Are good enough to not care about the lottery?

[capstone21]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

I presume that will change once we're whole.  After all, it didn't start until after the injuries/suspension.  How soon you blokes forget.

(Yeah, I'm using 'bloke' now.  Jealous?)

I didn't forget mate (Aussie Accent) ... Collins coming back doesn't fix our defensive woes.

[Buzzard]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I hear you.  I sure hope we're not giving up on 2 1st rounders after less than half a season though.  Actually, I'd lean towards doubting he'd be that reactive.  Then again, he already gave up on one 1st rounder after just one season so ...

We have two picks provided the Nets' conveys. I would not give up both to get Steven Adams, but I would send OKC one. I would make the stipulation that it is the lesser of the two in case we stay in the lottery. If the Nets' pick does not convey, the traded pick turns into a 2021 lottery protected 1st.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Buzzard

[JayBirdHawk]

30-31 wins was the Hawks analytical projections - so I think they were eyeing the lottery.  If we won more great. I also don't see them 'tanking' the end of season.

[Spud2nique]

Culture building >tanking 

At our current stage.

Note: If we are a bottom 3 team in late March though I may load manage a few players due to wear n year and let the chips fall. But our ultimate goal for now is to build good habits and culture and start winning some games with our youngsters.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Spud2nique

[Buzzard]

12 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

30-31 wins was the Hawks analytical projections - so I think they were eyeing the lottery.  If we won more great. I also don't see them 'tanking' the end of season.

I quit buying into the models that always project us as horrible. Seems the Hawks always outperform these projections. Injuries have crushed us so far this season. Even with that we are only 5.5 games out of the 8th seed. There are some winnable games in December and that is key for me.

Bulls, Pacers, Knicks, Jazz, Nets, Cavaliers, Bulls, Magic

Tougher games are:

Heat, Lakers, Bucks

If we can at least go around .500 and then get Collins back, its on and January could be our month.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Buzzard

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

I quit buying into the models that always project us as horrible. Seems the Hawks always outperform these projections. Injuries have crushed us so far this season. Even with that we are only 5.5 games out of the 8th seed. There are some winnable games in December and that is key for me.

Bulls, Pacers, Knicks, Jazz, Nets, Cavaliers, Bulls, Magic

Tougher games are:

Heat, Lakers, Bucks

If we can at least go around .500 and then get Collins back, its on and January could be our month.

 

 

Travis Schlenk literally said 30 - 31 wins were the internal team's estimates of this season.  That seems like a top 8 pick to me.  

I don't believe the Hawks are going to make any significant moves, no matter if Trae gets pissed or not.  They have continually said, don't skip steps.  Like @lethalweapon3 said, if they start making moves, it won't be due to Trae and his demands, but Tony and his demands.

Hopefully, we stay the course and somehow end of up with Anthony Edwards or James Wiseman (fingers crossed).

Edited December 9, 2019 by marco102

[Spud2nique]

11 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Tony

Wife’s kinda cute tho ahhh Ahhhhhh?  

Have you been to the concession stands? Looks good.  

 

[Buzzard]

14 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Travis Schlenk literally said 30 - 31 wins were the internal team's estimates of this season.  That seems like a top 8 pick to me.  

I don't believe the Hawks are going to make any significant moves, no matter if Trae gets pissed or not.  They have continually said, don't skip steps.  Like @lethalweapon3 said, if they start making moves, it won't be due to Trae and his demands, but Tony and his demands.

Hopefully, we stay the course and somehow end of up with Anthony Edwards or James Wiseman (fingers crossed).

If we could get Adams, I would love it. There is only one highly thought of Center ( Wiseman ) in this draft. The others are PF/C types and most are undersized. I do not think there is a defensive center as good as Adams in this draft except maybe Wiseman.

Even if we get the best odds of 14% for being so bad, that is not as good as getting a shoe in 26 year old Adams. That very old saying, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush comes quickly to mind.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Buzzard

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Tony

Let me guess. Tony, Tony, Tony and Tony? 
 

Sorry I just saw the Irishman.  

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

If we could get Adams, I would love it. There is only one highly thought of Center ( Wiseman ) in this draft. The others are PF/C types and most are undersized. I do not think there is a defensive center as good as Adams in this draft except maybe Wiseman.

Even if we get the best odds of 14% for being so bad, that is not as good as getting a shoe in 26 year old Adams. That very old saying, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush comes quickly to mind.

I just noticed Adams has missed 25 games in 6+ seasons! I knew dude was durable but for this day and age of no hand 🖐 checking and load management and I have a boo boo on my arm, that’s pretty awesome. He’s only 26 and roughed as hell, doesn’t need or ask for the ball, is a huge physical presence both of screen setting and taking up space.

I believe in building through the draft and all but sometimes you may need to pick and plug from another team. 
 

I often liken Trae to Zeke. Well this is exactly what the Pistons did, well not exactly but they didn’t draft Laimbeer. He was a Cav and they traded for him in year 2 I believe, maybe year 3. Laimbeer was “the bodyguard” for Zeke for the next decade. They won 2 rings.

Steven Adams- I hate to say it but a modern day Laimbeer. Not in the actual tools per say as I remember Bill having a fantastic perimeter stroke while Adams doesn’t have that in his arsenal but rather an old school traditional big man game. Where Bill and Steven are similar is they are a stable rock and a physical presence and do all the dirty work and are both borderline dirty players. Ok sorry, I’ll call a spade a spade , Laimbeer was dirty as hell and I must say I hated him due to beef with Nique. 
 

I digress...

Zeke/Laimbeer

Trae/Adams

Only reason....the only reason I don’t like Adams...perimeter scoring. I honestly think Trae’s passing ability can offset that. Trae may be the only one...oh and cp3, Adams current teammate that can offset Steven not being able to shoot from distance.

 

[Buzzard]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I just noticed Adams has missed 25 games in 6+ seasons! I knew dude was durable but for this day and age of no hand 🖐 checking and load management and I have a boo boo on my arm, that’s pretty awesome. He’s only 26 and roughed as hell, doesn’t need or ask for the ball, is a huge physical presence both of screen setting and taking up space.

I believe in building through the draft and all but sometimes you may need to pick and plug from another team. 
 

I often liken Trae to Zeke. Well this is exactly what the Pistons did, well not exactly but they didn’t draft Laimbeer. He was a Cav and they traded for him in year 2 I believe, maybe year 3. Laimbeer was “the bodyguard” for Zeke for the next decade. They won 2 rings.

Steven Adams- I hate to say it but a modern day Laimbeer. Not in the actual tools per say as I remember Bill having a fantastic perimeter stroke while Adams doesn’t have that in his arsenal but rather an old school traditional big man game. Where Bill and Steven are similar is they are a stable rock and a physical presence and do all the dirty work and are both borderline dirty players. Ok sorry, I’ll call a spade a spade , Laimbeer was dirty as hell and I must say I hated him due to beef with Nique. 
 

I digress...

Zeke/Laimbeer

Trae/Adams

Only reason....the only reason I don’t like Adams...perimeter scoring. I honestly think Trae’s passing ability can offset that. Trae may be the only one...oh and cp3, Adams current teammate that can offset Steven not being able to shoot from distance.

 

Schlenk has drafted enough three point shooters to field a very perimeter oriented team. I don't think one body guard down low is going to clog the middle for us. I do not like Adams free throw shooting at all; but for some reason teams do not foul him a lot. He gets to the line less than four attempts per game.

I guess those new hack a shaq rules have made some what of a difference.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

35 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Travis Schlenk literally said 30 - 31 wins were the internal team's estimates of this season.  That seems like a top 8 pick to me.  

I don't believe the Hawks are going to make any significant moves, no matter if Trae gets pissed or not.  They have continually said, don't skip steps.  Like @lethalweapon3 said, if they start making moves, it won't be due to Trae and his demands, but Tony and his demands.

Hopefully, we stay the course and somehow end of up with Anthony Edwards or James Wiseman (fingers crossed).

Trae was break even all metrics. Right now he is +3 which is all star starter value for his mpg. They have a legit all star. They have assets. They have options

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae was break even all metrics. Right now he is +3 which is all star starter value for his mpg. They have a legit all star. They have assets. They have options

They do have options, but to attempt to make the playoffs this year and miss out on a better long term prospect seems a bit off to me.  We can restructure the team during next year's free agency, but let's say we get an Anthony Edwards and he turns into Trae Young on offense with solid defense as a rookie.  The chances of that happening are slim I know, but that's how you build a champion.  You need at least two superstars to get this done.  Trae is trending to Superstar territory.  Cam has the potential if he puts it all together, but who knows how long that takes. John has all star potential.  We still need draft capital too and I see no point in wasting it to get swept by the Milwaukee Bucks in the first round.

Now, if the team as constructed makes it to the playoffs, I have no qualms.  I'm just not willings to  give any draft capital up to make moves to get to the playoffs this season.  

To me, next season will be the season to make the real push for the playoffs and make an attempt to be at a minimum a five seed.  Trae, Kev, and John will be in their third and fourth seasons, respectively, and that's when I expected everyone to take the leap.  Trae just decided to do the damn thing this year while Kev and John have been out.  

I should add, in yesterday's game, Kev's ball handling was much improved from last year.  Can't wait until he gets into a consistent groove.

[Buzzard]

20 minutes ago, marco102 said:

They do have options, but to attempt to make the playoffs this year and miss out on a better long term prospect seems a bit off to me.  We can restructure the team during next year's free agency, but let's say we get an Anthony Edwards and he turns into Trae Young on offense with solid defense as a rookie.  The chances of that happening are slim I know, but that's how you build a champion.  You need at least two superstars to get this done.  Trae is trending to Superstar territory.  Cam has the potential if he puts it all together, but who knows how long that takes. John has all star potential.  We still need draft capital too and I see no point in wasting it to get swept by the Milwaukee Bucks in the first round.

Now, if the team as constructed makes it to the playoffs, I have no qualms.  I'm just not willings to  give any draft capital up to make moves to get to the playoffs this season.  

To me, next season will be the season to make the real push for the playoffs and make an attempt to be at a minimum a five seed.  Trae, Kev, and John will be in their third and fourth seasons, respectively, and that's when I expected everyone to take the leap.  Trae just decided to do the damn thing this year while Kev and John have been out.  

I should add, in yesterday's game, Kev's ball handling was much improved from last year.  Can't wait until he gets into a consistent groove.

I know from Schlenk's comments when he was first hired, having top five picks is not seen by him as a necessity. GSW was built with two #7s, #11, and a #35. I also know they made a bold move in trading Monte Ellis, Ekpe Udoh, and Kwame Brown in 2012 for Jackson and Bogut. This was during Steph's 3rd season.

Its only Trae's 2nd, so another season of waiting could be in the works. Trae is ahead of Steph in pure output at similar times in their careers. I don't think Travis is afraid to make a move though if he thinks it is the right one.

A very funny thing about that big trade, most thought the Bucks won pretty easily. Ended up being a great move to free up Curry and Klay, while giving GSW a bully in the post to take care of their teams perceived softness.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1103639-warriors-bucks-trade-winners-and-losers-in-monta-ellis-andrew-bogut-deal#slide2

Edited December 9, 2019 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

42 minutes ago, marco102 said:

They do have options, but to attempt to make the playoffs this year and miss out on a better long term prospect seems a bit off to me.  We can restructure the team during next year's free agency, but let's say we get an Anthony Edwards and he turns into Trae Young on offense with solid defense as a rookie.  The chances of that happening are slim I know, but that's how you build a champion.  You need at least two superstars to get this done.  Trae is trending to Superstar territory.  Cam has the potential if he puts it all together, but who knows how long that takes. John has all star potential.  We still need draft capital too and I see no point in wasting it to get swept by the Milwaukee Bucks in the first round.

Now, if the team as constructed makes it to the playoffs, I have no qualms.  I'm just not willings to  give any draft capital up to make moves to get to the playoffs this season.  

To me, next season will be the season to make the real push for the playoffs and make an attempt to be at a minimum a five seed.  Trae, Kev, and John will be in their third and fourth seasons, respectively, and that's when I expected everyone to take the leap.  Trae just decided to do the damn thing this year while Kev and John have been out.  

I should add, in yesterday's game, Kev's ball handling was much improved from last year.  Can't wait until he gets into a consistent groove.

We probably aren't making the playoffs. The goal is to compete and develop. Right now, we aren't competing, we look like a tank team. Even with Collins, we had clear issues. 

We got worse, we need to at least be as good as last year in terms of the supporting cast around Trae.

We can do that without breaking the bank

 

For assets we got:

In rank

Bembry - rookie deal, BR

Parker - good deal he is on

Len who we likely want to keep

Jones - rookie deal, BR

Crabbe, Turner, Parsons - expirings

2nd rounders

 

We got a lot of assets. It's not big assets or anything special but it's just enough in this climate. 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by NBASupes

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We probably aren't making the playoffs. The goal is to compete and develop. Right now, we aren't competing, we look like a tank team. Even with Collins, we had clear issues. 

We got worse, we need to at least be as good as last year in terms of the supporting cast around Trae.

We can do that without breaking the bank

Record wise we are better than last year at this point. Last year, the team started 6-23.  I think we'll be better than that this year.  Hopefully, 10 - 19 or so.  That'll be pretty good all things considered. 

When Collins returns and the schedule not being rough, this team will compete.  That's not to say they won't get the occasional blow out, but that happened last year too. 

Before making any moves, I'd like to see the team with everyone healthy and in their correct roles.  Damian Jones has surprisingly shown a lot of improvement lately.  I just want to watch the young guys improve and see what we have before shipping them off for some vet that won't move the needle either way.

 

 

[NBASupes]

Just now, marco102 said:

Record wise we are better than last year at this point. Last year, the team started 6-23.  I think we'll be better than that this year.  Hopefully, 10 - 19 or so.  That'll be pretty good all things considered. 

When Collins returns and the schedule not being rough, this team will compete.  That's not to say they won't get the occasional blow out, but that happened last year too. 

Before making any moves, I'd like to see the team with everyone healthy and in their correct roles.  Damian Jones has surprisingly shown a lot of improvement lately.  I just want to watch the young guys improve and see what we have before shipping them off for some vet that won't move the needle either way.

 

 

Yeah, because Trae was garbage this time last year. What I am talking about about is the team around Trae. We were much better. This team is ass and with John, they are just hit or miss. 

Look, our wings are gonna be young, we get that but our bench is weaker and our starting center is the worst in the NBA. Upgrades from the outside are needed. Things just didn't go as planned.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Yeah, because Trae was garbage this time last year. What I am talking about about is the team around Trae. We were much better. This team is ass and with John, they are just hit or miss. 

Look, our wings are gonna be young, we get that but our bench is weaker and our starting center is the worst in the NBA. Upgrades from the outside are needed. Things just didn't go as planned.

Garbage is a bit strong.  Trae was a typical rookie this time last year.   

I'm just saying you don't know what you have until your team is at full strength.  Yesterday,  for example, with the return of Kevin.  The team played much better defense and offense when Trae wasn't on the court.  The main problem with the defense right now is Jabari being a started.  Once John comes back, we will probably start Alex Len again and the defense will be much improved.  

I just want the wait and see approach.  Guys in proper roles makes a ton of difference.  Also, our wings are rookies.  We should at least give them until trade deadline next season before reducing their minutes for vets.  

Btw, not saying upgrades to the vets are not needed, just saying they should occur during free agency and not during the season unless the young core is realistically approaching the playoffs.

[macdaddy]

We need Collins back and we need a backup PG who can shoot.  I'm not sure what else is out there that will upgrade other items without giving up some of our young talent.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Garbage is a bit strong.  Trae was a typical rookie this time last year.   

I'm just saying you don't know what you have until your team is at full strength.  Yesterday,  for example, with the return of Kevin.  The team played much better defense and offense when Trae wasn't on the court.  The main problem with the defense right now is Jabari being a started.  Once John comes back, we will probably start Alex Len again and the defense will be much improved.  

I just want the wait and see approach.  Guys in proper roles makes a ton of difference.  Also, our wings are rookies.  We should at least give them until trade deadline next season before reducing their minutes for vets.  

Btw, not saying upgrades to the vets are not needed, just saying they should occur during free agency and not during the season unless the young core is realistically approaching the playoffs.

He was garbage by all of the metrics by this point for a starting PG. 

Who said we should reduce their minutes? The players we need are at other positions. Starting center. Backup PG. A better big off the bench than Parker. If anything, it clears up more time and minutes for Reddish, Huerter and Hunter. Get guys like Bembry out of the picture. 

They need to do it December 15th. That way we can see if the guys we traded for fit, if it does, just resign them and put ourselves in position to continuing building for 2020-2021.

Spending recklessly in the offseason doesn't appeal to me. I rather see what we got. Then decide. That's why I am not mad at Travis for doing nothing in FA. He wanted to see the growth of the vets. He saw, homie hated it, Damon Wayans told him homie don't play that shit.

Parker was always a reclamation project and he been doing well for us.

Jones build up his value as well. 

Len proved he is a 2nd center and a backup, fine. 

Bembry improved but isn't the best fit.

Now it's time for upgrades