WTF! John Collins Suspended 25 Games!?!

[Duff_Man]

Just make this stuff within the rules. It's absurd.

[kg01]

13 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

WTF!!! MAN LEAVE GRANT OUTTA THIS HES MY 11th FAV HAWK OF ALL TIME! Sorry Gramps for the caps but this kg is workin me..

Grant Long sucked. Sucked.  Also-ran 90's power forward.  Yaaaawn

You're welcome for this cold splash of water on your Grant Long fanhood.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

Quote

 Pierce’s message to the group won’t be to admonish Collins’ decision to take GHRP-2, which Collins said he took “unbeknownst” to him, but it’ll be to educate the rest of the roster on the process of how to operate in the future.

The normal process for the team is that if there’s something wrong with the players’ bodies or if they are going to take any sort of supplement, Chelsea Lane, the team’s head of athletic performance training, should be contacted. If she’s unavailable at the time, any of the APT staff members would have knowledge about what should and shouldn’t be taken. The Hawks constantly have told each of the players to report, report and report some more — every ailment, every little tweak, everything. That’s why they have minute restrictions when a player is coming back from injury and have mandatory rehabilitation programs for those players. Failing to report leads to situations like Collins’ suspension.

Pierce explicitly said Collins took GHRP-2 without the Hawks’ knowledge. It’s unknown when exactly Collins was tested. Neither Lane nor Collins was made available for comment. A team source also said the NBA doesn’t exactly tell organizations when testing has occurred, so the Hawks weren’t notified of the precise date. The Hawks also were not given any sort of advance notice that this news was coming.

It’s helpful knowing the exact date of the testing because Brian Schulz, a sports medicine specialist at Cedars-Sinai Kerlan-Jone Institute in Los Angeles and former medical consultant with the Los Angeles Lakers, told The Athletic that the half life of GHRP-2 is about eight days. What that means is that’s how long it takes your body to excrete about half of the drug. It’s not going to take another eight days to fully get the rest out of your body, but it’s unclear how long after you take the drug that it would cause a positive test.

The widespread reporting surrounding the drug’s intended effect Tuesday was how it helps with increasing appetite. While that is one of the reasons why someone would take GHRP-2, Schulz says laboratory studies have shown that the drug stimulates growth hormone secretion and he believes this is the reason why a professional athlete would be using it, not for an increased appetite.

“The reason that an athlete would want to increase their growth hormone secretion is normally people who are growth hormone deficient — growth hormones have been shown to increase lean muscle mass and has been shown to increase exercise capacity and give people more energy,” Schulz said. “That’s with people who are deficient in it, though. I don’t think it has shown that necessarily in athletes, but it hasn’t been investigated enough with athletes because it’s banned by major sports leagues, USADA and the Olympics.

In Collins’ statement after his suspension was announced, he admitted to taking a supplement that was contaminated with GHRP-2. Schulz said the issue with players taking supplements that haven’t been certified by team doctors is that there’s no guarantee they have pure ingredients. A player might think he’s taking creatine or regular protein powder, but it doesn’t mean that there aren’t impurities in it. It’s not outside the realm of possibility that whatever Collins took on his own without the Hawks’ knowledge was contaminated. But, as Schulz notes, when he was with the Lakers and other organizations he consulted for, the burden of making sure you are 100 percent certain of what’s entering your body outside of the facility always falls on the player because the training staff has pure supplements that aren’t on the banned substances list.

It’s also of his medical opinion that the sole reason for any professional athlete who knowingly would take GHRP-2 — although Collins has pled ignorance — is to gain a competitive advantage. But it’s hard to say whether there’s any correlation to increased performance because studies don’t include people who have the same level of performance thresholds as a professional athlete.

“The objective of taking this drug is getting the results we’ve seen from people who are deficient with hormones in medical treatment,” Schulz said. “You are trying to get bigger, leaner muscles and have more energy. If you have more of an exercise capacity, with him being a professional athlete, he can already exercise for a much longer time at a higher intensity than you or I could. He can push his muscles to do that, so whoever thought this was a good idea to take this is probably hoping that that is the result. There’s no science behind this for a professional athlete because, again, it’s banned.”

 

[Sothron]

Thanks John. I could have drafted Doncic in the second round of our Hawksquawk 2 league but I had to go with a homer pick. I gotta stop doing that.

[AHF]

14 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Sounds like you're making the slippery slope argument, which is generally not a strong one. Bottom line is the case against PEDs is weak, they benefit athletes and their record of safety is well documented. The fact that some athletes might abuse them is immaterial. Any drug can be abused, responsible use is part of the deal. We don't ban cars because some are bad drivers. But like I said previously, they should be used under a doctor's supervision. The fact is the only harm athletes have faced from PEDs is the embarrassment of getting caught and harm to their career and reputation. Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong and hundreds of others are all in good health. The safety argument is total utter BS. It's time that PEDs become part of the allowable armentarium for recovery and improved performance.

Strawman.  You are incredibly naive if you think it will be responsible doctors making these decisions.  It isn't a slippery slope.  It is how it works today and how it will work in the future regardless of what drugs are on or off the banned list.  If guys think they can get a competitive advantage taking something their doctor didn't prescribe, they will take it.  Using your rule will expand the number of legal PEDs but fundamentally doesn't change the current dynamic.  The only scenario that works like you think it will is if you have no controls whatsoever.

[hazer]

15 hours ago, hazer said:

Errrrbody above 30 wins squirmin'

Not 'nymore!

[turnermx]

3 minutes ago, hazer said:

Not 'nymore!

As long as Trae is healthy I think we play .500+ ball over next 24 games.

[hazer]

4 minutes ago, turnermx said:

As long as Trae is healthy I think we play .500+ ball over next 24 games.

As I predicted 41-41, I'd tend to agree

 

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Grant Long sucked. Sucked.  Also-ran 90's power forward.  Yaaaawn

You're welcome for this cold splash of water on your Grant Long fanhood.

So you had to stay up to change diapers huh enjoooyyyy.

[Spud2nique]

4 hours ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

Then explain to me why every athlete that’s ever been caught with HGH wasn’t arrested immediately and served time? Last I checked, Barry Bonds is still a free man. It’s prescribed to children who are not growing at the same rate as other kids... it’s also prescribed to people with conditions related to aging which is how celebs get HGH injections all the time. Once again, it’s a controlled substance like Adderal or Oxy, but is not illegal if prescribed. Also, money talks and even physicians have a price.

OJ also got away with murder what’s ur point? It’s ILLEGAL! 

[bleachkit]

50 minutes ago, AHF said:

Strawman.  You are incredibly naive if you think it will be responsible doctors making these decisions.  It isn't a slippery slope.  It is how it works today and how it will work in the future regardless of what drugs are on or off the banned list.  If guys think they can get a competitive advantage taking something their doctor didn't prescribe, they will take it.  Using your rule will expand the number of legal PEDs but fundamentally doesn't change the current dynamic.  The only scenario that works like you think it will is if you have no controls whatsoever.

I'm fine with no controls, or some controls. But either way, PEDs should be an allowable part of the regimen. Even if it is just moving the goal posts as you suggest, that's not really the point. The point is expanding the options available for athletes as far as aiding in recovery and performance, drugs that augment testosterone or growth hormone being among those.

[turnermx]

49 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

OJ also got away with murder what’s ur point? It’s ILLEGAL! 

if the gloves don't fit, you must acquit! loved Johnny Cochran lol

[turnermx]

51 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

So you had to stay up to change diapers huh enjoooyyyy.

Add me to the pro-Grant Long list I loved that guy - I think kg showing his age got him confused with Hendu (Alan Henderson)

[turnermx]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

As I predicted 41-41, I'd tend to agree

 

I predicted 43-39, thats looking good too without any additional significant time lost due to injury. when John gets back the schedule will get easier.

[bleachkit]

Just now, turnermx said:

I predicted 43-39, thats looking good too without any additional significant time lost due to injury. when John gets back the schedule will get easier.

If we go .500 on our long road trip then we are good.

[Duff_Man]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Grant Long sucked. Sucked.  Also-ran 90's power forward.  Yaaaawn

You're welcome for this cold splash of water on your Grant Long fanhood.

Grant Long certainly did not suck.

[Spud2nique]

37 minutes ago, turnermx said:

Add me to the pro-Grant Long list I loved that guy - I think kg showing his age got him confused with Hendu (Alan Henderson)

Dr. Alan Henderson  

[AHF]

19 minutes ago, Duff_Man said:

Grant Long certainly did not suck.

Long was a strong role player who was an easy fit on any team.  Great defense and enough offense and rebounding to go with it.  Nice supporting man in the cast.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

Quote

In order to convince the arbitrator, the player faces a high burden of persuasion. He must prove by “clear and convincing evidence” that “he bears no significant fault or negligence” for the test result. In that same vein, the player must offer sufficient evidence to corroborate that he “did not know or suspect, and could not reasonably have known or suspected, even with the exercise of considerable caution and diligence, that he was taking, ingesting, applying, or otherwise using” a prohibited substance.

As a result of this high standard, a player who simply argues “I had no idea this would happen, you’ve got to believe me, I’d never do anything like this” would lose his appeal. Establishing an absence of bad intent is not enough. The player must also demonstrate that the manner in which he ingested a substance would not have given an ordinary NBA player in his position reasonable grounds to suspect he might have consumed a prohibited substance.

For Collins, he’ll need to detail how he obtained the supplement and what steps—if any—he took to assess the supplement’s ingredients. If, for example, Collins regularly uses this particular supplement and if he had not previously tested positive, he might credibly maintain that he had no reason to suspect that he would test positive this time around.

It appears Collins will argue such a point. His statement references alleged contamination of the supplement. This implies that the supplement would not ordinarily contain the “illegal component” that triggered the positive result. To the extent Collins preserved the bottle or other materials that contained the supplement, and to the extent other samples from that bottle/materials also show contamination, the more persuasive a defense Collins can raise.

The NBPA has a vested interest in seeing the suspensions of Ayton and Collins reduced. The union expended bargaining power in negotiating a drug policy that clearly distinguishes violators based on degree of fault. As Article XXXIII establishes, a player who mistakenly ingests a SPED or diuretic ought to be treated differently from one who knowingly or recklessly does so.

 

[kg01]

34 minutes ago, Duff_Man said:

Grant Long certainly did not suck.

Don't mind the snark I express towards spud.  I like to rankle him as much as possible.  Yes, Long did not "suck".  As AH said, he was a solid roleplayer.

Geez, didn't mean to rustle the Grant Long appreciation club's jimmies.

 

Next thing you know, a bunch-a Ivano Newbill fans gonna beat down my door.