Trae Young - The Man, The Viper, and The Prosecution aka The MVP aka Ice Trae

[AHF]

Since we've been talking about Trae, I'm still on board with him as our star.  (If someone else can outshine him, great but I think he has the potential for seasons in MVP consideration and I don't say that about anyone else on the team today.)  He has growing to do but I'm still fully building around him.

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Since we've been talking about Trae, I'm still on board with him as our star.  (If someone else can outshine him, great but I think he has the potential for seasons in MVP consideration and I don't say that about anyone else on the team today.)  He has growing to do but I'm still fully building around him.

Personally, I would not exclusively build around him. He's too flawed. I do think he can be a winning player in the right situation, even a great player in the right situation. Statistically he already is great in terms of counting stats, the jury is still out on his impact on winning though. But I dont want to go into every draft and free agency, asking "what players would work best with Trae." Reminds me what Philly did with AI for many years, and although LB and AI did get them to a finals, it's not the ideal way to build a team. If there is a model we should try to Copy, it's Utah. 

[REHawksFan]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Since we've been talking about Trae, I'm still on board with him as our star.  (If someone else can outshine him, great but I think he has the potential for seasons in MVP consideration and I don't say that about anyone else on the team today.)  He has growing to do but I'm still fully building around him.

Sometimes I wonder if other teams fanbases have these same referendums on their star players when the team doesn't have success.  

Are Minny fans wanting to move on from KAT and Ant-man because their team is 7-28?  

How about the Kings with Bagley and Fox?  They are 13-21.  Is every loss a referendum on whether Fox is a winning player or not? 

OKC with SGA??  He looks fantastic to me, but they are only 14-20.  Maybe he isn't a winning player.

The Wiz with Beal?  Hell he's even older than Trae and they aren't winning.  

 

It just makes me shake my head sometimes that Trae has had all sorts of success in his young career, set records, been included in groups of historic players that few other young players are, AND YET.....because the team hasn't seen the amount of win/loss improvement in the first half of year 3 that some in the fanbase think is appropriate (ignoring of course all of the other non-Trae factors), some in the fanbase are ready to write him off and move on. 

 

 

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Personally, I would not exclusively build around him. He's too flawed. I do think he can be a winning player in the right situation, even a great player in the right situation. Statistically he already is great in terms of counting stats, the jury is still out on his impact on winning though. But I dont want to go into every draft and free agency, asking "what players would work best with Trae." Reminds me what Philly did with AI for many years, and although LB and AI did get them to a finals, it's not the ideal way to build a team. If there is a model we should try to Copy, it's Utah. 

AI needed the rest of the team to cover him on defense and let him chuck non-stop on offense.  They were absolutely built around him to the exclusion of other offensive players.

A guy like Steph is someone GS built around but he can coexist with other offensive players in a way that AI could not so they built around him but not "exclusively."

I think of Trae as being more like Steph in this comparison.  I agree about not building "exclusively" around him but I don't think you have to build around him to the exclusion of other players.  The one area I do think you need to have in the front of your mind with him is how he pairs with wings on defense.  Otherwise, I don't see him as someone who can't work with other players and so you can build around him without making "fit with Trae" more important than talent for FA and draft acquisitions.  

[bleachkit]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

AI needed the rest of the team to cover him on defense and let him chuck non-stop on offense.  They were absolutely built around him to the exclusion of other offensive players.

A guy like Steph is someone GS built around but he can coexist with other offensive players in a way that AI could not so they built around him but not "exclusively."

I think of Trae as being more like Steph in this comparison.  I agree about not building "exclusively" around him but I don't think you have to build around him to the exclusion of other players.  The one area I do think you need to have in the front of your mind with him is how he pairs with wings on defense.  Otherwise, I don't see him as someone who can't work with other players and so you can build around him without making "fit with Trae" more important than talent for FA and draft acquisitions.  

Trae's defensively liabilities are really going to come front and center if we ever get into the playoffs. You think teams are exploiting him now, just wait until the playoffs where game plans are more refined  and match up oriented, it will be an absolute feeding frenzy. 

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Trae's defensively liabilities are really going to come front and center if we ever get into the playoffs. You think teams are exploiting him now, just wait until the playoffs where game plans are more refined  and match up oriented, it will be an absolute feeding frenzy. 

Right which is why I think the defensive abilities of the wings around him are the one factor that you have to address in team building.  I think that was part of the thought process in adding the defensive potential of Cam and Hunter and I'm all for that.  If you had to rely primarily on a 1-2-3 like Trae, Huerter and say Demar Derozan then you are doomed.  The 2 & 3 roles need to have guys who can play major minutes with Trae and allow him to take the easiest assignments and I'm optimistic that our young wings can mesh with him like that as they mature.

[macdaddy]

So what we've seen the last 2 years is Trae Young playing for a coach he felt undermined him publicly and on a team where a significant number of players had little faith in the coach.   We got nearly 30/10 and an all star starter.    I wouldn't be quick to dismiss Trae as an elite player in this league.

[REHawksFan]

For his CAREER, Trae has avg. 35 pts / 11 ast / 2 stl / 4 reb on 62% FG and 48% 3PT when Nate was HC.  I'm not saying Trae's gonna be the MVP, but......I'm not NOT saying it either. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Tis a joke

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

For his CAREER, Trae has avg. 35 pts / 11 ast / 2 stl / 4 reb on 62% FG and 48% 3PT when Nate was HC.  I'm not saying Trae's gonna be the MVP, but......I'm not NOT saying it either. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Hide contents

Tis a joke

 

I love this place. 

[REHawksFan]

Random Trae stats:

• Hawks improve to 12-2 when Trae shoots 40.0% + from 3PT (3-16 when he shoots less than 40%)
• Hawks improve to 3-12 when Trae scores 25 pts or less (12-6 when he scores 26+ pts)
• Hawks improve to 14-6 when Trae logs a PPS of 1.30 or better (1-12 when he's sub 1.30)
• Hawks improve to 5-11 when Trae tallies 10+ assists (still 10-7 when 9 or fewer)
• Hawks Improve to 7-12 when Trae suffers 4 or more TOs (8-6 when he's 3 or less TOs)
  • Interestingly, Hawks are only 2-3 when Trae has 10+ Ast paired with 3 or fewer TOs (3-8 when he's 10+ / 4+)

 

We are dealing with a sample size of 33 games that Trae has played in which means these stats are nearing the size necessary to have some statistical relevancy.  Obviously, there's 100 other factors that also influence each game though so I'll let y'all interpret any potential correlation for yourselves.  

 

[bleachkit]

On 3/1/2021 at 12:49 PM, REHawksFan said:

Sometimes I wonder if other teams fanbases have these same referendums on their star players when the team doesn't have success.  

Are Minny fans wanting to move on from KAT and Ant-man because their team is 7-28?  

How about the Kings with Bagley and Fox?  They are 13-21.  Is every loss a referendum on whether Fox is a winning player or not? 

OKC with SGA??  He looks fantastic to me, but they are only 14-20.  Maybe he isn't a winning player.

The Wiz with Beal?  Hell he's even older than Trae and they aren't winning.  

 

It just makes me shake my head sometimes that Trae has had all sorts of success in his young career, set records, been included in groups of historic players that few other young players are, AND YET.....because the team hasn't seen the amount of win/loss improvement in the first half of year 3 that some in the fanbase think is appropriate (ignoring of course all of the other non-Trae factors), some in the fanbase are ready to write him off and move on. 

 

 

Do Minny fans question Kat and Ant man? Yes they do. Do Sac fans question Fox and Bagley? Yes they do. That's the nature of the business. It's tough to win in the NBA. 

[kg01]

On 3/1/2021 at 12:49 PM, REHawksFan said:

Sometimes I wonder if other teams fanbases have these same referendums on their star players when the team doesn't have success.  

Are Minny fans wanting to move on from KAT and Ant-man because their team is 7-28?  

How about the Kings with Bagley and Fox?  They are 13-21.  Is every loss a referendum on whether Fox is a winning player or not? 

OKC with SGA??  He looks fantastic to me, but they are only 14-20.  Maybe he isn't a winning player.

The Wiz with Beal?  Hell he's even older than Trae and they aren't winning.  

 

It just makes me shake my head sometimes that Trae has had all sorts of success in his young career, set records, been included in groups of historic players that few other young players are, AND YET.....because the team hasn't seen the amount of win/loss improvement in the first half of year 3 that some in the fanbase think is appropriate (ignoring of course all of the other non-Trae factors), some in the fanbase are ready to write him off and move on. 

 

 

Me 'n REalHawksFan ridin' on these Trhaters.

It's one thing to demand more and better from your star player, which is perfectly reasonable.  It's quite another to do what some of these jokers are doing, which is suggesting we should move on from him.

It's like folks forget we've been playing without key pieces during this recent struggle-period.  Heyul, Bogd still ain't acclimated yet.  Dafuq people want?

It's like they been infected by them realgm haters that've been calling Trae trash since before his 1st game.  Grow a pair, people.  Ballz?  Ovaries?  You pick.

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Me 'n REalHawksFan ridin' on these Trhaters.

It's one thing to demand more and better from your star player, which is perfectly reasonable.  It's quite another to do what some of these jokers are doing, which is suggesting we should move on from him.

It's like folks forget we've been playing without key pieces during this recent struggle-period.  Heyul, Bogd still ain't acclimated yet.  Dafuq people want?

It's like they been infected by them realgm haters that've been calling Trae trash since before his 1st game.  Grow a pair, people.  Ballz?  Ovaries?  You pick.

I'm not suggesting moving on from him. Talent is hard to come by in the NBA, you cant just move on from good players. Despite his flaws, 27 and 9 doesn't grow on trees. But Im not in favor of making him our sun, where everyone else is just orbiting Trae. Where every single move we make is how to protect Trae, or would this player work best with Trae. No thank you to that. He's not LeBron, sorry. Let's say we had the 3rd pick in last years draft, and we didnt take Ball. Dont know what we would have done, but my gut tells me they pass on Ball because his skill set and position is redundant with Trae. And what a terrible mistake that would have been. 

[benhillboy]

I loved all the nuances I saw to his team game last night.  Fouling Iggy hard on an easy layup and saved us a point.  Dove on the floor quick as hell and forced a jump ball.  Did his part on the extended three point converges.  
 

You have a great team and a leader when it’s very possible to win games with your focal player having a pedestrian offensive stat line.  So when he hits his averages or above it’s damn near impossible for you to lose.  That’s what leads to wire-to-wire blowouts with your starters on the bench for the final 4 minutes laughing and chemistry-building.

Like a coach quoted in the Okungwu post, defensive effort will never fail you like shooting often will.  I didn’t mind Trae taking (and making) those two bombs late after he helped the team lock down and we’re up 8.  It’s when he’s been giving up easy passes and dribble drives all game and decides to launch and miss them down 3 I have the issue.

I’d never ask him to be Patrick Beverly, surely wouldn’t want him to be.  Just give your body up for the sake of a positive point differential when called upon.  Clint and John risk getting poked in the eye, elbowed in the head, kneed in the nuts, and turning an ankle on someone’s foot damn near every play.  Coach Nate should instruct and expect Trae to help corral Kendrick freaking Nunn after he just dropped 26 on you.  Had Lloyd been on the sideline we would’ve had the same ho-hum coverages at the arc and on his cuts leading to the cliched “miscommunications” and he would’ve dropped 18-22 again with Herro or Robinson piggybacking off it.  Instead all them dudes were stifled and I always give credit to the PG when a good perimeter defensive effort is concerted and highly-rated.

I wanna see that same stick-your-nose-in play again tonight, MCW is a bum so it shouldn’t be that hard on a B2B.  Part of keeping John out late was strategic he’s gonna play 40 tonight and drop fiddy against Okeke and Aminu you kidding me.  

Edited March 3, 2021 by benhillboy

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I loved all the nuances I saw to his team game last night.  Fouling Iggy hard on an easy layup and saved us a point.  Dove on the floor quick as hell and forced a jump ball.  Did his part on the extended three point converges.  
 

You have a great team and a leader when it’s very possible to win games with your focal player having a pedestrian offensive stat line.  So when he hits his averages or above it’s damn near impossible for you to lose.  Like a coach quoted in the Okungwu post, defensive effort will never fail you like shooting often will.  I didn’t mind Trae taking (and making) those two bombs late after he helped the team lock down and we’re up 8.  It’s when he’s been giving up easy passes and dribble drives all game and decides to launch and miss them down 3 I have the issue.

I’d never ask him to be Beverly, wouldn’t want him to be.  Just give your body up for the sake of a positive point differential when called upon.  Clint and John risk getting poked in the eye, elbowed in the head, kneed in the nuts, and turning an ankle on someone’s foot damn near every play.  Coach Nate should instruct and expect Trae to help corral Kendrick freaking Nunn after he just dropped 26 on you.  Had Lloyd been on the sideline we would’ve had the same ho-hum coverages at the arc and on his cuts leading to the cliched “miscommunications” and he would’ve dropped 18-22 again.

I wanna see that same stick-your-nose-in play again tonight, MCW is a bum so it shouldn’t be that hard on a B2B.  Part of keeping John out late was strategic he’s gonna play 40 tonight and drop fiddy against Okeke and Aminu you kidding me.  

This sounds all great and rosy, but here's the thing - until ALL/MOST of the offensive burden is lifted from his shoulders it's a tall ask to expect this level all the time.  We've seen it in spurts so we know he can do it.  The others need to step up and do there part (like last night). Think about how much energy he is expounding just tryin to free himself when a team is playing ball deny or double teams cause them other dudes are scrubbing it up trying to get him back the ball instead of trying to make a play using their extra man advantage. There has to be a balance to this.

[Peoriabird]

On 3/1/2021 at 12:59 PM, bleachkit said:

Trae's defensively liabilities are really going to come front and center if we ever get into the playoffs. You think teams are exploiting him now, just wait until the playoffs where game plans are more refined  and match up oriented, it will be an absolute feeding frenzy. 

So Last night didn't happen?

[Peoriabird]

6 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Random Trae stats:

• Hawks improve to 12-2 when Trae shoots 40.0% + from 3PT (3-16 when he shoots less than 40%)

 

Well what are you waiting for?..Tell Trae to stop missing 3's

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Last night didn't happen?

I think his point is team key on weaknesses in a different way in the regular season than they do in the playoffs.  Think of the way teams exploited our defense under Woody in the playoffs vs the regular season.  
 

My hope is Trae will maintain the effort on D he had yesterday going forward under Nate.  We won’t know that for a bit since a lot of teams have a short-term boost after a change but can’t maintain that focus for the long term.

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So Last night didn't happen?

Last night was the final word on Trae's defense? Ok carve it in stone my man.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I think his point is team key on weaknesses in a different way in the regular season than they do in the playoffs.  Think of the way teams exploited our defense under Woody in the playoffs vs the regular season.  
 

My hope is Trae will maintain the effort on D he had yesterday going forward under Nate.  We won’t know that for a bit since a lot of teams have a short-term boost after a change but can’t maintain that focus for the long term.

Every where I go media and fans are dismissing Nate and job he has done.  I see the changes with my own Eyes cause things were much different last night and even in previous game with Nate as coach.  Guys were grinding even when shots weren't falling.  Trae was grinding.  I've never seen Trae grind like that.  They seem to want to play for Nate and that's obvious.  I think we will see this style of play from the team going forward this season.

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Last night was the final word on Trae's defense? Ok carve it in stone my man.

Last night showed you that he has it in him.