WTF! John Collins Suspended 25 Games!?!

[Atlantaholic]

8 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

The designer drugs thing is largely a myth. Creating novel drugs is extremely difficult, meta testing on them also very arduous and difficult. The supplement John was taking was likely another bogus product claiming to have a "proprietary" formula, when really they are using trace amounts of existing pharmaceutical drugs, is this case an HGH analogue.

Where there is demand there is a way. You open the door wide open and every lab will be throwing their R&D money at making those drugs. Just look at the mainstream pharma industry and how much absolute garbage is being streamlined without proper testing. Now imagine that same environment with extreme performance enhancers, hormone drugs, steroids etc. That is not the way to go. 

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

That really sucks.  It's all jacked up these days.   I ain't believing that Lebron hasn't been doing this for years.  He just knows when the test is coming.

He's got the "confidential" test schedule stuck on his fridge under his Adam Silver's Head magnet. 

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Yeah right...

He absolutely could not know. Bogus products made overseas use trace amount of real pharmaceutical drugs. They will claim a proprietary formula or botanical, but really it's a small amount of an existing drug.

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, bleachkit said:

He absolutely could not know. Bogus products made overseas use trace amount of real pharmaceutical drugs. They will claim a proprietary formula or botanical, but really it's a small amount of an existing drug.

You know who knows, the Atlanta Hawks Medical Professionals. He should probably check with them before ingesting pharmaceutical products, I mean considering there is a stringent drug policy currently being enforced in the NBA and all. 

[Thomas]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If there is good news, Parker with this lineup is a +57.26.

 

.A. Len, .J. Parker, .T. Young, .C. Reddish, .D. Hunter

Wrong, it's actually +62.9

Absolutely crazy plus number there. Like you said, if there is good news thats it. We have to take what we are handed (in JC's case here) and move forward whether it sucks or not.

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Where there is demand there is a way. You open the door wide open and every lab will be throwing their R&D money at making those drugs. Just look at the mainstream pharma industry and how much absolute garbage is being streamlined without proper testing. Now imagine that same environment with extreme performance enhancers, hormone drugs, steroids etc. That is not the way to go. 

As long aa they as they get FDA approved, which is not easy, I'm all for advancing sports science, including new drugs. Your just parroting standard anti-drug fear mongering. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by bleachkit

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, Thomas said:

Absolutely crazy plus number there. Like you said, if there is good news thats it. We take what we are handed (in JC's case here) and move forward whether it sucks or not.

I think we can survive just fine as long as Parker stays healthy. If he goes down though... 

[terrell]

11 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Injuries are still a concern with Parker, he needs to prove his ligaments can stay intact for a significant amount of time. If he can do that, I think he can really blossom into something close to what people thought he would become when he was viewed as a potential #1 overall pick. That's a pretty huge if though, I'll grant you that. 

Nah, Parker is going to be the beneficiary of the Collins injury. He is going to get starter minutes and I think he may end up being just as efficient as Collins on the pick and roll with Trae. Assuming he can stay healthy that is. 

Hope youre right..

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

As they as they get FDA approved, which is not easy, I'm all for advancing sports science, including new drugs. Your just parroting standard anti-drug fear mongering. 

"fear-mongering" that's rich. Yes, we should trust the pharma labs with player safety. They are doing a bang up job with the general american public.  The FDA will look out for them. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Atlantaholic

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

I have nothing against Collins' personally and I'm still rooting for him. But it's his lack of IQ on display here that really makes you question whether investing a huge amount of cap on him long term is the right move. Still, as you said, he is incredibly young, so it's harsh to write him off outright. There is still a season left to play so let's see how the team handles this stretch and then how Collins rebounds from this mess when he returns. 

If we were to always judge a person by their worse mistake without room for a 2nd chance then none of us would have a prayer in this world. There has to be room for him to redeem himself.

Honestly, I'm not worried about paying JC what the market bears, the money he gets will not be determined by this. It will be determined more so by his play when he returns.  If he goes on a tear when he returns, this will be nothing more than a momentary blip on the radar. The team will have more wiggle room in negotiations, that is all.

Am I disappointed, heck yea...but I want to keep the players that can help us win...if JC is one of those players going forward....I'm on board. I'm not gonna throw the baby out with the bath water. I'm not gonna cut off my nose to spite my face.

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

"fear-mongering" that's rich. Yes, we should trust the pharma labs with player safety. They are doing a bang up job with the general american public.  The FDA will look out for them. 

So you don't trust our federal regulatory system? That's a different issue entirely. But closing the door on novel medicines that could aid in recovery or enhance in performance out of irrational fear is not the answer. Said drugs could have applications beyond sports as well.

Edited November 5, 2019 by bleachkit

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, bleachkit said:

So you don't trust our federal regulatory system? That's a different issue entirely. But closing the door on novel medicines that could aid in recovery or enhance in performance out of irrational fear is not the answer. Said frugs could have applications beyond sports as well.

I don't disagree with allowing new drugs, I disagree with allowing all drugs period. 

[bleachkit]

7 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

I don't disagree with allowing new drugs, I disagree with allowing all drugs period. 

Do you have a reason why exactly? Fears about safety are grossly exaggerated. Look at all the retired PED users in baseball, by and large they are all in perfectly good health. Like I said, views on drugs have always been driven by propaganda, not hard science.

[AHF]

Maybe bleachkit isn't arguing for an open door on all drugs but simply revising the permitted drugs list to a broader list.  I'm of the view that people should follow whatever list the NBA owners and players association agree on.  That won't eliminate the need for drug testing because you are always going to have people stepping beyond the lines wherever  you draw them.  There is too much money up for grabs for people to not reach for the promise of the one thing their competitors can't use to give themselves an edge.  We've seen in the past that athletes are not well-informed scientists and at least some of them will reach for anything that their trainer, dealer, etc. convinces them will give them an edge -- amphetamines, animal steroid formularies, eating animal testicles, opiates, etc.  Unless you remove all rules around substances, you are always going to have a banned list and people who will push beyond what is allowed to try to give themselves an edge.  

I just want a level playing field and safe protocols.  If that means allowing HGH, steroids, etc. then that is fine.  But if the owners and players' union agree to ban those, then throw the book at people who break the rules to try to give themselves an advantage over their competitors.  

[Atlantaholic]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Do you have a reason why exactly? Fears about safety are grossly exaggerated. Look at all the retired PED users in baseball, by and large they are all in perfectly good health. Like I said, views on drugs have always been driven by propaganda, not hard science.

This is a circular argument, I already explained why, If you don't agree with me then there is nothing else to say outside of just that. 

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

Maybe bleachkit isn't arguing for an open door on all drugs but simply revising the permitted drugs list to a broader list.  I'm of the view that people should follow whatever list the NBA owners and players association agree on.  That won't eliminate the need for drug testing because you are always going to have people stepping beyond the lines wherever  you draw them.  There is too much money up for grabs for people to not reach for the promise of the one thing their competitors can't use to give themselves an edge.  We've seen in the past that athletes are not well-informed scientists and at least some of them will reach for anything that their trainer, dealer, etc. convinces them will give them an edge -- amphetamines, animal steroid formularies, eating animal testicles, opiates, etc.  Unless you remove all rules around substances, you are always going to have a banned list and people who will push beyond what is allowed to try to give themselves an edge.  

I just want a level playing field and safe protocols.  If that means allowing HGH, steroids, etc. then that is fine.  But if the owners and players' union agree to ban those, then throw the book at people who break the rules to try to give themselves an advantage over their competitors.  

Agree 100%.

[hazer]

Well GOTdamn John...

Hellooooooo Trae/Cam/Dre/Jabari/Bruno, 'chall gonna do?

[mcleitsy]

Time to change my profile pic...

I don't like the use of PEDs. I get that Bron and the other stars do it. I don't even fault JC or Lance Armstrong or any other athlete for doing it, its not my career, and I get that more often than not the athletes are just trying to stay competitive with the other cheaters. Just sucks they would tag a guy like Collins because nobody could give two shits about the Hawks in the national media landscape.

 

But definitely not what you want to learn about your favorite player.

[NBASupes]

LeBron been tested positive for peds?

[terrell]

Have they tested Porzingis yet? JUst sayin..

[bleachkit]

That's why I propose just allowing the use of them. League would probably protect certain players and not others, just like they did with Jordan during the 90s with his gambling and the like.