Brooklyn 2020 1st Round Pick Watch

[Gray Mule]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

I'm just saying making bad picks AND having a bad front office landed Suns and Wolves where they are.

We seem to have nailed our picks , but they still gotta play and prove they are the right picks.

There is a huge difference in our draft picks and our "other" players.  We drafted for the future and we are going to play them and prove that they are the right picks.  Players we have on the roster that fit the "other" description are here, for the most part, because we relieved other NBA teams of their problems so they could get out from under terrible contracts.  These expire with the end of this season.  By doing this, the Hawks ended up with extra draft picks - - More future!

Atlanta is building.  This team that they are putting together looks good right now.  The 2019-20 season will show us what we really have and what we need to complete the picture.

[Gray Mule]

Note:  Detroit opens the season with back to back games.  They are on the road Wednesday and then open at home with the Atlanta Hawks on Thursday.

One of their stars is out.  N.O. star, first round pick, is out.  Hawks are hopeful that Huerter and Reddish are ready to go.  Len and Collins are both coming out of pre season with small injuries as well as Trae with a sore back.

Season opens tonight with two games, then a big bunch of games Wednesday.  This is what we Hawk fans have been waiting for since the end of last season!

[Spud2nique]

52 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Uuuuhhhhhmmm....ok.............No provocation intended.

I'm just saying making bad picks AND having a bad front office landed Suns and Wolves where they are.

We seem to have nailed our picks , but they still gotta play and prove they are the right picks.

Sorry I didn’t mean to get emotional I just don’t understand why people want to keep building and building like it’s some damn LEGO or something. Look we didn’t have pieces two years ago, we stock piled picks and turned them into better picks. A couple few seemed to have panned out and two are very elite prospects.

 

Lets play ball and win now. That’s my thing. People wanna half ass it and finish 9th I’m not for that at all. This young group needs to experience some winning and by some I mean a few playoff games, in the weak east it’s more than possible. I for one will not short change us.

[Spud2nique]

34 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Note:  Detroit opens the season with back to back games. 

Good point Gramps. I saw that earlier as well. In fact I believe only 4 teams have their first games on Thursday and we are one, the other four being the Warriors, Bucks and Rockets 🧨.

Gramps, this is a winnable road game for sure. Pistons home opener but as you mentioned they could be lagged coming off a roadie. 

[Spud2nique]

49 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

3. Taking another shot at a lottery pick will somehow enhance the Hawk's future dynasty.

This is what an earlier poster said. In fact, the poster said it would nearly double the years of our dynasty which is pretty funny to me.

[Spud2nique]

56 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I actually understand your point.  Same thing continues to happen to me as well.  It sounds like there is a certain message being shaped here.

1.  The Hawks are lottery bound which is O.K. both fans and players are o.k. with it

2.  Losing has no effect on players and they understand the rebuilding process and buy into it

3. Taking another shot at a lottery pick will somehow enhance the Hawk's future dynasty.

4. The Hawks are rebuilding therefore it is o.k. to have big holes in your roster so hang in there the real team building starts next year

5. How dare the national media disrespect the Hawks and not have them on National TV even though the Hawks are rebuilding

6.  The Hawks are building there team just like the Spurs and Patriots built their dynasties.

I “liked” your post but agree with some and not all of the points. Did we need to rebuild, yes we did. Whether we did well or not is not the point and remains to be seen. The point is we rebuilt and got the necessary pieces to build a squad with the last 3 drafts. WE SHOULD BE DONE!

We have about 6 elite high profile 1st round picks auditioning for 2 or 3 all star ️ roles..that’s it. The league used to have ONE ️, the Celts of 2008, Heat of 2011 and Warriors of 2016 made it 3, this past summer down to 2. 
 

We have 6 prospects auditioning for 2 major roles. That’s how I look  at it and we fill slots according to need and spend wisely once the process determines itself over the course of time. Utah Jazz of the 90’s style. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Spud2nique

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Gramps, this is a winnable road game for sure. Pistons home opener but as you mentioned they could be lagged coming off a roadie. 

The Hawks might win but it will just kill me to see Drummond get like 25-30 rebounds like he is the reincarnation of Wilt Chamberlain because of how poorly our front court is constructed.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

I “liked” your post but agree with some and not all of the points. Did we need to rebuild, yes we did. Whether we did well or not is not the point and remains to be seen. The point is we rebuilt and got the necessary pieces to build a squad with the last 3 drafts. WE SHOULD BE DONE!

We have about 6 elite high profile 1st round picks auditioning for 2 or 3 all star ️ roles..that’s it. The league used to have ONE ️, the Celts of 2008, Heat of 2011 and Warriors of 2016 made it 3, this past summer down to 2. 
 

We have 6 prospects auditioning for 2 major roles. That’s how I long at it and we fill slots according to need and spend wisely once the process determines itself over the course of time. Utah Jazz of the 90’s style. 

I've made this point in many different threads only to be shot down by the guardians of the message board.  One of the guardians even said that this is how the Spurs and the Patriots built their Dynasties which I thought was the weirdest statement made on this topic!

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The Hawks might win but it will just kill me to see Drummond get like 25-30 rebounds like he is the reincarnation of Wilt Chamberlain because of how poorly our front court is constructed.

Well that’s been by design for the most part based on the NBA’s trend toward wing players and the emphasis on perimeter scoring.

Travis came from a team that went with that philosophy as well. Put the talent at the 1,2,4,3 and last 5 spots. It’s not just us that have this issue, you only have so much money or picks to spend. What position you choose is based on your philosophy.

Pistons are one of the few teams still going big with Drummond. He might get 25 boards against us in the regular season but if we somehow were to meet them in the playoffs, Trae’s 12 dimes would gives us a win over Drummond’s 25 boards.

Again I’m not condoning it, it’s just the way it is right now.

[Watchman]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Well that’s been by design for the most part based on the NBA’s trend toward wing players and the emphasis on perimeter scoring.

Travis came from a team that went with that philosophy as well. Put the talent at the 1,2,4,3 and last 5 spots. It’s not just us that have this issue, you only have so much money or picks to spend. What position you choose is based on your philosophy.

Pistons are one of the few teams still going big with Drummond. He might get 25 boards against us in the regular season but if we somehow were to meet them in the playoffs, Trae’s 12 dimes would gives us a win over Drummond’s 25 boards.

Again I’m not condoning it, it’s just the way it is right now.

It's the eight turnovers that would get us.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Well that’s been by design for the most part based on the NBA’s trend toward wing players and the emphasis on perimeter scoring.

Travis came from a team that went with that philosophy as well. Put the talent at the 1,2,4,3 and last 5 spots. It’s not just us that have this issue, you only have so much money or picks to spend. What position you choose is based on your philosophy.

Pistons are one of the few teams still going big with Drummond. He might get 25 boards against us in the regular season but if we somehow were to meet them in the playoffs, Trae’s 12 dimes would gives us a win over Drummond’s 25 boards.

Again I’m not condoning it, it’s just the way it is right now.

I don't know about that.  Extra possession are very valuable in the post season.  And I don't know how many dimes Trae would be dishing out with Hands of stone at center.  Plus if you think Trae gets trapped and double teamed in preseason. Wait to you see what teams do to him in the post season.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Gray Mule said:

Atlanta is building.  This team that they are putting together looks good right now.  The 2019-20 season will show us what we really have and what we need to complete the picture.

Exactly this....We are Building....the construction is not yet complete!

We have a cornerstone and a solid foundation - now that foundation needs to get to its design strength to support what we'll continue to build on it.

I don't see much of anyone advocating 'tanking' like last season. I'm just realistic about my expectations regarding this team as currently constructed.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly be the 1st to admit I underestimated this team. 

[AHF]

First, not trying to "provoke" anyone.  Kind of disappointed that anyone would think that.

Second, I think this team is clearly not built to win this year.  You don't man the center position with Len, Jones and a rookie second round pick (who I like for the long-term) if you want to win this year.  You resign Dedmon.  That doesn't mean you tank it up but does mean that the GM is shooting for something other than wins and losses as the final measure for the team.

Third, I'd like for our young players to bloom into players who will win the next 5 MVPs and for us to go undefeated.  I'm not rooting for us to lose and nothing would be better for our future than our young players developing into stars and exceeding the win total that I think Schlenk has in mind for this year.

Fourth, I do think roster construction can influence development which is why I've said that our talent deficit at center is my biggest issue with the current team.  I defend Schlenk's decision not to overspend on talent that will improve our record this year but not move the needle on our aspirations of being title contenders but question whether he couldn't have done significantly better without taking on material long-term salary.

Fifth, I find the comparison to the Suns to be off base given how long they have been in the lottery and how many picks they have wasted versus the very efficient use of picks our team has seen so far.  I don't argue that I want us to be the Suns because no one wants that.  But I don't see much benefit in the comparison.  The only way we end up as the Suns is if like 3 of our current core players all bust hard.  And if that is the case then we absolutely do want to have future draft picks.

Sixth, I still maintain that draft picks have value for our franchise.  We've taken John Collins and Kevin Huerter with midround firsts the last few seasons.  How can anyone say that getting a midround first from the Nets or OKC, etc. isn't something that could materially enhance our chances at being a contender when we've seen that our current GM can add that caliber of player from that draft position?  Think of the Pistons adding Tayshaun Prince and what that did for their team.  You also don't have to use picks to draft players.  You can trade picks for established players.  How could that be bad?  A team shouldn't pursue picks to the exclusion of more important things but, ceteris paribus, the more picks you own the better.

We've been through the worst of our rebuild already.  This year is about the young talent developing and proving itself.  If we organically become a playoff team this season on the backs of our young studs then that is fantastic!  I'll be loving it every step of the way.  But if we are in the lottery, I think that is part of Schlenk's plan and for year 3 of the rebuild I don't think that is such a problem.

[Peoriabird]

I repeat...Not everyone is cool with a losing plan and I hope by now that evry one knows without question that the contruction of our front court is a losing plan.  I hope John and Trae are not negatively affected by all of the losing.  I worry also because Trae always talks about Oklahoma being his home.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I've made this point in many different threads only to be shot down by the guardians of the message board.  One of the guardians even said that this is how the Spurs and the Patriots built their Dynasties which I thought was the weirdest statement made on this topic!

I gave the Spurs and Patriots as examples of teams that continued to get value out of draft picks to enhance their teams even after they had already reached a championship level to make the point that every team with a smart GM can get value out of picks.  

The Lakers had MVP Kareem, MVP Magic, All-Star Norm Nixon, All-Star Jamaal Wilkes, All-Star Bob McAdoo and still traded guys to get another top draft pick in James Worthy.  Why?  Because their GM was a moron? Nope.  He saw the value in the draft --- even though his team had just won the NBA championship.  

How does that 1981-82 Lakers squad have a greater need to add young talent than we do?  

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I gave the Spurs and Patriots as examples of teams that continued to get value out of draft picks to enhance their teams even after they had already reached a championship level to make the point that every team with a smart GM can get value out of picks. 

I'm not sure what your point is but no one every suggested that any team should stops drafting good players but merely to stop accepting $25 million dollar contract tied to players that can't contribute to winning.  The Spurs and the Patriots never did this.

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not sure what your point is but no one every suggested that any team should stops drafting good players but merely to stop accepting $25 million dollar contract tied to players that can't contribute to winning.  The Spurs and the Patriots never did this.

Why would you use championship teams for this comparison?  I keep scratching my head how you use things out of context.  The picks we are trading for will be available to us when we are trying to contend.   You do those types of trades before you are trying to contend.

The MLB champion Astros (and the Cubs and others) did a ton of moves like this until they were ready to try to win games and then continued to reap the benefits of the young talent they rostered years into contention.  Our GM is not trying to contend this year and is only focused on wins generated through organic growth of our drafted players.

Can you specify what deal is upsetting you?  Are you feeling like Solomon Hill and Plumlee were on their way to stardom?    Are you thinking we didn't unload Bazemore and Prince to free up minutes for Huerter, Cam, and Hunter and didn't get back players who were rotation guys for their teams in recent years?

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

Why would you use championship teams for this comparison? 

You used the comparison..Not me.  I just corrected your false equivalence.  Bottom line is that you agree with what Schlenk is doing and I don't. Last year when he tanked, he got burned but didn't learn a thing from the experience.  This year's team's supporting cast is worse than last year's which tells me that the plan is unchanged.   This is the primary difference between our positions.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

You used the comparison..Not me.  I just corrected your false equivalence.  Bottom line is that you agree with what Schlenk is doing and I don't. Last year when he tanked, he got burned but didn't learn a thing from the experience.  This year's team's supporting cast is worse than last year's which tells me that the plan is unchanged.   This is the primary difference between our positions.

You don't even bother to read my posts.  It is really frustrating sometimes.

I gave a variety of examples of teams in different stages of development who all took steps to acquire draft assets to build the team after the argument was made that you should not work to add draft assets once you have your core.  I gave examples like the Houston Astros to compare to what we've been doing which is a team that is trying to build a base of young talent and future assets before they are ready to try to contend.  You ignore that and use teams like the Spurs who were offered for the notion that draft assets can make a material difference even when a team is fully contending out of context to battle a strawman.

I also don't consider adding Hunter and Cam as getting burned.  That is good team building.  

I've said for several years that we should build up a good base of young players and then invest money and assets to amp up the roster when we want to contend.  Schlenk has clearly sent the message that we don't plan on trying to contend this year.  I say that as an observation.  If you have made that decision, I think there are things that flow from it that make sense for what Schlenk has done (or most of what he has done because I agree with you that the center position should have been shored up more than it is). 

I wasn't advocating that we not try to win this year.  In fact, I thought it was possible we would try to make our plunge into our contention phase this offseason but we did not.  If we had gone out and added Paul George and Kawhi Leonard do you think I would have complained?  Heck no.  But we didn't choose to go that path so adding more future assets with cap space that we don't intend to spend in FA makes a ton of sense.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

You don't even bother to read my posts.  It is really frustrating sometimes.

I gave a variety of examples of teams in different stages of development who all took steps to acquire draft assets to build the team after the argument was made that you should not work to add draft assets once you have your core.  I gave examples like the Houston Astros to compare to what we've been doing which is a team that is trying to build a base of young talent and future assets before they are ready to try to contend.  You ignore that and use teams like the Spurs who were offered for the notion that draft assets can make a material difference even when a team is fully contending out of context to battle a strawman.

I also don't consider adding Hunter and Cam as getting burned.  That is good team building.  

I've said for several years that we should build up a good base of young players and then invest money and assets to amp up the roster when we want to contend.  Schlenk has clearly sent the message that we don't plan on trying to contend this year.  I say that as an observation.  If you have made that decision, I think there are things that flow from it that make sense for what Schlenk has done (or most of what he has done because I agree with you that the center position should have been shored up more than it is). 

I wasn't advocating that we not try to win this year.  In fact, I thought it was possible we would try to make our plunge into our contention phase this offseason but we did not.  If we had gone out and added Paul George and Kawhi Leonard do you think I would have complained?  Heck no.  But we didn't choose to go that path so adding more future assets with cap space that we don't intend to spend in FA makes a ton of sense.

So I'm assuming that this a long winded way of saying that you agree with Schlenk's decision not to compete this year.