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News and Notes: Updated between Games

JayBirdHawk

By JayBirdHawk
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JayBirdHawk
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TheFuzz
TheFuzz

That backs sore for carrying us night in, night out. Gotta get the little fella some help

JayBirdHawk
JayBirdHawk

As long as Travis gets us quality bench depth, no excuses (barring injuries as you mentioned). No more Parsons, Turners etc.....an actual playable NBA bench.

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bleachkit Grand Master

bleachkit

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5 minutes ago, AHF said:

I said he and Trae were "young superstars."  This is what a young superstar looks like.  Great sometimes historic numbers on mediocre to bad teams.  

Luka (Trae as well) are putting up historic numbers for their age. If that doesn't meet the "young superstar" standard, then what does? I guess you gotta be a top 5 all time player to get any respect around here.

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Peoriabird Grand Master

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6 minutes ago, AHF said:

I said he and Trae were "young superstars."  This is what a young superstar looks like.  Great sometimes historic numbers on mediocre to bad teams.  

No you didn't! You said both teams got Superstars. You know you can go back a page and read your quote before your next post right?

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AHF Grand Master

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2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

No you didn't! You said both teams got Superstars. You know you can go back a page and read your quote before your next post right?

Hey, if you read it as me saying that Trae Young is a fully mature superstar then consider it amended to a 21 year old superstar.  I don't view them on the same tier as prime LeBron or anything.  (Frankly, they will probably never reach that level but I don't think they would need to.) 

They are already among the best payers in the league and for their age and years in the league they really stand out historically.  I don't think you can ask much more from anyone than they have shown so far and I suspect anyone who outdid them at the same age is already in on or the way to the HOF.

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bleachkit Grand Master

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2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

No you didn't! You said both teams got Superstars. You know you can go back a page and read your quote before your next post right?

Luka's numbers are superstar worthy. Still too early to get into the nebulous "is he a winner" debate.

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AHF Grand Master

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1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Luka's numbers are superstar worthy.

Trae's are too.  Luke and Trae this year are:

#4 and #6 in ppg

#2 and #4 in apg

Luke is also #18 in rpg

They are the only two players in the top 10 of both categories other than Damian Lillard (he is between them on scoring and below them both in assists).  Notably, Trae and Doncic are #2 and #3 in Ast% while Dame is #16.

 

FWIW: Luke is #4 in PER and Trae #11; they are #9 and #12 in OWS; they are #6 and #16 in box score +/-; and #7 and #12 in VORP.  All elite numbers regardless of age.  To do this as sophmores at 21 years old is truly impressive.  Again, both teams should be happy with the budding star they got.

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kg01 Grand Master

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33 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He outright said that Luka is a superstar.  Where is the confusion?

@marco102 is right.  Y'all are actually arguing two different things.  Not that I want you to stop.  It does my heart good to see you yelling at someone else for a change.

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kg01 Grand Master

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16 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Luka's numbers are superstar worthy. Still too early to get into the nebulous "is he a winner" debate.

But that's kinda the weird space folks get into when debating our guy vs him.  They assume he is indeed a winner already whereas our guy just plays a lotta minutes and compiles.  I think that's what Peo was railing against.

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AHF Grand Master

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Just now, kg01 said:

But that's kinda the weird space folks get into when debating our guy vs him.  They assume he is indeed a winner already whereas our guy just plays a lotta minutes and compiles.  I think that's what Peo was railing against.

Not sure.  None of those people are in this thread.  He wasn't arguing that Trae isn't a superstar, just Luka.  I think they are clearly in the same bucket at this point.  

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Peoriabird Grand Master

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7 minutes ago, AHF said:

What is your definition of a superstar.

Is Trae?

I don't get how you are distinguishing between them.

Never said Trae was a superstar...my problems with Trae have been well documented but stop hating on Trae to make a point about Luka.

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AHF Grand Master

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2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Never said Trae was a superstar...my problems with Trae have been well documented but stop hating on Trae to make a point about Luka.

Please show me where I have hated on Trae in this thread.  I'll wait.

As I've said, I think they are in the same bucket.  Both are 21 year olds who put up elite offensive numbers this season both from a counting stat perspective and an advanced stat perspective.  Both are budding young superstars who have already put up historic stats while still having significant upside left to tap on both ends of the court.  They aren't mature ala 27 year olds but they have flashed the potential that it wouldn't shock me to see both in the MVP discussion in the near term.  

If that is hate, then I'll own it.

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AHF Grand Master

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Just now, Peoriabird said:

Stick to the point...Luka isn't a superstar period!

Again, we may be talking past each other.  Give me your definition for a superstar and that may put us on the same page.  

For example, if someone needs to have already put together a HOF resume to be considered a superstar then we'll agree that no second player in the history of the league has or will ever meet that criteria.  But when I talk about a young superstar or 21 year old superstar, etc. that is not my expectation.  

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Peoriabird Grand Master

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1 minute ago, AHF said:

Again, we may be talking past each other.  Give me your definition for a superstar and that may put us on the same page.  

For example, if someone needs to have already put together a HOF resume to be considered a superstar then we'll agree that no second player in the history of the league has or will ever meet that criteria.  But when I talk about a young superstar or 21 year old superstar, etc. that is not my expectation.  

Magic Johnson was a superstar his 1st year in the league! Carried his team to a championship his 1st year!

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AHF Grand Master

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9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Magic Johnson was a superstar his 1st year in the league! Carried his team to a championship his 1st year!

He "carried" his team while Kareem was LEAGUE MVP and first team All-NBA?  Kareem ****s on Magics numbers in every category other than assists (both counting and advanced).  (Note that Magic didn't make any All-NBA squad that season).

But did you know that Magic didn't even lead the team in assists?  Norm Nixon actually led the team in assists over Magic (7.8 per game to Magic's 7.3).

Guess Kareem's 33.4 points and 13.6 rebounds per game in the finals just was window dressing. (Magic scored more than 16 points twice). I won't argue that Magic is one of the 5 best players ever in the game, that he was a budding superstar at his age or that he stepped up big in the most dramatic way in Game 6 when Kareem 

Please give your definition of a superstar.  If it is playing on the same team as the league MVP, we'll both agree that neither Trae nor Luka met it.

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Peoriabird Grand Master

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5 minutes ago, AHF said:

He "carried" his team while Kareem was LEAGUE MVP and first team All-NBA?  Kareem ****s on Magics numbers in every category other than assists (both counting and advanced).

But did you know that Magic didn't even lead the team in assists?  Norm Nixon actually led the team in assists over Magic (7.8 per game to Magic's 7.3).

Guess Kareem's 33.4 points and 13.6 rebounds per game in the finals just was window dressing.

Please give your definition of a superstar.  If it is playing on the same team as the league MVP, we'll both agree that neither Trae nor Luka met it.

Kareem didn't play in the championship clinching game.  Magic dominated that game and was the finals MVP!

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Peoriabird Grand Master

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4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

So Jordan, Lebron, Magic. Pretty high bar youre setting there, isn't it? This appears to be a debate about semantics mostly.

That's what term superstar means...it doesn't just describe good players

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