Collins ain't fixing this

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

In my perfect world...  we trade for Whitesides and Klay.   But that's me on the pipe.   My point is that when you don't have paint protection, you look for a rim protecting C.   Not a positional defender.  We were a lost waiting to happen against bigger teams because Horf couldn't protect the rim.  Big guys used to dominate him and we had to rely on outscoring other teams.  I would have rather we had both a rim protector and somebody to help on the perimeter.  

Finally about Whitesides.  He's an easy trade.   Something like Chandler could get him.   Give me a player who fits a need for a player who fits nothing everyday. 

 

I repeat...

Coming into this game, Hawks rated high on blocks. Low on steals, defensive efficiency, offensively execution, rebounding and transition defense. 

Of those low end items, the only one he can help us in is rebounding.

So how is Whiteside going to help us. We are actually one of the better teams at defending the paint by percentages now by possessions given, not at all but by actual percentages, we aren't that bad.

Having a big who can communicate, defend in space, have good BBIQ and rebound while at least being useful off the ball on offense would be a huge plus. 

Someone like Whiteside will only disappoint 

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

It’s true that Cam is playing a little better in December than in November, but when you’re playing as bad as he was in November, there is only one way to go.

Yes, my meaning was that he lacks explosiveness. I don’t think he is as quick as you think he is....And his finishing? Eh.

Sorry, not as impressed as you.

A little bit better? Come on son, seriously, a little bit? 

I don't know how quick you think Cam is to answer this for you.

His finishing was insanely awful at Duke. I mentioned it plenty of times. What I saw in preseason and in the first 5 games was enough to say this might be a long time issue. 

What I see today is a night and day difference. Is it good? NO. Even decent? No but is it MUCH improved. That's all I can ask for. Much more improved then I thought was possible at this time. 

That much is obvious. You just said it isn't talented. That's one of the most boneheaded things I've read on this site and you are normally a 40/60 hater. So you always have some truth to your takes even if it's over the top. 

Like your trade Kevin and John take. Your take was that they will make too much and it will limit us as they aren't that good. I completely didn't agree with one take but I saw the other take as something that is worth looking into. 

But this take from you. Boo boo. The worse I've ever read from you and I tend to give you a listen more than 99% of the other posters who tune you out. I always seen both sides. I even see it with Bonkers and LK but this one here. I don't see it. I just don't, you are usually smarter than this. A lot smarter than this. One of the best minds on this site

Edited December 12, 2019 by NBASupes

[Plainview1981]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

A little bit better? Come on son, seriously, a little bit? 

I don't know how quick you think Cam is to answer this for you.

His finishing was insanely awful at Duke. I mentioned it plenty of times. What I saw in preseason and in the first 5 games was enough to say this might be a long time issue. 

What I see today is a night and day difference. Is it good? NO. Even decent? No but is it MUCH improved. That's all I can ask for. Much more improved then I thought was possible at this time. 

That much is obvious. You just said it isn't talented. That's one of the most boneheaded things I've read on this site and you are normally a 40/60 hater. So you always have some truth to your takes even if it's over the top. 

Like your trade Kevin and John take. Your take was that they will make too much and it will limit us as they aren't that good. I completely didn't agree with one take but I saw the other take as something that is worth looking into. 

But this take from you. Boo boo. The worse I've ever read from you and I tend to give you a listen more than 99% of the other posters who tune you out. I always seen both sides. I even see it with Bonkers and LK but this one here. I don't see it. I just don't, you are usually smarter than this. A lot smarter than this. One of the best minds on this site

I’m just going to have to see a lot more.

When I say “doesn’t have the talent” I mean in the context of living up to the hype and draft position. That’s ultimately what is expected. 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

I’m just going to have to see a lot more.

When I say “doesn’t have the talent” I mean in the context of living up to the hype and draft position. That’s ultimately what is expected. 

 

 

 

I can't project what you wanted to see or expect. From what I wanted after the draft, I wanted 10 3 shots a game with similar to today production on a nightly basis. That's what my initial expectation was. 

Right now, I can only compare him to what he was in the preseason and in the first 5 games. He is much better right than that player. That's a fact. So far, I am happy with the results. I am sorry if he has underwhelmed you or I gave you false expectations. Right now, he is doing what I wanted. Volume 3 point shooting, being a threat with all units and having the ability to play the PnR as well as play good defense for a rookie which he has overly met my expectations. 

I don't know what you expected. 

Here are the last 10 1st rounders at 10.

2019 Cam Reddish, Duke – Atlanta Hawks
2018 Mikal Bridges, Villanova – Phoenix Suns
2017 Zach Collins, Gonzaga – Sacramento Kings
2016 Thon Maker, Canada – Milwaukee Bucks
2015 Justise Winslow, Duke – Miami HEAT
2014 Elfrid Payton, Louisiana Layfayette – Philadelphia 76ers
2013 C.J. McCollum, Lehigh – Portland Trail Blazers
2012 Austin Rivers, UNC – New Orleans Hornets
2011 Jimmer Fredette, BYU – Milwaukee Bucks
2010 Paul George, Fresno State – Indiana Pacers

Other than Mikal Bridges, none of them had positive impact by December. Even Mikal was limited as a rookie.

You don't draft an obvious star at #10. They felt to #10 for a reason. Cam is no different. 

 

Before that,

2009 Brandon Jennings, Italy – Milwaukee Bucks
2008 Brook Lopez, Stanford – New Jersey Nets
2007 Spencer Hawes, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2006 Saer Sene, Senegal – Seattle Supersonics
2005 Andrew Bynum, St. Joseph (NJ) HS – L.A. Lakers
2004 Luke Jackson, Oregon – Cleveland Cavaliers
2003 Jarvis Hayes, Georgia – Washington Wizards
2002 Caron Butler, Connecticut – Miami HEAT
2001 Joe Johnson, Arkansas – Boston Celtics
2000 Keyon Dooling, Missouri – Orlando Magic

Edited December 12, 2019 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, sillent said:

I like the debbie downers timing lol... Let's hear what the noise is come February, Not saying w will completely right the ship but the schedule is definitely about to get alot more friendly for us. That includes the teams we face, having our main core back and internal growth overall. 

What's more schedule friendly than facing the Bulls?

[IheartVolt]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

This team really hasn't played good Basketball all year for a stretch. We are trash. Let's remember

We lost

Lin

Dedmon

Prince

Bazemore

And 

Kev been hurt and Collins been suspended but even those two were here, the offense has been ass all year.

Stfu

You should stop getting mad at comments like this. The reason being is that the comment is 100% true. Guy should have been traded yesterday to cut our losses

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I agree with all of it which is why I want another swing at the draft.  Alex Len has shown to be a great backup center and once Collins is back then Jabari will be back on the bench.  Hopefully that will limit the small ball with Vince.

To me, not have a backup PG is the biggest weakness this team has and is what our first round pick needs to be.  As for a starting center, I want a veteran for that. Someone whose been in the league 5+ years and can bring some experience with him.

My question is what do we see as Huerter's place? Is he our starting SG or is he our sixth man?

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

 

To me, not have a backup PG is the biggest weakness this team has and is what our first round pick needs to be.

I emphasized this before the season and was told that back up point guards are a dime a dozen

My question is what do we see as Huerter's place? Is he our starting SG or is he our sixth man?

I also have maintained that Huerter is not a starter in the NBA

 

[terrell]

33 minutes ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

I agree with all of it which is why I want another swing at the draft.  Alex Len has shown to be a great backup center and once Collins is back then Jabari will be back on the bench.  Hopefully that will limit the small ball with Vince.

To me, not have a backup PG is the biggest weakness this team has and is what our first round pick needs to be.  As for a starting center, I want a veteran for that. Someone whose been in the league 5+ years and can bring some experience with him.

My question is what do we see as Huerter's place? Is he our starting SG or is he our sixth man?

Agreed. This draft is too pg heavy not to take one...Hell Im taking one with OUR pick if we fall out of the top 2....

[kg01]

Players I need gone ...

- Parker: Some guys are culture-setters, Parker is the opposite of that.

- Crabbe: Sneaky awful defender, questionable shot .... without those two things, what TF are you?

- Bembry: The party's over.  Did it ever start?  Whatever he was supposed to be, he ain't that.  Supposed to be a defender.  Nah.  On that last-second shot Jimi Buttler missed, Bembry's "defense" created more space than Buttler created on his own.  #ByeBembry

- Jones: *sigh*  If I see him give that stupid, incredulous look, palms-raised after committing a dumb foul or blowing a free throw or missing a rotation or ... just sucking, in general ... my head may implode into my neck.

- All our 2-way guys: We desperately need NBA-caliber bodies.  If you can't earn minutes for this team .. by now, basketball just ain't for you.  UPS is always hiring this time of year.  Bye.

- Chandelier Parsons/Evan Turner: Do I really need to speak to these?  Bye.

- Vince. Bartholomew. Carter: I know the purpose he serves but, based on our constant no-show gutless performances, his voice has exhausted it's usefulness.  Now all we got is an aged, weathered future HOFer taking minutes/shots from young guys we need to develop.  Bye

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We clearly need a positional defender. We also clearly need a paint protector. We need a lot...

BUT WE KNEW THAT GOING INTO THE SEASON!!!  (well some of us)

This is still a team that is still REBUILDING.

It's been said time and time again - the Center position is the next position that needs addressing either in the draft or FAcy.  Followed by backup PG

We've got our PG and star in Trae.  We thought we would have or 1/2 offensive punch in Trae and John. (then JC did an assinine thing) We thought we had our sniper in Huerter (got hurt), we thought we fixed our wing defense with Hunter and Reddish (still rookies)  - that's our Rebuilding Core more with more to come!

The trio of Trae, John and Huerter have not played one game together!  Now I'm not saying that John will make all that ails us go away, I'm just saying teams will have to defend us differently, Pierce can actually have more fixed rotations, bench players expectations on playing time can be buttoned up, etc.

When you temper expectations, you are not surprised by outcomes (though I hate blowouts).  The surprise you want is to exceed expectations given roster limitations.  We have been further limited by Suspensions and injuries. 

[High5]

10 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Wait...I said all of this before the season and got chased off the site.  What gives?  I also added that a bad roster would lead to bad habits like Hero ball which is on full display right now.

You weren't chased off of the site. You were embarrassed enough by your bad takes (and silly avatar bet) to leave on your own.  

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

It’s true that Cam is playing a little better in December than in November, but when you’re playing as bad as he was in November, there is only one way to go.

Yes, my meaning was that he lacks explosiveness. I don’t think he is as quick as you think he is....And his finishing? Eh.

Sorry, not as impressed as you.

But that is exactly what you want when rookies struggle out of the gate.  For them to improve on their weakness as the season progresses:

1st 5 games (October) of his NBA career - 1-18 from 3 for 5.5%
12 games in November: 12-43 for 27.9%
Last 5 games (December) : 11-28 from 3 for 39.3%

How do you not appreciate that?

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Agreed. This draft is too pg heavy not to take one...Hell Im taking one with OUR pick if we fall out of the top 2....

This. It doesn't change the fact we need to trade for one but we clearly need to draft one.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

What's more schedule friendly than facing the Bulls?

Not facing the Bulls on an back to back on the road after losing in deflating fashion in overtime to the Heat because of your Coach's brain fart the previous night and getting in at 3AM in cold Chicago? 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Players I need gone ...

- Parker: Some guys are culture-setters, Parker is the opposite of that.

- Crabbe: Sneaky awful defender, questionable shot .... without those two things, what TF are you?

- Bembry: The party's over.  Did it ever start?  Whatever he was supposed to be, he ain't that.  Supposed to be a defender.  Nah.  On that last-second shot Jimi Buttler missed, Bembry's "defense" created more space than Buttler created on his own.  #ByeBembry

- Jones: *sigh*  If I see him give that stupid, incredulous look, palms-raised after committing a dumb foul or blowing a free throw or missing a rotation or ... just sucking, in general ... my head may implode into my neck.

- All our 2-way guys: We desperately need NBA-caliber bodies.  If you can't earn minutes for this team .. by now, basketball just ain't for you.  UPS is always hiring this time of year.  Bye.

- Chandelier Parsons/Evan Turner: Do I really need to speak to these?  Bye.

- Vince. Bartholomew. Carter: I know the purpose he serves but, based on our constant no-show gutless performances, his voice has exhausted it's usefulness.  Now all we got is an aged, weathered future HOFer taking minutes/shots from young guys we need to develop.  Bye

Yes. Please trade Vince by Feb to a contending team. He’s done his job and then some. We won’t find out how good of a job he’s actually done until 4 or 5 years from now when all our young guys look back and add their VC stories.

Bembry: I was torn on him. Coming in I hated him. I didn’t wanna draft him. Then on some nights he plays like I have the wrong scouting report for the player I’m watching. But I think we’ve seen the ceiling on him, or close to it. He’s stifling us offensively.
 

Another you left off the list was  LEN. If we are grilling Jones and want him off, how much better of a player is Len? 
 

Our roster is : Trae, Collins, Huerter, Hunter, Cam and Bruno. We have 6 guys that should be on our roster moving forward barring an unforeseen trade.

 

[kg01]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Yes. Please trade Vince by Feb to a contending team. He’s done his job and then some. We won’t find out how good of a job he’s actually done until 4 or 5 years from now when all our young guys look back and add their VC stories.

Bembry: I was torn on him. Coming in I hated him. I didn’t wanna draft him. Then on some nights he plays like I have the wrong scouting report for the player I’m watching. But I think we’ve seen the ceiling on him, or close to it. He’s stifling us offensively.
 

Another you left off the list was  LEN. If we are grilling Jones and want him off, how much better of a player is Len? 
 

Our roster is : Trae, Collins, Huerter, Hunter, Cam and Bruno. We have 6 guys that should be on our roster moving forward barring an unforeseen trade.

 

Only reason Len escaped my wrath is because I see him as a backup, nothing more.  Absolutely nothing more than that.

I'm so done on Bembry it's not even funny.  The Thybulle kid for PHI is what Bembry is supposed to be.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Thybulle

No that’s Thabo! I stereotype players  

[AHF]

12 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Wait...I said all of this before the season and got chased off the site.  What gives?  I also added that a bad roster would lead to bad habits like Hero ball which is on full display right now.

[JTB]

12 hours ago, sillent said:

Are you looking at 2020 free agents or 2021? I know for sure Giannis is a 2021 free agent

We’re not getting Giannis here smh...we are going to miss out on help with pipe dreaming about a player who we have less than 1% chance of getting