing more down the road.  Along the way they generate more turnovers when they are raw.  Guys who stay in their lane and do less have much lower TO rates because they aren't asked to do as much.  Doesn't mean that turnovers are good -- just that they are usually a sign that a coaching staff thinks the young player can develop into more and give them more responsibility early in their career.

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1 hour ago, Sothron said:

I think our team is built fine for modern NBA. We are missing a great center but perhaps Bruno can be there. If nothing else solid but not great bigs like Len can fit the bill.

Len is just a "killing time" big man or a helpful reserve.  He isn't a starter on a team that wants to win.

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Just now, AHF said:

Len is just a "killing time" big man or a helpful reserve.  He isn't a starter on a team that wants to win.

I don't know if I would agree with that. He can board, block shots, hustle score and now has a legit 3 point game. He's not Hakeem but hell the Sonics took the other Ervin Johnson to a Finals.

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Just now, Sothron said:

I don't know if I would agree with that. He can board, block shots, hustle score and now has a legit 3 point game. He's not Hakeem but hell the Sonics took the other Ervin Johnson to a Finals.

The other Ervin Johnson was a much better defender than Len while Len is a better scorer.  They are about equal as rebounders.  It was easy to carry a guy who wasn't so well-rounded back when you could stick a big man away from the action and it was an illegal defense if his man sagged off him.  You could then just have a solid defender and be fine when you had someone like Kemp as the other half of the big man combo.  Len would be a defensive liability in any era and his scoring and rebounding don't do enough to make up for it.  He is much better as a reserve who can be used in matchup specific circumstances to help him succeed than as someone who needs to take on the opponent's best center.

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6 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I don't know if I would agree with that. He can board, block shots, hustle score and now has a legit 3 point game. He's not Hakeem but hell the Sonics took the other Ervin Johnson to a Finals.

Different era. Alex would have been fine in that era

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