Spud2nique Posted August 5, 2020 Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, Peoriabird said: Luka is not! Peo 4 prez! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleachkit Posted August 5, 2020 Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, AHF said: Are these guys you believe became superstars or were superstars by the end of their second year? I am pretty sure your list of people who qualify by the end of their second season excludes most of these guys. If your definition of superstar is a generational player, then it essentially impossible to be one by the end of year two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted August 5, 2020 Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, bleachkit said: name the names. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted August 5, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 46 minutes ago, bleachkit said: If your definition of superstar is a generational player, then it essentially impossible to be one by the end of year two. And that is fine. If that Peo's definition is "they must be an established generational player" these we are in total agreement. And we can just agree that no second year player has that resume and move on. We've just not gotten that clarification yet. I've been trying to get to something more objective than a "I know it when I see it" definition which is largely being applied to people who se careers are over. Clearly, neither of these guys is a generational player by year 2. I do think they have been so special to date that I'd put their odds of an eventual HOF induction at >80% which is a pretty strong statement for me. They look like just about everything you could hope for from a player at this stage in their career. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted August 5, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, AHF said: Are these guys you believe became superstars or were superstars by the end of their second year? I am pretty sure your list of people who qualify by the end of their second season excludes most of these guys. How did this discussion morph into naming superstar by their 2nd year from Luka isn't a superstar now. Y'all must be lawyers or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted August 5, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said: How did this discussion morph into naming superstar by their 2nd year from Luka isn't a superstar now. Y'all must be lawyers or something. I told you that when I used the term in the context of this thread, I was specifically meaning a young superstar. You said you weren't saying that and we've been trying to get around to a definition of what you are talking about. Magic Johnson wasn't a generational superstar at the end of year 2. He was a blossoming young star who had yet to make an All-NBA team or be an All-Star starter who had one historic playoff game. He was clearly a standout already in the league and also clearly not his team's best player (didn't lead the team in scoring or assists, for example). He was a young superstar based on what he had shown by my standard but not by a generational player standard. LeBron James wasn't a generational superstar at the end of year 2. He was a blossoming young star who was putting up historic numbers while his team hovered around .500 and was better when he wasn't available to play. He was a young superstar by my standard but not a generational player yet. If we just want to say there is no such thing as a superstar by year 2 or that there may have been only a couple of players in the entire history of the NBA like this, then we were talking past eachother and are now on the same page. Neither Luke nor Trae have proven themselves to be generational stars. That will take a much longer track record of production whether it is teaming up with multiple HOFers to win rings like Magic or sustained statistical brilliance with mediocre team success like Nique. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted August 5, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, AHF said: Neither Luke nor Trae have proven themselves to be generational stars. Does generational star=Superstar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted August 5, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said: Does generational star=Superstar? I've been asking you what you mean by superstar for a while. bleach was interpreting your posts as being synonymous with this definition. I can't answer what you mean by that term. Only you can share your definition. I personally view the term generational star as being a smaller category of players than the term superstar but I think (but can't be sure until I understand your definition) that I have a broader definition for superstar than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted August 5, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 Just now, AHF said: I've been asking you what you mean by superstar for a while. bleach was interpreting your posts as being synonymous with this definition. I can't answer what you mean by that term. Only you can share your definition. I never used the term generational star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted August 5, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said: I never used the term generational star You didn't but when asked to name examples you have given generational stars like Magic, LeBron, Shaq, etc. When bleach asked you to name examples, I think he took the names you provided as evidence that you intended the terms to by synonymous. Please give your definition or confirm that your definition is some version of "when it is obvious to me." That's what I've been stumbling trying to reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RedDawg#8 Posted August 5, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 Lebron named the following; Zion, Luka, Trae, Ja, and Tatum, as the future of the league. Take it for what its worth, but those guys are clearly much different than their peers, who may still catch up one day and be great too. But those names are on another trajectory and likely will be generational. (Tatum for me is a reach, but Im also a Boston hater) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kg01 Posted August 5, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said: Lebron named the following; Zion, Luka, Trae, Ja, and Tatum, as the future of the league. Take it for what its worth, but those guys are clearly much different than their peers, who may still catch up one day and be great too. But those names are on another trajectory and likely will be generational. (Tatum for me is a reach, but Im also a Boston hater) School em' RD#8. It's not hatin' it's factin'. Also, it's been wildly amusing watching @AHF chase this greased pig. Or should I say greased 'goal post', cause that things a-movin'. Get 'im, Peo. Edited August 5, 2020 by kg01 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted August 5, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 Ok I'll jump in with my floatie on. Are superstars always superstars? Or can you be a superstar for 1-2 years? Was Derrick Rose a superstar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted August 5, 2020 Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, macdaddy said: floatie that’s cute. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted August 5, 2020 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 40 minutes ago, kg01 said: School em' RD#8. It's not hatin' it's factin'. Also, it's been wildly amusing watching @AHF chase this greased pig. Or should I say greased 'goal post', cause that things a-movin'. Get 'im, Peo. Or... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post JayBirdHawk Posted August 5, 2020 Author Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, macdaddy said: Ok I'll jump in with my floatie on. Are superstars always superstars? Or can you be a superstar for 1-2 years? Was Derrick Rose a superstar? You don't need floaties my man...this is shallow waters 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lethalweapon3 Posted August 5, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 in other news: "NBA Superstar" Yells at Cloud. ~lw3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted August 5, 2020 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, lethalweapon3 said: in other news: "NBA Superstar" Yells at Cloud. ~lw3 Thought it was a Dec 25th start date? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted August 5, 2020 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 4 hours ago, AHF said: Please give your definition or confirm that your definition is some version of "when it is obvious to me." That's what I've been stumbling trying to reach. A superstar is someone who can have a team built around him. He should be able to take them deep into the playoffs and be that guy you can depend on in the closing minutes. In order to attain superstar status, a player should be judged for his play on the court and not his life off of it.Oct 11, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted August 6, 2020 Moderators Report Share Posted August 6, 2020 15 hours ago, Peoriabird said: A superstar is someone who can have a team built around him. He should be able to take them deep into the playoffs and be that guy you can depend on in the closing minutes. In order to attain superstar status, a player should be judged for his play on the court and not his life off of it.Oct 11, 2013 Someone who can have a team built around them covers a lot of people. Being able to take a team deep in to the playoffs and be that guy you can depend on in the closing minutes is more nebulous. Should I be reading this that deep into the playoffs means conference finals? So players like Nique, John Stockton, and Chris Paul are not superstars by your definition correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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