News and Notes: Updated between Games

[Thomas]

32 minutes ago, marco102 said:

@Spud2nique I was about 4 or 5 for the McHale/Bird team.  I won't be able to make a comment (rofl).

You missed the Magic/Bird battles? Julius was in there a bit too. Frackin great stuff as in legendary stuff. Memories...

[Vol4ever]

McHale was a low post beast with those long arms.  I dont think there are 3% of the players in the league today that could hang down low with any of the players mention by @Spud2nique

[capstone21]

McHale was a great second banana ... he played the role perfectly

personally I think Hakeem was the greatest center of all time 

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Random thoughts on NBA radio this morning.

 

1. They said Kevin McHale was a badass. I agree. They said he would have put up monster numbers if he “had his own team.” I disagree. @Thomas @NBASupes@Gray Mule @Sothron @Vol4ever @thecampster @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @AHF @marco102 @turnermx @lethalweapon3 @capstone21 @Buzzard and others thoughts? I just think he got a lotta looks from Bird being doubled and Parish being a problem as well. I was a kid though around 10-12 so I don’t recall as much when McHale was indeed a badass worthy of carrying his own team.

2. They also discussed the Knicks surprising 8th seed trip to the finals in 99 and how they swept us in round 2, end of an era for us. They said the Pacers lost their chance and it should been Pacers in the finals but even then the Spurs would have won behind the Admiral and Duncan. I agree.

3. Dove into Hakeem/Admiral/Ewing debate and how Hakeem stands above the other two and solidified that in the absent Jordan years when he stepped up big. Then they said they would rank the Admiral above Ewing overall due to Robinson’s superior defense to Ewing (I agree). Admiral offense >Ewing’s D  

 

Random thoughts ? 

Kevin McHale is the greatest low post player in the  history of the NBA.

I'll let that sink in for a bit. If he was on another team where he was the first scoring option he easily averages 30 or more a game. He not only had to share points with Bird and Parrish but also rebounds. He was an excellent rebounder. He also was a great defender with outstanding shot blocking instincts and technique. The joke was he was the Black Hole because once the ball goes in it does not come back out. When you score as efficiently as McHale did and having to share shots with others that's not an insult. The only thing I can't see him doing stats wise is getting a lot of assists. Maybe that changes but when you had his incredible technique and scoring touch you don't need to find a better shot. You ARE the best shot on every possession.

I only have one Celtic jersey in my collection. It is not Bird's. It is McHale. 

[Spud2nique]

12 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

personally I think Hakeem was the greatest center of all time 

Yes siiiirrr! I lived in Houston as a kid loved him.

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Kevin McHale is the greatest low post player in the  history of the NBA.

I’ve heard that and it still wows me. 

14 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I only have one Celtic jersey in my collection. It is not Bird's. It is McHale. 

You have a What now? Soth, edit and quickly erase nobody will see you have a Celts Jersey. 
 

ps I have an Antoine Celts too  

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I'll let that sink in for a bit. If he was on another team where he was the first scoring option he easily averages 30 or more a game.

I don’t disagree because I think he got as high as 26ppg on the Celts with Bird. But what if he was on the 85 Knicks or something with a rookie Ewing, and whoever else they had. I remember the Knicks were terrible in the mid 80’s for a minute before the late 80’s. Would McHale have had those 85 Knicks in the playoffs?

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

Julius

I miss this a lot! One of my fav non Hawk moments of all time. I kinda loved both of these actually. I had to add the 2nd after the 1st.

 

 

 

[Spud2nique]

By the by, I’m sorry I called everyone out today to hear from them. I was starting to feel like Rambo here at the 2:15 mark!

 

Red 58 Chevy convertible! Ride it till the wheels falls off.

 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

I just remember getting mad that teams couldn't stop that low post move!

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Kevin McHale is the greatest low post player in the  history of the NBA.

 

Nah!  Chamberlain easily!

[Spud2nique]

40 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I just remember getting mad that teams couldn't stop that low post move!

Ya me too! As a kid specially, I thought damn McHale lumbers how are they not stopping that?  

31 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Nah!  Chamberlain easily!

Ya this for me, even though never saw him live. The tapes prove it. Him or Shaq I’d say.

[Thomas]

12 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I miss this a lot! One of my fav non Hawk moments of all time. I kinda loved both of these actually. I had to add the 2nd after the 1st.

 

 

 

Hey now. Violence begets violence. Still very entertaining stuff there though.

[Thomas]

11 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I just remember getting mad that teams couldn't stop that low post move!

If the refs actually called a straight game on the Celts back then no one would have to stop that move. Yeah, am exaggerating a good bit but it did get to the borderline ridiculous point over the years. A "young" Nique was called for traveling a lot and then MJ came into the league and Nike told the NBA it is not traveling anymore so...

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, Thomas said:

Nike told the NBA it is not traveling anymore so...

The baby hop gather explode was Nique’s signature move. I’m glad the refs learned to understand it and not call traveling on it. Later that move was adopted by guys like the rock Mitch Richmond and others.

But ya, sir Jordan gets all the calls.

[AHF]

18 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Good stuff AHF. Do you look this stuff up or all upstairs ? I mean again I was around 10 years old in the mid 80’s but I don’t remember McHale being as good as describes by the likes of Charles Barkley and others. Then I think geez, why would Barkley build up McHale if he wasn’t good? So, I guess good yes, great, maybe no? 

I saw the question and basically said to myself:  

"Bird missed a season so this should be really easy to test.  Did his scoring explode when he became the first option for virtually an entire season?  If not, then images of McHale averaged 30 points on 60% shooting are probably pure fantasy."

And looking at the numbers, I think they should pretty dramatically that he wasn't that explosive scorer some fantasize him to be.  He had one season scoring over 22.6 points per game for his entire career.  His scoring moved from 22.6 as the secondary option to 22.5 as the primary option.  Took a few more shots per game but the reduction in his efficiency when teams could focus on him more than offset the increased points from those additional shot attempts year over year.

I just don't see any evidence that he would have been a monster if he had only played the #1 option.

But...

16 hours ago, Sothron said:

Kevin McHale is the greatest low post player in the  history of the NBA.

I'll let that sink in for a bit. If he was on another team where he was the first scoring option he easily averages 30 or more a game. He not only had to share points with Bird and Parrish but also rebounds. He was an excellent rebounder. He also was a great defender with outstanding shot blocking instincts and technique. The joke was he was the Black Hole because once the ball goes in it does not come back out. When you score as efficiently as McHale did and having to share shots with others that's not an insult. The only thing I can't see him doing stats wise is getting a lot of assists. Maybe that changes but when you had his incredible technique and scoring touch you don't need to find a better shot. You ARE the best shot on every possession.

I only have one Celtic jersey in my collection. It is not Bird's. It is McHale. 

Out of respect for Sothron, let's give this a better test.  Maybe a full season of playing without Bird just happened to be a bad season for McHale and he really blew up when handed the ball as the #1 option.

Here are McHale's numbers when Bird was missing during his age 25-29 seasons:

Weighted* Seasonal Average PPG:  23.57

Average PPG When Bird Was Missing:  23.92

 

Average Per Game Increase In Games Without Bird:  0.35 points

 

Highest Point Total: 37

Lowest Point Total:  12

% of Games 30+:  23.1%

% of Games Below 20:  30.1%

 

So I don't see how anyone gets to the idea that McHale is an easy 30 ppg player if he is the #1 option.

We saw an entire season of him as the #1 option and he averaged 22.5 ppg.  We saw the prime of his career and when focusing on games where he was the #1 option without Bird, he was nowhere close to 30 and barely changed from his season average with Bird.

 

* - Note that this is a weighted average calculated by taking McHale overall season average for that particular season and multiplying that times the number of games he played that year that Bird missed; after doing this for all season that was divided by the total number of games he played that Bird missed over that 5 year span.  The largest number of games that Bird missed took place during McHale's career high season where he averaged 26.1 ppg which led to a weighted average well above his total average over that age 25-29 period.

 

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

The largest number of games that Bird missed took place during McHale's career high season where he averaged 26.1 ppg which led to a weighted average well above his total average over that age 25-29 period.

When I saw that McHale avg 26 points a game for the season, I was shocked. Again, Soth is right he was a monster and one of the best low post scorers but I’m in the camp that says he couldn’t have carried a team to any conference finals if he had his own, maybe the playoffs, but without Bird and Parish, it had to be different.

 

I want to see if I can dig up some Kevin McHale college highlights. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him at Minny. Again when he was in his prime, I was like 10 years old.

 

Thats deep stuff @AHF nice.

[turnermx]

19 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Random thoughts on NBA radio this morning.

 

1. They said Kevin McHale was a badass. I agree. They said he would have put up monster numbers if he “had his own team.” I disagree. @Thomas @NBASupes@Gray Mule @Sothron @Vol4ever @thecampster @kg01 @JayBirdHawk @AHF @marco102 @turnermx @lethalweapon3 @capstone21 @Buzzard and others thoughts? I just think he got a lotta looks from Bird being doubled and Parish being a problem as well. I was a kid though around 10-12 so I don’t recall as much when McHale was indeed a badass worthy of carrying his own team.

2. They also discussed the Knicks surprising 8th seed trip to the finals in 99 and how they swept us in round 2, end of an era for us. They said the Pacers lost their chance and it should been Pacers in the finals but even then the Spurs would have won behind the Admiral and Duncan. I agree.

3. Dove into Hakeem/Admiral/Ewing debate and how Hakeem stands above the other two and solidified that in the absent Jordan years when he stepped up big. Then they said they would rank the Admiral above Ewing overall due to Robinson’s superior defense to Ewing (I agree). Admiral offense >Ewing’s D  

 

Random thoughts ? 

Hiya Spud! Kevin McHale to me was a system player, give him an average supporting cast I don't think he was good enough to put up monster numbers with any kind of efficiency. He had a slick post game but with Bird and Parish playing alongside him he had more room to operate that wouldn't have been there were he surrounded by lesser guys (90% of the league lol). 

[Spud2nique]

Welcome to Klutch Trae!

 

 

[Vol4ever]

While talking McHale and Bird you just cant leave out Robert Parish.