News and Notes: Updated between Games

[kg01]

I get how neither of our guys make any of the rookie teams but I don't get some of the names who did.

Ruin Hachimura (typo or not?  you decide)?  Terrence Davis?  I mean, they were ok but they had lows and lulls just like our guys did.  You could make a case that Hunter, although disappointing, was more consistent than either of those guys.

[NBASupes]

23 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I get how neither of our guys make any of the rookie teams but I don't get some of the names who did.

Ruin Hachimura (typo or not?  you decide)?  Terrence Davis?  I mean, they were ok but they had lows and lulls just like our guys did.  You could make a case that Hunter, although disappointing, was more consistent than either of those guys.

There is no case for any our players via advanced metrics over Davis but role, responsibility and difficulty was vastly harder for our guys and R.J. Rui over Cam Reddish is a joke. No other way around it. Rui over Hunter is disrespectful. 

[terrell]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

There is no case for any our players via advanced metrics over Davis but role, responsibility and difficulty was vastly harder for our guys and R.J. Rui over Cam Reddish is a joke. No other way around it. Rui over Hunter is disrespectful. 

Exactly..Put Hunter or Cam on the Heat for example with good vets and they make it easy..

[JayBirdHawk]

It's easier for rookies to play limited minutes in limited roles on playoff team so their advance metrics will play well. If you are playing 7 minutes in a blowout without much consequence what does that really matter.  They aren't overloaded with information like rookies who are expected to lift franchises.

[kg01]

20 minutes ago, terrell said:

Exactly..Put Hunter or Cam on the Heat for example with good vets and they make it easy..

That's why it makes me laugh how many jump on the Herro > Cam bandwagon.  Yes, he's playing quite well but lets not go crazy.  Being on a vet-laden team and being spoon-fed a 1+1=2 role is a factor there.

Hopefully our guys will show tangible benefits from being thrown in the deep end without floaties this past season.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

That's why it makes me laugh how many jump on the Herro > Cam bandwagon.  Yes, he's playing quite well but lets not go crazy.  Being on a vet-laden team and being spoon-fed a 1+1=2 role is a factor there.

Hopefully our guys will show tangible benefits from being thrown in the deep end without floaties this past season.

I will say that Herro deserved a spot on the team more than either of our guys.  But that is purely a 2019-20 issue.  Herro was playing 27 mpg and putting up a solid .550% TS% along with a dollop of reasonable playmaking.  He was more ready than Cam (who started the year injured) and Hunter (who was learning a new position). 

At 16 minutes and change and the 10th guy in the Toronto rotation, Davis just didn't play a big role.  Hachimura just put up reasonable offensive numbers while being ugly on D.  I think both those guys get selected due to voters struggling to complete their ballot and having seen a bit more of these guys than they did our rookies.

I wasn't disappointed.  Our guys struggled early in the year and our team was worse.  I care about next year.  I want to see both on the sophmore team.

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

I wasn't disappointed.  Our guys struggled early in the year and our team was worse.  I care about next year.  I want to see both on the sophmore team.

This is where I'm at with it.  Not overly disappointed as it was supremely expected.  Just made me tilt my head and furrow my brow a bit.

ETA: I think, going forward when our guys take next steps, this'll be an odd footnote.  Like, "Dang Cam Reddish is 1st team all-NBA but didn't even make all-rookie way back when?"

Edited September 16, 2020 by kg01

[terrell]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's easier for rookies to play limited minutes in limited roles on playoff team so their advance metrics will play well. If you are playing 7 minutes in a blowout without much consequence what does that really matter.  They aren't overloaded with information like rookies who are expected to lift franchises.

Yep.  Pretty sure Herro wouldnt look like the same player if he was on Cleveland..lol..He's a good, young player, but theyre overrating him already imo..Heck, Landry Shamet would  probably be labeled a bust already if he was on the Hawks..But he was getting major min on the Championship favorite..Situation is everything..

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

This is where I'm at with it.  Not overly disappointed as it was supremely expected.  Just made me tilt my head and furrow my brow a bit.

ETA: I think, going forward when our guys take next steps, this'll be an odd footnote.  Like, "Dang Cam Reddish is 1st team all-NBA but didn't even make all-rookie way back when?"

He may have struggled as a rookie but damn...kid is a new school me!

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

I will say that Herro deserved a spot on the team more than either of our guys.  But that is purely a 2019-20 issue.  Herro was playing 27 mpg and putting up a solid .550% TS% along with a dollop of reasonable playmaking.  He was more ready than Cam (who started the year injured) and Hunter (who was learning a new position). 

At 16 minutes and change and the 10th guy in the Toronto rotation, Davis just didn't play a big role.  Hachimura just put up reasonable offensive numbers while being ugly on D.  I think both those guys get selected due to voters struggling to complete their ballot and having seen a bit more of these guys than they did our rookies.

I wasn't disappointed.  Our guys struggled early in the year and our team was worse.  I care about next year.  I want to see both on the sophmore team.

I think they seen are guys and it wasn't good. By the time they got it figured out, it was too late in the process.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I think they seen are guys and it wasn't good. By the time they got it figured out, it was too late in the process.

100% agree.  Our team started like garbage (esp with JC suspended, etc.) and our rookies struggled.  Too little to late for the voters even if it means they didn't pay attention to Cam's 2020, etc.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 9/16/2020 at 3:27 AM, NBASupes said:

The playoffs are HARD. Y'all gonna see when we eventually get there how much harder it is than the regular season. 

LOL . . we all know how hard the playoffs are.  

The Highlight Factory squad never made it to the Conference Finals, and only went to Game 6 in the EC Semis.

Bud's squad did make it to the EC Finals, but was lackluster in other years.

Steve Smith and Dikembe never even played in a Game 6 in the EC Semis.

Dominique's teams made one Game 7 in the EC Semis.

 

As I said in a previous post, if John Collins isn't allowed to use his full arsenal of offensive talents, he could look the very same way that guys like Siakam and Harrell looked in a playoff situation.  

While this team isn't built for the playoffs yet, coach does need to maximize the talents of our top players.

 

 

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

LOL . . we all know how hard the playoffs are.  

The Highlight Factory squad never made it to the Conference Finals, and only went to Game 6 in the EC Semis.

Bud's squad did make it to the EC Finals, but was lackluster in other years.

Steve Smith and Dikembe never even played in a Game 6 in the EC Semis.

Dominique's teams made one Game 7 in the EC Semis.

 

As I said in a previous post, if John Collins isn't allowed to use his full arsenal of offensive talents, he could look the very same way that guys like Siakam and Harrell looked in a playoff situation.  

While this team isn't built for the playoffs yet, coach does need to maximize the talents of our top players.

 

 

I'm also going to say that losing in Game 7 to the Bird's Celtics was a bigger accomplishment than beating the Nets and Wizards to advance to the ECF and then not winning a game there.

[kg01]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

LOL . . we all know how hard the playoffs are.  

As I said in a previous post, if John Collins isn't allowed to use his full arsenal of offensive talents, he could look the very same way that guys like Siakam and Harrell looked in a playoff situation.  

While this team isn't built for the playoffs yet, coach does need to maximize the talents of our top players.

 

Yeah, we all know the playoffs are hard.  

I think Harrell and Trashcal were exposed for different reasons tho.  Not because their coach failed to use their skills effectively.  Harrell is just not that good.  Trashcal was adjusting to being the man, didn't seem to take well to it.

I think Collins' post game could come into play at that point.  It could be the 'counter' the other two guys lack.

[Bonkers]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I'm also going to say that losing in Game 7 to the Bird's Celtics was a bigger accomplishment than beating the Nets and Wizards to advance to the ECF and then not winning a game there.

100% TRUTH

 

Taking that Celtics team to a game 7>>>>>>>>>>>>Beating those 2 trash teams (Nets and Wizards)

[AHF]

Time to bury the hatchet and play nice guys.  Let's refocus on the topic and eliminate any name calling or personal strikes.  Plenty of interesting ground for people to cover without adding personal attacks into the grist.

[NBASupes]

My thoughts in agreement on this Heat v. Celtics series

Neither of these teams are championship caliber. In terms of talent, either one would be the least talented team to ever win a championship if they somehow pulled it off. No superstars on either team, just a bunch of good players, B, B+ commanded by two very good coaches. This series is really about the coaches scheming with non superstar talent to see which one is more effective. Tonight it was Spoelstra with the defensive adjustments that stymied the Celtics.

With the Tournament type playoffs this year, this series resembles a NCAA tournament game more than any year I can remember. Boston is like Butler, playing that egalitarian college system with pro players supported by excellent defensive schemes. Purists may love it but it’s not interesting watching middling talent driving and kicking and jacking 3s all game. And then borderline fouling on every play with overaggressiveness and physicality like every Stevens teams in college. To me, Stevens and his system belongs in the NCAA. The NBA is about maximizing the greatness of superstar players.

Miami is built in the mode of every Pat Riley team since he was a coach. Physically strong, mentally tough team full of athletes that rebounds and defends like a football team. His one adaptation to this era is the 3 point shooters he’s acquired to spread the floor. It’s hard to see the Heat have enough offense to win this year’s NBA tournament but they play so hard and Spoelstra is a defensive wizard so they get results.

But neither of these teams are true championship caliber. Either one would get whipped by just about any other championship team of the past.

[txsting]

"watching middling talent driving and kicking and jacking 3s all game"

Dude - you just described the last 5 years (or more) of NBA basketball.  It's becoming borderline unwatchable.  The 3 pointer is democratizing the league.  It seems to me that the value of "superstar" players is actually going down a bit.  We've seen a bunch of them knocked off already this post season.  Won't surprise me a bit if the Nuggets knock off the Lakers.  In fact, I'm calling it right now.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, txsting said:

"watching middling talent driving and kicking and jacking 3s all game"

Dude - you just described the last 5 years (or more) of NBA basketball.  It's becoming borderline unwatchable.  The 3 pointer is democratizing the league.  It seems to me that the value of "superstar" players is actually going down a bit.  We've seen a bunch of them knocked off already this post season.  Won't surprise me a bit if the Nuggets knock off the Lakers.  In fact, I'm calling it right now.

It may seem like that but it's a lot more complex than this.

[nathan2331]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

My thoughts in agreement on this Heat v. Celtics series

Neither of these teams are championship caliber. In terms of talent, either one would be the least talented team to ever win a championship if they somehow pulled it off. No superstars on either team, just a bunch of good players, B, B+ commanded by two very good coaches. This series is really about the coaches scheming with non superstar talent to see which one is more effective. Tonight it was Spoelstra with the defensive adjustments that stymied the Celtics.

With the Tournament type playoffs this year, this series resembles a NCAA tournament game more than any year I can remember. Boston is like Butler, playing that egalitarian college system with pro players supported by excellent defensive schemes. Purists may love it but it’s not interesting watching middling talent driving and kicking and jacking 3s all game. And then borderline fouling on every play with overaggressiveness and physicality like every Stevens teams in college. To me, Stevens and his system belongs in the NCAA. The NBA is about maximizing the greatness of superstar players.

Miami is built in the mode of every Pat Riley team since he was a coach. Physically strong, mentally tough team full of athletes that rebounds and defends like a football team. His one adaptation to this era is the 3 point shooters he’s acquired to spread the floor. It’s hard to see the Heat have enough offense to win this year’s NBA tournament but they play so hard and Spoelstra is a defensive wizard so they get results.

But neither of these teams are true championship caliber. Either one would get whipped by just about any other championship team of the past.

Very much agree with this. Both teams are well coached but they'd get swept in a moment by the Warriors or a prime LeBron led team. Shoot, the 60-win Hawks could've beat these guys. It'll be interesting to see if the introduction of Hayward changes anything if Boston can get him involved. Them getting clamped by the zone last night was a joke. All Smart had to do was take the free throw jumper in the middle of the zone, or make a pass to the baseline and he couldn't do it. I would hate to see this Heat team win it all, they really ain't nothing special.